Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[fhickson]

i ate a cheap charlies tonight. decent food, prices and service.

 

what more are you looking for? someplace where regulars are there each time like the tv show cheers? or where they recognize you each time by name?

 

not sure how you could improve on cheap charlies price and food for the ham and spuds meal at 125 baht.

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Leaver said:

Any others restaurant / bars that you think will be closed in 6 to 12 months?

Rosie O'Gradys, Seasider, one or two of the English/Irish pub type places. Silver Star and Sexy Girls GGBs.

[sunnyboy2018]

20 hours ago, Leaver said:

Firstly, I am not a bar owner, and I am not particularly loyal to any establishment.  I frequent certain places regularly, but will I be lost if they closed tomorrow, no, but would I miss their food, service, and facilities, yes.

 

We all know things can change here very quickly, so I have already chosen some alternatives.  As I have said, it will be survival of fittest in the next 6 to 12 months.  Some will remain open, others will close. 

 

I doubt that for every 1 that closes, 2 more will open, as another member suggests.   I think there will be closures, which then leaves less variety and choice.  Of course, with such closures, the survivors become more busy.

 

Do you really think your example of Shabushi is indicative of restaurants in Pattaya?   How about posting about the 100 empty restaurants you walked past to get to Shabushi?  

I get your point that it's not your fault, or mine, nor should we care, that any, or all, of these 100 empty restaurants go broke and close. 

 

Perhaps my thread title should have simply been, "Do you know of any bars or restaurants that you have been to that you think will close soon?"

 

Perhaps my use of the word "favorite" in the thread title has drawn too much focus that it has to be one's "local." 

 

Your example of Shabushi is interesting.  Hypothetically, let's just say, for whatever reason, it closed tomorrow.  Haven't you then lost some choice, and variety, for your dining out here?   Where would you go to get a similar dining experience?  

 

Let's say bars like Billabong Bar and Triangle Bar closed tomorrow.  Both are larger bars, offering 2 for 1 drinks, with live music.  Where would the clientele from these bars go for a similar experience?

They could go to the bar on the corner a hundred yards away opposite sensations go go. And if that closed down they could go to a bar on Soi Buakao a hundred yards away. Basically there are too many bars in Pattaya and if 50 % went bust it would be a good thing. The easy formula of footie and hands up music is not enough. My annual visits to the UK in cities such as Bristol,  London and Manchester, where I drink in many pubs really bring home how awful Pattaya drinking holes are, smoky, sports obsessed,  migraine inducing  flickering glimmering screens and the worst kind of recycled UDM videos often featuring oleaginous black gay men in white string vests lisping nonsense to white girls. Thanks but no thanks.

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Rosie O'Gradys, Seasider, one or two of the English/Irish pub type places. Silver Star and Sexy Girls GGBs.

I would have thought Rosie's may have picked up with the closure of The Pig and Whistle.

 

I also believe a few English / Irish theme pubs will be wound up.  Sadly, some would have had a long history here. 

 

Some GoGo bars might close.  A bit hard to say which ones at the moment.   

Edited October 12, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

They could go to the bar on the corner a hundred yards away opposite sensations go go. And if that closed down they could go to a bar on Soi Buakao a hundred yards away. Basically there are too many bars in Pattaya and if 50 % went bust it would be a good thing.

Like I said, the Pattaya pie can only be cut into so many slices, but if 50% closed, we would all be losing a lot of choice and variety.

 

So, using the example, if Billabong Bar and Triangle Bar closed tomorrow, sure, customers can go elsewhere, but haven't they now lost some choice and variety? 

 

What if someone had been to the bar 100 yards away and didn't like it, but liked the Triangle Bar instead, for example. 

 

If Billabong or Triangle Bar closed, what establishment could accommodate the bands, and afford to employ them, which are big draw cards for those bars.

 

Once again, it's not doom and gloom.  For many reasons, from inside Thailand, and from outside Thailand, the next 6 to 12 months will really be survival of the fittest. 

 

It may be a surprise to some when some long standing bars, with a successful history, announce their closure, due to a decline in clientele, and a rise in expenses, which are both out of their control.   

 

 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

I would have thought Rosie's may have picked up with the closure of The Pig and Whistle.

They closed the main dining area  there for a short while, I thought for renovation but apparently not. One was expected to use the pool/ bar area.... there were kids running around and playing with the table  and balls  so I declined and didn't return for a few weeks. When I did they had moved the bar into the old dining area, and that was the sum total of the work, the former pool and bar area now closed off. It had not been renovated. It was open for business but without customers... 

Not sure what is planned, perhaps the old Pig and Whistle space can expand into the closed off areas. Anyhow, none of this was good for business. 

[shdmn]

13 hours ago, fhickson said:

i ate a cheap charlies tonight. decent food, prices and service.

 

what more are you looking for? someplace where regulars are there each time like the tv show cheers? or where they recognize you each time by name?

 

not sure how you could improve on cheap charlies price and food for the ham and spuds meal at 125 baht.

I have been going to Hungry Hippo just a little ways down the road from there. From what I have been told, Hippo food is a little better for about the same price.  Fairly big portions.

Edited October 12, 2019 by shdmn

[Ling Kae]

13 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It may be a surprise to some when some long standing bars, with a successful history, announce their closure, due to a decline in clientele, and a rise in expenses, which are both out of their control.   

 

 

No, it's not out of their control entirely. 

 

Rents maybe so but the decline in clientele I put down to 3 things.

 

1. The quality of their food has gone downhill. Usually because good chefs move on to a better paying jobs. They get tight (kee nee ow) small portions. Not like it use to be.

 

2. Their prices are too high. Ie: why pay 190 for a cottage pie when you can buy similar in another place for 129? 

 

3. Awful service by the staff. Ie: Can't speak English "no hab". Or playing with their phones whilst on duty. Not welcoming guests coming in, etc. 

 

If that happens to me at any of the restaurants I go to then I wouldn't go back. One of my favourite places I go into already have a large Leo in a condom with the top off as I walk in off the street. Best service I get anywhere in the world. 

 

The places that go broke either didn't secure a good long term lease at reasonable prices or refuse to move with the times or train their staff properly. Their problems not mine, plenty of choices in Pattaya, customers move on and their businesses fail.

 

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

No, it's not out of their control entirely. 

Add the unhygienic look of many places with dogs wandering about! 

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, jacko45k said:

They closed the main dining area  there for a short while, I thought for renovation but apparently not. One was expected to use the pool/ bar area.... there were kids running around and playing with the table  and balls  so I declined and didn't return for a few weeks. When I did they had moved the bar into the old dining area, and that was the sum total of the work, the former pool and bar area now closed off. It had not been renovated. It was open for business but without customers... 

Not sure what is planned, perhaps the old Pig and Whistle space can expand into the closed off areas. Anyhow, none of this was good for business. 

I haven't been in there for a while, but sounds like the death rattle for Rosie's.

[Leaver]

8 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

No, it's not out of their control entirely. 

 

Rents maybe so but the decline in clientele I put down to 3 things.

 

1. The quality of their food has gone downhill. Usually because good chefs move on to a better paying jobs. They get tight (kee nee ow) small portions. Not like it use to be.

 

2. Their prices are too high. Ie: why pay 190 for a cottage pie when you can buy similar in another place for 129? 

 

3. Awful service by the staff. Ie: Can't speak English "no hab". Or playing with their phones whilst on duty. Not welcoming guests coming in, etc. 

 

If that happens to me at any of the restaurants I go to then I wouldn't go back. One of my favourite places I go into already have a large Leo in a condom with the top off as I walk in off the street. Best service I get anywhere in the world. 

 

The places that go broke either didn't secure a good long term lease at reasonable prices or refuse to move with the times or train their staff properly. Their problems not mine, plenty of choices in Pattaya, customers move on and their businesses fail.

 

I agree with your post, but I was thinking more along the lines of less western tourists coming here now, meaning less clientele.  Certainly, this coming high season will be interesting for this.  I would see this out of the owner's control.

 

In regards to rents, I was thinking more about those unfortunate owners that have worked hard, and built up a loyal customer base, and run a good operation, only to have the greedy Thai landlord see how successful the business is, so raises the rent by a ridiculous amount, and an amount that the owner knows the business can not sustain.  These places are basically forced to charge 190 for a cottage pie, rather than 129 baht, and eventually close.

 

You are correct when you say if a dreamer comes here and straight away takes on a ridiculous lease, it's set up from the start to fail. 

 

In regards to service, I can handle little to no English, as everyone has to start somewhere, but certainly check bill and leave, once I have to start waving my arms in the air and / or calling out for another beer, because they are on their phones, or watching Thai TV.   This certainly is within the control of the owner. 

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Add the unhygienic look of many places with dogs wandering about! 

On hygiene, one thing I don't like is the sticky bar tops, or bar or restaurant tables.  They are sticky not from drinks or food that have been spilt on them.  They are sticky from the build up of grease from human skin, from people resting on them. 

 

When that happens, I ask for one of those disposable cold towels, wipe of my own forearms and elbows, then wipe the bar top or table where I want to rest my arms.

 

A lot of places don't use a cleaning agent, to break down human grease after every shift, and it builds up.

[fhickson]

5 hours ago, Leaver said:

I agree with your post, but I was thinking more along the lines of less western tourists coming here now, meaning less clientele.  Certainly, this coming high season will be interesting for this.  I would see this out of the owner's control.

 

In regards to rents, I was thinking more about those unfortunate owners that have worked hard, and built up a loyal customer base, and run a good operation, only to have the greedy Thai landlord see how successful the business is, so raises the rent by a ridiculous amount, and an amount that the owner knows the business can not sustain.  These places are basically forced to charge 190 for a cottage pie, rather than 129 baht, and eventually close.

 

You are correct when you say if a dreamer comes here and straight away takes on a ridiculous lease, it's set up from the start to fail. 

 

In regards to service, I can handle little to no English, as everyone has to start somewhere, but certainly check bill and leave, once I have to start waving my arms in the air and / or calling out for another beer, because they are on their phones, or watching Thai TV.   This certainly is within the control of the owner. 

why would the thai landlord raise the rent to something the bar could not handle?

 

just stupidity or is there some other reason this appears to often happen?

 

could be a prelude to forcing them out and finding a reason to keep the deposit;

 

or the presence of other interested parties who the landlord figures will pay more rent initially in their enthusiasm only to figure out they are losing money down the road, possibly even floating the place with their own money in the hopes business will improve and that money goes straight to the landlord. thats what new business owners tend to do who dont really know what they are doing.

Edited October 13, 2019 by fhickson

[wellred]

why would the thai landlord raise the rent to something the bar could not handle?
 
just stupidury or is there some other reason this appears to often happen?

This is a joke yes? Tonnes of bars in Phuket have closed partly because of this.

The answer to your question is because this is how the logic of the Thai works.

'I own leases for 10 bars. 5 bars close so for the rest I'll double the leases to make up the loss.'

[Ling Kae]

47 minutes ago, fhickson said:

why would the thai landlord raise the rent to something the bar could not handle?

 

just stupidity or is there some other reason this appears to often happen?

 

could be a prelude to forcing them out and finding a reason to keep the deposit;

 

There are other reasons. There is a group of 6 bars in a complex that I know of in Pattaya klang. One of them was successfully run by a farang for severals years. They basically charged 10 baht a beer less than the other Thai run bars and were getting most of the farang customers.

 

The Thai bar operators were jealous of his success. They then lobbied the land owner to force up his rent and he did. They all got together and forced him out. He closed up shop. Now they are all Thai run and all charge the same price. 

 

Being a farang puts you at a disadvantage all the time.  That's why I've never owned a bar here. 

[luckyluke]

41 minutes ago, wellred said:

how the logic of the Thai works.

After 19 years here, I still not understand it, because  I was educated and experienced it in a different way ( I am 71 ).

 

My Thai wife tell me often :

"Why do you think your logic is the only correct way ?

It may be in your western world, but not necessary in my Thailand "

 

She may have a point.

 

We often consider something as wrong, if we don't understand it. 

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

A lot of places don't use a cleaning agent, to break down human grease after every shift, and it builds up.

Yes, just the perfunctory wipe with a rather grimy damp cloth. 

[Ling Kae]

9 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, just the perfunctory wipe with a rather grimy damp cloth. 

Which sometimes they then use to clean glasses. Ever drank water out of a glass that stank? They were using the same rag for washing fry pans and wiping tables, not a good mix.

[fhickson]

4 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

There are other reasons. There is a group of 6 bars in a complex that I know of in Pattaya klang. One of them was successfully run by a farang for severals years. They basically charged 10 baht a beer less than the other Thai run bars and were getting most of the farang customers.

 

The Thai bar operators were jealous of his success. They then lobbied the land owner to force up his rent and he did. They all got together and forced him out. He closed up shop. Now they are all Thai run and all charge the same price. 

 

Being a farang puts you at a disadvantage all the time.  That's why I've never owned a bar here. 

i dont think id move into a string of bars all selling beer at the same price and undercut.. you do this and in no time everybodys selling at cost, or at a loss.

[wellred]

After 19 years here, I still not understand it, because  I was educated and experienced it in a different way ( I am 71 ).
 
My Thai wife tell me often :
"Why do you think your logic is the only correct way ?
It may be in your western world, but not necessary in my Thailand "
 
She may have a point.
 
We often consider something as wrong, if we don't understand it. 

Or maybe as they were never colonised they developed a super sized ego which leads them to not actually think through their business decisions and refuse to let anyone criticise them.

[luckyluke]

3 hours ago, wellred said:

and refuse to let anyone criticise them.

Many of us are convinced that  our common sense is the only right one. 

 

Critic or calling into question is out of question. 

 

At 71 and after ca. 20 years Thailand, I start to accept (but with difficulty) that our approach is maybe not the only true one, and that we may not been right, 

always/everywhere. 

 

[sunnyboy2018]

On 10/12/2019 at 4:13 AM, Leaver said:

Like I said, the Pattaya pie can only be cut into so many slices, but if 50% closed, we would all be losing a lot of choice and variety.

 

So, using the example, if Billabong Bar and Triangle Bar closed tomorrow, sure, customers can go elsewhere, but haven't they now lost some choice and variety? 

 

What if someone had been to the bar 100 yards away and didn't like it, but liked the Triangle Bar instead, for example. 

 

If Billabong or Triangle Bar closed, what establishment could accommodate the bands, and afford to employ them, which are big draw cards for those bars.

 

Once again, it's not doom and gloom.  For many reasons, from inside Thailand, and from outside Thailand, the next 6 to 12 months will really be survival of the fittest. 

 

It may be a surprise to some when some long standing bars, with a successful history, announce their closure, due to a decline in clientele, and a rise in expenses, which are both out of their control.   

 

 

If 50% closed We would NOT be losing a variety of choice. I repeat that the lazy formula of footie and hand sup music is NO CHOICE at all. Most Pattaya bars are undifferentiated,  mediocre,  lazy badly run, cliches. A sad reflection of their clientele. I can think of less than 10 well designed bars in Pattaya.....As for irish theme pubs! Just dreadful...a hangover from 70s Britain. And the constant drivel of black 'dance' music from the MTV charts have no place in a bar. Any bar that closes deserves to close for pandering to the lowest common denominator of entertainment......and driving out discerning customers with money. I view the closure of <deleted> bars as a protest and boycott which is finally beginning to bite. Some idiot bar owners think they must must let the bar girls dictate music policy to keep them happy!! <deleted>!

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, fhickson said:

why would the thai landlord raise the rent to something the bar could not handle?

 

Key Moneyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

If 50% closed We would NOT be losing a variety of choice. I repeat that the lazy formula of footie and hand sup music is NO CHOICE at all. Most Pattaya bars are undifferentiated,  mediocre,  lazy badly run, cliches. A sad reflection of their clientele. I can think of less than 10 well designed bars in Pattaya.....As for irish theme pubs! Just dreadful...a hangover from 70s Britain. And the constant drivel of black 'dance' music from the MTV charts have no place in a bar. Any bar that closes deserves to close for pandering to the lowest common denominator of entertainment......and driving out discerning customers with money. I view the closure of <deleted> bars as a protest and boycott which is finally beginning to bite. Some idiot bar owners think they must must let the bar girls dictate music policy to keep them happy!! <deleted>!

You are big on criticism, and small on details.

 

Name a couple of your favorite bars that do not fit into your description. 

[fhickson]

7 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Many of us are convinced that  our common sense is the only right one. 

 

Critic or calling into question is out of question. 

 

At 71 and after ca. 20 years Thailand, I start to accept (but with difficulty) that our approach is maybe not the only true one, and that we may not been right, 

always/everywhere. 

 

i do that to, but the reason i have learned to adapt is because i now dont care if the thais get screwed.

 

makes things a lot easier for me.

[chrisandsu]

Had a friend that thinks he’s a big shot in Pattaya , any new blood that would come to visit he would give them the grand tour of the bars and Gogos he owned . Show the new blood what a big man of the village he was , little did they know he was always priming them to ‘invest’ in his money making enterprises .... little did they know none were making any money and he was living off all the ‘investments’ his friends had made . None made even the smallest of money back and now nearly all of them to a man are back in the uk on the bones of their <deleted> ! While he is still in Pattaya living the dream ???? 

[shdmn]

8 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

If 50% closed We would NOT be losing a variety of choice. I repeat that the lazy formula of footie and hand sup music is NO CHOICE at all. Most Pattaya bars are undifferentiated,  mediocre,  lazy badly run, cliches. A sad reflection of their clientele. I can think of less than 10 well designed bars in Pattaya.....As for irish theme pubs! Just dreadful...a hangover from 70s Britain. And the constant drivel of black 'dance' music from the MTV charts have no place in a bar. Any bar that closes deserves to close for pandering to the lowest common denominator of entertainment......and driving out discerning customers with money. I view the closure of <deleted> bars as a protest and boycott which is finally beginning to bite. Some idiot bar owners think they must must let the bar girls dictate music policy to keep them happy!! <deleted>!

You seem to really hate Thailand.  Are you even here or do you even still come back?  If so why?  So you can keep complaining?

[SidJames]

23 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Had a friend that thinks he’s a big shot in Pattaya , any new blood that would come to visit he would give them the grand tour of the bars and Gogos he owned . Show the new blood what a big man of the village he was , little did they know he was always priming them to ‘invest’ in his money making enterprises .... little did they know none were making any money and he was living off all the ‘investments’ his friends had made . None made even the smallest of money back and now nearly all of them to a man are back in the uk on the bones of their <deleted> ! While he is still in Pattaya living the dream ???? 

I've heard of things like that on a few occasions here including the one where up to 20 people have been tricked into buying 10% each of the business.

[chrisandsu]

7 minutes ago, SidJames said:

I've heard of things like that on a few occasions here including the one where up to 20 people have been tricked into buying 10% each of the business.

Give enough of a carrot to anyone and they will bite . The fools will keep coming don’t you worry about that ????

[fhickson]

1 hour ago, chrisandsu said:

Had a friend that thinks he’s a big shot in Pattaya , any new blood that would come to visit he would give them the grand tour of the bars and Gogos he owned . Show the new blood what a big man of the village he was , little did they know he was always priming them to ‘invest’ in his money making enterprises .... little did they know none were making any money and he was living off all the ‘investments’ his friends had made . None made even the smallest of money back and now nearly all of them to a man are back in the uk on the bones of their <deleted> ! While he is still in Pattaya living the dream ???? 

classic...

 

for those who still fall for this sort of thing or who are new, just never talk about money/employment. i dont even discuss it with family these days.

 

write down a standard answer or response to the money/employment question on your smartphone and refer to it as needed, and the answer or change of subject becomes second nature. whomever is asking will get along just fine without your info!