Thai words for "thing"?

[SteveK]

Hi guys,

 

I wonder if someone can clarify something for me. I am confused about the Thai word for thing or things, e.g. when I catch 2 fish they say song dtua, when I buy a box of something is says x chin, and today when my neighbour came over with her daughter and I let our little dogs out she said song an.

 

What is the difference between these words?

[brokenbone]

an/chin/khon/toa/song/etc =piece, but they have a crapton of

classifiers,  i will never make this 100%, neither will you

[orchis]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Thai_classifiers

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, orchis said:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Thai_classifiers

That wasn't helpful.

[Damrongsak]

Thai classifier words ... have fun.

 

https://www.thailanguagehut.com/classifiers/

 

Here is a list of the 334 classifiers currently listed in our online dictionary, and the nouns they classify. For introductory information on classifers in the Thai language, please have a look at the reference page on Numeric Classifers.
 

http://www.thai-language.com/ref/classifier-list

 

 

[bluesofa]

13 minutes ago, SteveK said:

That wasn't helpful.

It's very daunting starting to try and work out about classifiers.

Nobody said it was easy to remember them though! Just don't worry about it too much.

 

Interesting someone has mentioned 334 classifiers. Over ten years ago I downloaded a list of 300+ as well.

I'm sure most Thais don't know the classifiers for a lot of items, so tend to sometimes use อัน an, or ตัว dtua, for example.

I thought I was pretty clever remembering elephants are เชือก chuuak, but looking at  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ช้าง#Thai  I can see there are four classifiers, depending on the type of elephant!

 

โขลง (klǒong)Herds of elephants

ช้าง (cháang)Government-registered elephants

เชือก (chʉ̂ʉak)Domesticated elephants

ตัว (dtuua)Wild elephants

 

[Sheryl]

An abusive post has been removed

[emptypockets]

Thing - farang.

[Damrongsak]

When I first came to Thailand, I heard Thais joking using the wrong classifiers a couple times.

 

One was an answer to a question about having any kids.  The guy's answer was something like "I have "song loog" (two balls).  Another time the guy referred to his two kids as "tua".  Another guy responding to a question about being married or not held up his hands and said he had two wives.  I forget how he phrased it and what classifier he used.  Classifiers can be fun.

[brokenbone]

when in doubt, use chin

[Damrongsak]

2 hours ago, brokenbone said:

when in doubt, use chin

Or ask. 

 

Ni (this) Ben (is) Arai (what)?  Chin, An, Loog, Lem or Arai?

[BritManToo]

11 hours ago, SteveK said:

That wasn't helpful.

If it has arms or legs ........Dtua

If it doesn't I generally just use ....... An

 

Two classifiers is enough for me.

[bluesofa]

39 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If it has arms or legs ........Dtua

If it doesn't I generally just use ....... An

 

Two classifiers is enough for me.

Dtua. Although you'd generally assume it's going to be an animal. A chair has arms and legs and appropriately uses dtua,

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, bluesofa said:

Dtua. Although you'd generally assume it's going to be an animal. A chair has arms and legs and appropriately uses dtua,

.......... and clothing.

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

4 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Dtua. Although you'd generally assume it's going to be an animal. A chair has arms and legs and appropriately uses dtua,

.......... and clothing.

Oh yes, trousers, shirts - more items with legs and arms ha ha!

[jackdd]

58 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If it has arms or legs ........Dtua

If it doesn't I generally just use ....... An

 

Two classifiers is enough for me.

Yes, this strategy works in many cases.

One should just add "khon" for persons, referring to them as dtua might either sound unintentionelly funny or maybe unpolite, depending on the situation.

The next step would be to use "chin" for food related things which are cut in pieces / slices (is correct for most of them, even though not all), and to know that "bottle" and "a glass" are a classifier, so that it's a simple "two bottle" and not "bottle two piece"

Edited August 13, 2019 by jackdd

[Damrongsak]

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If it has arms or legs ........Dtua

If it doesn't I generally just use ....... An

 

Two classifiers is enough for me.

Don't they call the cooked bull penis dish "Dtua dio an dio"?

[uhuh]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

 "bottle" and "a glass" are a classifier, so that it's a simple "two bottle" and not "bottle two piece"

Gaew(falling tone) as a noun means glass, the classifier for gaew is bai.

So "2 glasses" is gaew song bai (talking about empty glasses,  eg you are buying glasses for your kitchen in BigC).

 

Gaew as a classifier is the classifier for glasses of water,  beer etc (and cups of tea). So "2 beer" is bia song gaew.

 

Similar for bottle and other classifieds that are a measure.

[tgeezer]

Has anybody got a good explanation for the use of classifiers in Thai?   

 

 

[Jan Dietz]

- Everything has a classifier.

- There are some rules, but basically you'll just have to rote learn them.

- Usage is 'noun, amount, proper classifier.'

 

[Damrongsak]

5 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Has anybody got a good explanation for the use of classifiers in Thai?  

http://www.knowphuket.com/thai_language/L10_classifiers.htm

 

It seems like every language has its own peculiarities that frustrate new learners. English is one of the worst with its mass of irregular forms. In French every noun is male or female and in German there are 18 articles. The two major frustrations for learners of Thai are the tones and classifiers.

 

Classifiers are the words used to count objects. In Thai, you cannot count a noun, e.g. 'I have five dogs'. Instead you have to use a classifier.

 

The easiest way to describe this is it to compare it to the English concept of countable and non-countable nouns.

'Dog' is a countable noun - you can say 'I have five dogs'.

 

'Sand' is a non-countable noun - you cannot say 'I have five sands'. Instead you must say 'I have five grains of sand'. In this case 'grain' is the classifier.

 

'Grass' is a non-countable noun - you cannot say 'I have five grasses'. Instead you must say 'I have five blades of grass'. In this case 'blade' is the classifier.

 

In Thai, every noun is non-countable. So the problem is for every noun you want to count, you have to know its classifier.

[Andrew Dwyer]

http://www.knowphuket.com/thai_language/L10_classifiers.htm
 

It seems like every language has its own peculiarities that frustrate new learners. English is one of the worst with its mass of irregular forms. In French every noun is male or female and in German there are 18 articles. The two major frustrations for learners of Thai are the tones and classifiers.

 

Classifiers are the words used to count objects. In Thai, you cannot count a noun, e.g. 'I have five dogs'. Instead you have to use a classifier.

 

The easiest way to describe this is it to compare it to the English concept of countable and non-countable nouns.

'Dog' is a countable noun - you can say 'I have five dogs'.

 

'Sand' is a non-countable noun - you cannot say 'I have five sands'. Instead you must say 'I have five grains of sand'. In this case 'grain' is the classifier.

 

'Grass' is a non-countable noun - you cannot say 'I have five grasses'. Instead you must say 'I have five blades of grass'. In this case 'blade' is the classifier.

 

In Thai, every noun is non-countable. So the problem is for every noun you want to count, you have to know its classifier.

Excellent explanation, thanks.

[bluesofa]

As the wiki page seems very comprehensive, I couldn't but help look up this one, which I've heard my wife use when checking her two-year-old niece is 'regular' after using the toilet.

The classier for lumps, including you-know-what:  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ก้อน

 

[Slip]

20 hours ago, uhuh said:

Gaew(falling tone) as a noun means glass, the classifier for gaew is bai.

So "2 glasses" is gaew song bai (talking about empty glasses,  eg you are buying glasses for your kitchen in BigC).

 

Gaew as a classifier is the classifier for glasses of water,  beer etc (and cups of tea). So "2 beer" is bia song gaew.

 

Similar for bottle and other classifieds that are a measure.

This is tricky too.  Many a time I have heard Thais ordering beer with "gaew song bai".  E.g Do you want beer- yes please, 2 glasses- Gaew, song bai. or, What do you want to drink?- Beer "song gaew".

 

I wonder about the post that said 'luk' = balls.  To my mind, although it can mean balls it is also the classifier for the smaller version of things- as in child, or 'luk chin' as in small lump of (meat for e.g.)

I tend to follow the rule of if it's small nd you don't know you can use 'an', if it's cut up meat or the like 'chin', and if it has arms and legs or a body, 'dtua'.  That gives you time to learn the intricacies of the structure.  As poster Jan Dietz says it comes down to rote learning, but you do get a bit of a feel for it after time.

[Damrongsak]

4 hours ago, Slip said:

This is tricky too.  Many a time I have heard Thais ordering beer with "gaew song bai".  E.g Do you want beer- yes please, 2 glasses- Gaew, song bai. or, What do you want to drink?- Beer "song gaew".

An in Lao it can be just a bit different.  Sis-in-law got 5 bottles of beer instead of a bottle and 5 glasses in Vientiane.  Joh = glass and gaew meant a glass bottle of beer.  And SIL speaks Isaan - born and raised in Loei.  I'm sure SIL had no problem drinking the other 4 bottles.  

[Damrongsak]

4 hours ago, Slip said:

... I wonder about the post that said 'luk' = balls.  To my mind, although it can mean balls it is also the classifier for the smaller version of things- as in child, or 'luk chin' as in small lump of (meat for e.g.) ...

 

Right you are.  Same classifier, many uses including testicle jokes.

 

I asked my wife about "ball", as Thais refer to "luk bon" (ball).  She said they never had balls, and use the English word for ball.  (Great joke opportunity.)  They had takraw (balls) but didn't call them balls.

[tgeezer]

11 hours ago, Jan Dietz said:

 

 

 

The book ไวยาณ์ไทย by นววรรณ พันธุเมธา chapter ๕ คำขยาย which includes ลักษณนาม  and the other types of nouns makes things a lot easier. eg., ขวด is not a classifier in บเรยร์ ๓ ขวด its a measure, the classifier of ขวด is ใบ. 

ลักษณนาม are used to specify the noun. 

แก้ว glass / a glass/glasses  : 

แกวใบ the glass

แก้วใบนี้ this glass 

แก้วใบสีแดง  the red glass

แก้ว ๓ใบสีแดง three red glasses 

แก้วใบนี้ this glass.

 แก้วหลายใบ several glasses.

No classifier makes s generality. 

แก้วนี้ these types of glasses/glass of this type. 

นี้ นี่ นั้น นั่น etc. are interchangeable when used with a classifier but I used the third tone 

 These examples do not come from the book which is in Thai of course, these are just my thoughts so other opinions are welcome.   I don’t think that these things could be said without ลักษณนาม could they? 

[tgeezer]

  

On 8/13/2019 at 5:17 PM, Damrongsak said:

Don't they call the cooked bull penis dish "Dtua dio an dio"?

Never heard of it but I checked and apparently they do! 

 

หนุ่ม (noon) is a male over the age of about 15 or sometimes used to refer to someone who looks younger than they are, ดูยังหนุ่มอยู่ ( doo yang noom you) Hopefully we have all heard that! 

หนุมทั้งแท่ง( noom tang teng)is one word meaning bachelor(sic)

แท่ง (teng) is the classifier for solid cylindrical objects (sic) ดินสอ ๒แท่ง dinso 2 teng. also the obsolete word for penis. 

 

If you have the chance try replacing  ตัว or อัน with แท่ง ( dtua dio teng dio) It might get a laugh. 

Language has become more sanitised but the English “puts lead in your pencil” still means something to an English speaker so แทง should ‘make it’ with a Thai.    

edit: I use (sic) to give the impression that it is not my work so that any criticism can be kept impersonal.  

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by tgeezer

[gk10002000]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 7:13 PM, Damrongsak said:

Or ask. 

 

Ni (this) Ben (is) Arai (what)?  Chin, An, Loog, Lem or Arai?

I point and say "Ani arai".  Kind of means "what is that, or what is this".  At least I think it does!

[Slip]

3 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I point and say "Ani arai".  Kind of means "what is that, or what is this".  At least I think it does!

a ni- this one. Ni- this.  rising tone falling tone I think. 'That' would be 'na' as you say.