Does permanent residency always require fluency in Thai?

[KhunFred]

I had been led to believe that one could only get Permanent Residency if one were fluent in Thai. Several posts on other media have suggested otherwise. Any advice appreciated.

[ubonjoe]

Fluency in Thai is not a requirement to get PR. You only have to pass a verbal exam on your abilities.

But you do have have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years.

[elviajero]

No, you don’t need to be fluent. You just need to answer simple conversational questions. 

[KhunFred]

Obviously, permanent residency is not available to retirees. I do not plan to work again, unless I am forced to return to the USA.

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, KhunFred said:

Obviously, permanent residency is not available to retirees. I do not plan to work again, unless I am forced to return to the USA.

It is available to retirees. You can apply on the basis of investment.

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thai-permanent-residency-category-investment/

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It is available to retirees. You can apply on the basis of investment.

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thai-permanent-residency-category-investment/

I think we need to hear from retirees who have actually attempted it given that a number of people in other threads are asserting that its availability is only theoretical for anyone who hasn't worked in Thailand

[Greyhat]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

You just need to answer simple conversational questions. 

Anyone have some examples of this? Just out of curiosity.

[thedemon]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It is available to retirees. You can apply on the basis of investment.

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thai-permanent-residency-category-investment/

 

We've been through this before, haven't we?

 

You can apply on the basis of investment but you will still need to have had a work permit and paid tax for the past 3 years the same as applying based on employment. Therefore it is a useless category.

 

I know this because I tried to apply under the investment category and the PR department at Immigration told me that though they would accept the application, I was just making it harder for myself because as well as having to pass the normal criteria, the investment itself would come under scrutiny.

 

Posting links like that just helps to spread their misinformation. 

[elviajero]

23 minutes ago, thedemon said:

We've been through this before, haven't we?

 

You can apply on the basis of investment but you will still need to have had a work permit and paid tax for the past 3 years the same as applying based on employment. Therefore it is a useless category.

 

I know this because I tried to apply under the investment category and the PR department at Immigration told me that though they would accept the application, I was just making it harder for myself because as well as having to pass the normal criteria, the investment itself would come under scrutiny.

 

Posting links like that just helps to spread their misinformation. 

I'd rather trust the information from a long established reputable law firm - and my own experience - than misinformation spread by forums.

 

You do not need to have had a work permit if applying under investment rules. It is an entirely different criteria than someone applying based on employment.

 

[elviajero]

58 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I think we need to hear from retirees who have actually attempted it given that a number of people in other threads are asserting that its availability is only theoretical for anyone who hasn't worked in Thailand

They only grant 100 resident permits per year per nationality. I don't know how many applications they get each year, or how they prioritise - but this repeated assertion that an applicant based on investment needs to have a work permit and worked for three years is wrong.

[thequietman]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Fluency in Thai is not a requirement to get PR. You only have to pass a verbal exam on your abilities.

But you do have have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years.

on a minimum of 40,000 baht a month.

[Froggybanrai]

On 8/26/2019 at 3:51 PM, elviajero said:

It is available to retirees. You can apply on the basis of investment.

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thai-permanent-residency-category-investment/

You can also apply based on what is generally translated as "Humanitarian reason". That includes supporting your (legal) wife (see attachement 2.3.1 Spouse: To provide patronage or to be under patronage of a Thai national spouse).

Criterion_and_conditions_en.pdf

[justin case]

On 8/26/2019 at 3:51 PM, elviajero said:

It is available to retirees. You can apply on the basis of investment.

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thai-permanent-residency-category-investment/

funny how Samut immigration denied my an investment visa while I had proof of 10 M on fixed deposit amount, but it is a <deleted>hole after all

[SteveB2]

On 8/26/2019 at 3:02 PM, ubonjoe said:

Fluency in Thai is not a requirement to get PR. You only have to pass a verbal exam on your abilities.

But you do have have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years.

True, but...

 

Thai language fluency is included in the 'Assessment testing for the suitability of the issuance of Permanent Residency'

 

This is physical booklet/pamphlet used by the CW PR team (I have seen it and have read through several pages myself, with my assessor, during my own recent PR application process)

 

PR assessment uses a very similar scoring system as the assessment process for the issuance of Thai Citizenship. 

 

The current scoring system for language skills is something like this from what I remember:-

 

•      1 point      can answer some simple questions. 
•      2 points     Basic Conversational ability
•      3 points     Advanced conversational ability plus some read/write capability.
•      4 points     Advanced conversational speaker plus full read/write fluency. Can sing the national anthem.
•      5 points     Professional/Business Thai spoken proficiency.  Full read/write fluency. Can sing the national anthem and the kings song

 

As with everything else in the PR application - things are not black and white.

 

PR application is different to all other Visa application processes you may have previously completed.

 

The PR application process is based on a scoring system, NOT on a minimum requirement system.

 

So if your Thai language capabilities are feeble, you will need to make up for this with high scores in other areas, such as a massive 250K/month salary and a few million Baht cash in the bank, a PhD, 20 years marriage to your Thai wife, supporting 3 Thai genetically related children, running a BOI company with 100 staff, no over-stays in your passport, etc.

 

The Thai citizenship test scoring system is on the web somewhere - 'Google is your friend' - search for it in Thai language if it don't turm up in English.

 

You'll need to average 50% across all the scoring criteria before being permitted to show your face in front of the videoed assessment board interview, made up of all the top brass from the different Thai ministries that assess all Thai PR applicants.

 

The whole PR application was so daunting and intimidating, plus it was such a time and money vampire, that in the end I didn't care anymore... then it was suddenly all over.

 

I failed 4 times and was successful on the 5th PR application.

 

I hope this information helps. Cheers.  

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by SteveB2
Paragraph duplication, spelling and grammar. grrr!

[watcharacters]

12 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

The whole PR application was so daunting and intimidating, plus it was such a time and money vampire, that in the end I didn't care anymore... then it was suddenly all over.

 

Based on your experience and knowing what you know about it today, would you recommend it to others?

 

[Max69xl]

On 8/26/2019 at 3:54 PM, ThaiBunny said:

I think we need to hear from retirees who have actually attempted it given that a number of people in other threads are asserting that its availability is only theoretical for anyone who hasn't worked in Thailand

Have you ever tried using Google? You can find the answer there in 30 seconds with a proper search phrase.

[Orton Rd]

I suspect there are people who know people where you can pay without going through all the hassle, and where you do not meet the requirements of paying tax for three years?

[samran]

On 8/26/2019 at 4:52 PM, elviajero said:

I'd rather trust the information from a long established reputable law firm - and my own experience - than misinformation spread by forums.

 

You do not need to have had a work permit if applying under investment rules. It is an entirely different criteria than someone applying based on employment.

 

So you’ve gotten PR without needing a work permit? Interesting.

 

do you have a link to where you’ve spoken about this before? I’d be interested to read more.

[emptypockets]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 3:41 PM, Greyhat said:

Anyone have some examples of this? Just out of curiosity.

I got interviewed by some high school girls obviously doing some survey or whatever as part of their studies in the local Lotus shopping centre.  After some nervous giggling one was pushed to the front, and, looking at her questions on a piece of paper, asked me if I knew any Thai. As one who always encourages education in any form I answered in my best fluent Thai...Beer Chang, Krong Thip and nam keng esip baht (i'm in isaan).

They wandered off, never to approach a farang again I fear.

[Alex2554]

conditions and requirements are here,  https://www.immigration.go.th/faq_detail?id=58a40c2a43ce2750a4874b99

Section 1.4 means that person applying for PR have to speak, listen and understand Thai.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Alex2554

[Orton Rd]

That's no help, it's all in Thai! ????

[scorecard]

On 8/26/2019 at 4:59 PM, elviajero said:

They only grant 100 resident permits per year per nationality. I don't know how many applications they get each year, or how they prioritise - but this repeated assertion that an applicant based on investment needs to have a work permit and worked for three years is wrong.

The maximum limit is 100 PR approvals per year per country*, the actual approvals is often way under the maximum limit. 

 

* Some years back it was 100 maximum for some specific countries and 50 for other countries but maybe it's now 100 for every country. 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, samran said:

So you’ve gotten PR without needing a work permit? Interesting.

 

do you have a link to where you’ve spoken about this before? I’d be interested to read more.

I didn’t say that.

[elviajero]

50 minutes ago, scorecard said:

The maximum limit is 100 PR approvals per year per country*, the actual approvals is often way under the maximum limit. 

 

* Some years back it was 100 maximum for some specific countries and 50 for other countries but maybe it's now 100 for every country. 

Immigration Act.

Section 40 : Subject to the provisions of Section 42, 43 and 51 , the Minister , by the approval of the Cabinet , shall have power to publish , in the Government Gazette , immigration quotas from year to year ( not exceeding 100 persons per year from each country and not exceeding 50 persons who have no nationality ).
For the purpose of fixing immigration quotas , all the colonies of a country or each self – governing country shall be recognized as one country

[scorecard]

38 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Immigration Act.

Section 40 : Subject to the provisions of Section 42, 43 and 51 , the Minister , by the approval of the Cabinet , shall have power to publish , in the Government Gazette , immigration quotas from year to year ( not exceeding 100 persons per year from each country and not exceeding 50 persons who have no nationality ).
For the purpose of fixing immigration quotas , all the colonies of a country or each self – governing country shall be recognized as one country

My post (# 22) is based on the specific words of the Immigration officer who interviewed me after I applied for PR, he spoke very very advanced English, in fact he conducted the whole interview / discussion in English.

 

I have mentioned previously that this was around 24 years ago.

 

The Imm. officer mentioned this point (100 / 50) specifically in response to an aligned question from the agent who was guiding me and who was fairly new to PR and was taking advantage of the interview / discussion to build his knowledge. 

 

Did I check the government gazette or any other official documents to confirm the 100 /50 response from the Imm. officer? No. 

 

 

[tomazbodner]

10 years back interview was in formal Thai. Videotaped. About 10-12 member panel all in uniforms displaying lots of decorations. But it was all verbal. No written test. Don't know how they applied points, but it ended up being a very nice conversation with the most decorated guy in the room.

[scoutman360]

9 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

 

The whole PR application was so daunting and intimidating, plus it was such a time and money vampire, that in the end I didn't care anymore... then it was suddenly all over.

 

I failed 4 times and was successful on the 5th PR application.

 

This comment says it all. Thank you. Thailand doesn't want our money. Singapore loves it, and we can see the difference. Thailand can remain 3rd world if they want.

[Jane Dough]

On 8/26/2019 at 4:11 PM, Greyhat said:

Anyone have some examples of this? Just out of curiosity.

I was asked how many days are there in a week.

 

I just sneaked in....

 

Rooster

[Fairynuff]

14 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

True, but...

 

Thai language fluency is included in the 'Assessment testing for the suitability of the issuance of Permanent Residency'

 

This is physical booklet/pamphlet used by the CW PR team (I have seen it and have read through several pages myself, with my assessor, during my own recent PR application process)

 

PR assessment uses a very similar scoring system as the assessment process for the issuance of Thai Citizenship. 

 

The current scoring system for language skills is something like this from what I remember:-

 

•      1 point      can answer some simple questions. 
•      2 points     Basic Conversational ability
•      3 points     Advanced conversational ability plus some read/write capability.
•      4 points     Advanced conversational speaker plus full read/write fluency. Can sing the national anthem.
•      5 points     Professional/Business Thai spoken proficiency.  Full read/write fluency. Can sing the national anthem and the kings song

 

As with everything else in the PR application - things are not black and white.

 

PR application is different to all other Visa application processes you may have previously completed.

 

The PR application process is based on a scoring system, NOT on a minimum requirement system.

 

So if your Thai language capabilities are feeble, you will need to make up for this with high scores in other areas, such as a massive 250K/month salary and a few million Baht cash in the bank, a PhD, 20 years marriage to your Thai wife, supporting 3 Thai genetically related children, running a BOI company with 100 staff, no over-stays in your passport, etc.

 

The Thai citizenship test scoring system is on the web somewhere - 'Google is your friend' - search for it in Thai language if it don't turm up in English.

 

You'll need to average 50% across all the scoring criteria before being permitted to show your face in front of the videoed assessment board interview, made up of all the top brass from the different Thai ministries that assess all Thai PR applicants.

 

The whole PR application was so daunting and intimidating, plus it was such a time and money vampire, that in the end I didn't care anymore... then it was suddenly all over.

 

I failed 4 times and was successful on the 5th PR application.

 

I hope this information helps. Cheers.  

 

 

Full marks to you for your dedication and perseverance. 

[Fairynuff]

12 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

That's no help, it's all in Thai! ????

Your application has been denied.