Details of mandatory health insurance for Non-Imm O-A visas to be announced next week

[emptypockets]

5 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

 

Maybe a bit more if it is to cover pre-existing conditions, and ongoing management of conditions that will pop up. Maybe as much as 100,000 per year. I'd be happy enough to pay that sort of figure if it is comprehansive.

It's all about risk for the insurer. 100,000 baht may be OK for a fifty year old,  but what about a 75 or 80 year old? They could easily have claims into the multi millions as they near end of life. Insurance companies are neither charities nor stupid.  They are businesses with shareholders who want a return on funds invested. Keep dreaming. 

The amount of data available to insurance companies is staggering with statistics going back a hundred years or more,  they know what risk and return is. 

Can you imagine the potential influx of expats arriving for cheap, insured, medical treatment? It would overwhelm the system. 

Expecting the Government (I. e.  the Thai people)  to subsidise foreigners medical care is equally ludicrous. 

If a universal requirement for insurance is introduced then many people may have problems.  You are no longer in the nanny state. That is the harsh reality. We can keep posting suggestions of what would suit us, but that is irrelevant to the issue.

Welcome to the real world. 

[tropo]

On 8/19/2019 at 4:41 AM, Number 6 said:

I was taken by a hospital to an ATM machine quite literally. If I said I couldn't pay no idea how that would have ended.

Or if you didn't have a card on you. Some people don't plan everything before they end up in hospital sick or injured.

 

I'm sure they wouldn't have dragged you to a prison cell to wait for payment or put you back in a hospital ward and increase your bill. There is nothing they could have done. They were strong-arming you and it worked. That's no way to treat someone who has just been in hospital. Obviously Thailand's "over 1 billion baht" 3-year unpaid medical bills suggests they just end up losing it if they cannot collect payment.

 

They should stop crying about this and realise it's the cost of doing (tourism) business. It's a drop in the ocean compared to their profits from the industry. Any major efforts will just cause a drop in tourism. Tourists and expats have choices and won't bother with Thailand if the requirements become too expensive or complicated. I'm sure the people (politicians) crying about this problem aren't short of a penny because of it. 

[Melbun]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

Or if you didn't have a card on you. Some people don't plan everything before they end up in hospital sick or injured.

 

I'm sure they wouldn't have dragged you to a prison cell to wait for payment or put you back in a hospital ward and increase your bill. There is nothing they could have done. They were strong-arming you and it worked. That's no way to treat someone who has just been in hospital. Obviously Thailand's "over 1 billion baht" 3-year unpaid medical bills suggests they just end up losing it if they cannot collect payment.

 

They should stop crying about this and realise it's the cost of doing (tourism) business. It's a drop in the ocean compared to their profits from the industry. Any major efforts will just cause a drop in tourism. Tourists and expats have choices and won't bother with Thailand if the requirements become too expensive or complicated. I'm sure the people (politicians) crying about this problem aren't short of a penny because of it. 

Are you trying to be humorous?? If all the expats left they would rub their hand in glee - mission accomplished!! There would be millions of tourists spending money  on night life, shopping, food, accommodation. All the authorities have to do is insist on travel insurance (which any sane tourist does anyhow).

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, Melbun said:

MG - "should's" & "ought to's". Like a bunch of wet hen's expecting miracles or a sympathetic foreign government. What are older geezers (and not so old), with chronic illnesses doing in a foreign, hostile country that doesn't want you there. Advice: that you don't want to hear. Get out and go back to your home country. You're time is over. Can't you all take a not so broad hint.

I am home- I have no intentions of going back to my country of birth so stop your miserable whining.  According to your narrative everyone who is 'old'  should simply get out or  commit suicide so they won't be a burden  on the Government.  You might want to consider the morality of your comments and the utter cruelty they represent.

 

Thailand years ago committed it's country to tourism by making its Visa regime very easy and  overtly seeking  long stay expats and millions of tourists.  They have made billions from it.  They are not losing a single satang from this. The real cause of the insurance conundrum is that for profit insurance and medical facilities want to make  huge profits off the misery of everyone who is ill- young and elderly.

 

Healthcare is a human right- everyone has a right to live.  Just because you don\t believe this doesn\t change the facts- It is a reality enshrined in every Constitution ever written- including the Thas'.

[Melbun]

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I am home- I have no intentions of going back to my country of birth so stop your miserable whining.  According to your narrative everyone who is 'old'  should simply get out or  commit suicide so they won't be a burden  on the Government.  You might want to consider the morality of your comments and the utter cruelty they represent.

 

Thailand years ago committed it's country to tourism by making its Visa regime very easy and  overtly seeking  long stay expats and millions of tourists.  They have made billions from it.  They are not losing a single satang from this. The real cause of the insurance conundrum is that for profit insurance and medical facilities want to make  huge profits off the misery of everyone who is ill- young and elderly.

 

Healthcare is a human right- everyone has a right to live.  Just because you don\t believe this doesn\t change the facts- It is a reality enshrined in every Constitution ever written- including the Thas'.

Hi Mate. You seem upset and kind of crazy. I have never mentioned in my narrative anything about suicide. You just have.I'm not whining. Just stating facts you and others don't want hear. Look you can use all the emotive words VIZ "healthcare is a human right" you want, but it doesn't change facts. You must take out compulsory health insurance. It's the law of the land. The land you say you have chosen to be your home. Now bright spark (also angry spark) - what do you propose? Do you have a solution? - or do you want the Thai's to make special allowances for cruddy, diseased old folk that can't get insurance or can't afford it ??

Edited August 20, 2019 by Melbun

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Melbun said:

Hi Mate. You seem upset. I'm not whining. Just stating facts you and others don't want hear. Look you can use all the emotive words VIZ "healthcare is a human right" you want, but it doesn't change facts. You must take out compulsory health insurance. It's the law of the land. The land you say you have chosen to be your home. Now bright spark (also angry spark) - what do you propose? Do you have a solution? - or do you want the Thai's to make special allowances for cruddy, diseased old folk that can't get insurance or can't afford it ??

First of all I want you to stop denigrating the elderly with your rhetoric and speak to us who  are elderly with respect and then maybe someone might listen to you.

 

As far as a solution- I nor anyone wants Thailand to take care of me- but I am against the  for profit insurance industry beinbg tasked with  providing policies that are high priced and little coverage. While I can afford them- I dont want them- they are worthless.

 

The solution is simple- anyone with a one year extension of stay should be able to buy into the Thai Social Security scheme- at the same rate as Thais with a percentage added as a co-payment.

 

Anyone with less than a one year extension- either purchases travel insurance or theeir is a surcharge of 500- 1000 Baht added to their entry and or ticket.  Now- where\s your solution.

 

 

[CharlieH]

Let's keep it civil please.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.
 

[Melbun]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

First of all I want you to stop denigrating the elderly with your rhetoric and speak to us who  are elderly with respect and then maybe someone might listen to you.

 

As far as a solution- I nor anyone wants Thailand to take care of me- but I am against the  for profit insurance industry beinbg tasked with  providing policies that are high priced and little coverage. While I can afford them- I dont want them- they are worthless.

 

The solution is simple- anyone with a one year extension of stay should be able to buy into the Thai Social Security scheme- at the same rate as Thais with a percentage added as a co-payment.

 

Anyone with less than a one year extension- either purchases travel insurance or theeir is a surcharge of 500- 1000 Baht added to their entry and or ticket.  Now- where\s your solution.

 

 

We have been warned by the Moderator. This is my final word.

Any business - even the healthcare industry is in business to make a profit. And especially so - with "the elderly" that would more than likely need to use it and more than likely would have per-exisiing illnesses. As for the should happen or ought to happen. That's a matter of opinion and the law of the land rules irrespective - even if expats don't like it. You make your own choices. Bye

[Thaidream]

20 minutes ago, Melbun said:

We have been warned by the Moderator. This is my final word.

Any business - even the healthcare industry is in business to make a profit. And especially so - with "the elderly" that would more than likely need to use it and more than likely would have per-exisiing illnesses. As for the should happen or ought to happen. That's a matter of opinion and the law of the land rules irrespective - even if expats don't like it. You make your own choices. Bye

You  finally got the point.... 

[rabas]

5 hours ago, Melbun said:

OMG - "should's" & "ought to's". Like a bunch of wet hen's expecting miracles or a sympathetic foreign government. What are older geezers (and not so old), with chronic illnesses doing in a foreign, hostile country that doesn't want you there. Advice: that you don't want to hear. Get out and go back to your home country. You're time is over. Can't you all take a not so broad hint.

 

You seem to understand little about Thailand and the many types of people residing here under different circumstances, nor how Thai immigration really works. While you may wish to follow your own advice, it's not appropriate for the general public as a rule.

 

[Melbun]

36 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

You seem to understand little about Thailand and the many types of people residing here under different circumstances, nor how Thai immigration really works. While you may wish to follow your own advice, it's not appropriate for the general public as a rule.

 

We shall see how the Thai government and Immigration works in the next few months. Although you purport to be more knowledgeable on these matters - It's my feeling a lot of expats will willingly or compulsorily return to their former places of abode. The writing is on the wall gents. Although many can't accept or see that.

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, Melbun said:

The writing is on the wall gents

Also expressed as The writing is on the wall - "Gents"

[Carolina Reaper]

On 8/18/2019 at 7:01 PM, wgdanson said:

I just did Cigna Close Care, 71 years old, Bht 12M cover, £3131 premium = 125,000 Bht. Coronary or stroke covered.

Organ transplants are not covered and kidney dialysis coverage limited. I wonder how those costs compare with their Silver plan....

[wgdanson]

20 minutes ago, Carolina Reaper said:

Organ transplants are not covered and kidney dialysis coverage limited. I wonder how those costs compare with their Silver plan....

If I needed a transplant I would be back to UK to get one of the correct make!   LOL

 

And yes, dialysis would be classed as outpatient treatment so if I need it....off to the ATM.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by wgdanson

[Melbun]

4 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

If I needed a transplant I would be back to UK to get one of the correct make!   LOL

 

But many say you won't be covered under NHS (unless you privately fund) or you go back well ahead of time to re-qualify

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, Melbun said:

But many say you won't be covered under NHS (unless you privately fund) or you go back well ahead of time to re-qualify

And I know quite a few expats who have gone back to UK, not having seen their GP for years, and said to him 'Oh I have a pain here' and are not asked about their past few years. Off to hospital they go. OK, a permanent/relative's address, and a UK bank account, and a lost passport would help.

[Melbun]

4 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

And I know quite a few expats who have gone back to UK, not having seen their GP for years, and said to him 'Oh I have a pain here' and are not asked about their past few years. Off to hospital they go. OK, a permanent/relative's address, and a UK bank account, and a lost passport would help.

 

4 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

And I know quite a few expats who have gone back to UK, not having seen their GP for years, and said to him 'Oh I have a pain here' and are not asked about their past few years. Off to hospital they go. OK, a permanent/relative's address, and a UK bank account, and a lost passport would help.

Almost worth a "holiday" to the UK every so often to touch base with the doctor about a pain here and there :). Just to keep current.

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You may need to develop a thicker skin if you are to keep posting here.

 

 

Thai Visa is not a Nanny state..........

Neither is Thailand hence this discussion about insurance.  The people who call for entry into the Thai system is based on what criterion? 

Can't afford private so the Thai taxpayer should subsidise? 

Have these people ever travelled outside farang enclaves and seen how many Thais live. Most haven't got two-bit to rub together and struggle to buy their kids school uniforms. You really expect them to support subsidised health care for foreigners? 

Keep dreaming! 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Neither is Thailand hence this discussion about insurance.  The people who call for entry into the Thai system is based on what criterion? 

Can't afford private so the Thai taxpayer should subsidise? 

Have these people ever travelled outside farang enclaves and seen how many Thais live. Most haven't got two-bit to rub together and struggle to buy their kids school uniforms. You really expect them to support subsidised health care for foreigners? 

Keep dreaming! 

Think the multi-million yearly tourists are putting a lot of dosh into the LOS system that never see the inside of a LOS hozzy.....

[Jip99]

52 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Neither is Thailand hence this discussion about insurance.  The people who call for entry into the Thai system is based on what criterion? 

Can't afford private so the Thai taxpayer should subsidise? 

Have these people ever travelled outside farang enclaves and seen how many Thais live. Most haven't got two-bit to rub together and struggle to buy their kids school uniforms. You really expect them to support subsidised health care for foreigners? 

Keep dreaming! 

 

 

Not sure if you are just trolling............. but yourreply does not match my post...

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

And I know quite a few expats who have gone back to UK, not having seen their GP for years, and said to him 'Oh I have a pain here' and are not asked about their past few years. Off to hospital they go. OK, a permanent/relative's address, and a UK bank account, and a lost passport would help.

 

 

Never been asked to show a passport (I understand the lost passport tactic ????).

 

 

I make a point of calling in to see my doctor (or 'well nurse') on any of my visits. Just had a hernia referral and at the hospital there is a self check in process where one of the questions is "have you lived in the UK for at least 6 months"....       1956 I started living there so that was a "yes".

[Melbun]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Think the multi-million yearly tourists are putting a lot of dosh into the LOS system that never see the inside of a LOS hozzy.....

That's not the point. Expats is the key word. Expats  are the ones flapping around enjoying the spoils of Thailand and a hand out because they are too old to be insurable.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Melbun

[Melbun]

24 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Never been asked to show a passport (I understand the lost passport tactic ????).

 

 

I make a point of calling in to see my doctor (or 'well nurse') on any of my visits. Just had a hernia referral and at the hospital there is a self check in process where one of the questions is "have you lived in the UK for at least 6 months"....       1956 I started living there so that was a "yes".

Oh dear !! A little white lie OR a big porkie.

[Jip99]

13 minutes ago, Melbun said:

Oh dear !! A little white lie OR a big porkie.

 

Factually correct.....????

[transam]

34 minutes ago, Melbun said:

That's not the point. Expats is the key word. Expats  are the ones flapping around enjoying the spoils of Thailand and a hand out because they are too old to be insurable.

And there are no Thais in farangland getting taken care of eh...?

[thaiboss]

ITS 60.000 thia bhat per year and you not 100% cover in case you have fatal accident or ill

[Thaidream]

3 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Neither is Thailand hence this discussion about insurance.  The people who call for entry into the Thai system is based on what criterion? 

Can't afford private so the Thai taxpayer should subsidise? 

Have these people ever travelled outside farang enclaves and seen how many Thais live. Most haven't got two-bit to rub together and struggle to buy their kids school uniforms. You really expect them to support subsidised health care for foreigners? 

Keep dreaming! 

Your perspective is not correct.  I have been around Thailand for 50 years and when I first married my Thai wife- we went to the USA on a marriage visa.  At that time, upon entry, she received permanent residence; she was eligible for any medical care that US citizens received and could do anything but vote to include puchasing  propeerty.

 

Now lets look at Thailand for those married to a Thai citizen and obtain a marriage extension or Visa. We get nothing  except the Visa/permission to stay- there is no reciprocity. We cannnot get Social Security or get into the system; we cannot pruchase land; we have no rights.

 

I don't even expect to get full reciprocity in Thailand but I want some recognition that since my spouse gets almost all the rights US taxpayers have- Thailand can at least allow me to  buy into their  Social Security system- even if they want to add a surcharge on me.

 

I fully understand that the Thai economy is not the same as a Western country but I am not asking for the 30 Baht scheme which allows poor Thais to get no cost medical care.  I simply want the same thing that we Americans (and also the British etc) give to Thais who marry and come to our home countries.

 

By doing this and also have a category for single retirees in Thailand- there will be a huge boost in the Thai medical fund and a surplus that can be used to fund the Government hospital system which is underfunded due to mismangement of the Thai budget. If a foreigner wants to use the private hospital system- they can pay the added surcharge.  This is a win-win system for all instead of a lose-lose situation which is being proposed.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Thaidream

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Melbun said:

That's not the point. Expats is the key word. Expats  are the ones flapping around enjoying the spoils of Thailand and a hand out because they are too old to be insurable.

Absolute nonsense- no foreigner is taking the <deleted> on Thailand-except possibly tourists who come in for 30 days on exempt or tourist Visas and get into accidents- have no travel insurance and end up in the hospital and can't pay the bills.

In 50 years- I do not know one long term resident who cannot pay for their medical care and they can also be insured- The premium is hig  but that is because there is a lack ofr any comptetive pricing as the Thai Government limits the number of insurance companies.  If anything- it is the Thai system as it relates to foreigners taking the <deleted>.

 

 

 

[Melbun]

33 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Absolute nonsense- no foreigner is taking the <deleted> on Thailand-except possibly tourists who come in for 30 days on exempt or tourist Visas and get into accidents- have no travel insurance and end up in the hospital and can't pay the bills.

In 50 years- I do not know one long term resident who cannot pay for their medical care and they can also be insured- The premium is hig  but that is because there is a lack ofr any comptetive pricing as the Thai Government limits the number of insurance companies.  If anything- it is the Thai system as it relates to foreigners taking the <deleted>.

 

 

 

You are in their country buster - suck it up. You are not a citizen - just a long term guest. Keep dreamin' Thaidream. Oh and BTW "you do not know one long term resident that hasn't paid" ??? Wow you must be really popular and are privy to the business of ALL long term residents eh ??

[Thaidream]

21 minutes ago, Melbun said:

You are in their country buster - suck it up. You are not a citizen - just a long term guest. Keep dreamin' Thaidream. Oh and BTW "you do not know one long term resident that hasn't paid" ??? Wow you must be really popular and are privy to the business of ALL long term residents eh ??

Nor was my wife a Thai citizern when we lived in America. She had all the rights and peivledges of the US system to include healthcare .  I don't have to be a citizen in Thailand to be treated fairly and equitably. Even the Thai constitution  indicates equal treatment to all.

 

I don;t have to know all foreign residents but after 5 decades of living  and being conversant in Thai- I would have heard about a massive amount of long stayers that would hgave caused problems.  I never heard of one. There may be a small amount but generally speaking when a long stayer  gets a catastrphic illness they return home for treatment to their own country as all Western countries (except USA) have a universal no cost healthscheme.

 

The whole purpose of  insurance is to form a pool in whcih all ages are part of the pool and if mandatory- everyone- regardless of age is placed in the pool and  that spreads the risk and cost across  large numbers of people. In addition- if insurance is mandatory- it must be offered to everyone; there can be no pre conditions or exclusions.

 

In the Thai system- the risk is not spread across all age groups; there are exclcusions , the cost is high and the coverage low.  It is simply a program to make money for the insurance companies and their board members and shareholders.

 

This is about fairness for all; reciprocity for foreigners and  being treated and respected as a human being.  If you can't see that- you will continue to be exploited but at least I know when I am being exploited.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Thaidream