Does permanent residency always require fluency in Thai?

[davidst01]

On 8/26/2019 at 3:02 PM, ubonjoe said:

Fluency in Thai is not a requirement to get PR. You only have to pass a verbal exam on your abilities.

But you do have have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years.

I quit from my teaching job 2 yrs ago. Had a WP for 4 yrs. Can I apply now at this late stage or does one have to be currently working?

thanks

[ubonjoe]

51 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

Can I apply now at this late stage or does one have to be currently working?

You have to of been working for at least 3 years on the date you apply.

[jayboy]

17 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

I failed 4 times and was successful on the 5th PR application.

I wonder what you mean by this.I know at least two people who were politely told by Immigration fairly on in the proceedings that they were not fully qualified for PR, and that they should apply again when they were (if they wanted to). My impression is that Immigration wean out non starters at an early stage - in most cases not even accepting their applications.

 

I have never heard of anyone who went through the whole process and was told at the end that they had failed.

 

PR isn't some mysterious lottery.The rules are clearly set out and if you meet the criteria, you will almost certainly get it.

[SteveB2]

17 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Based on your experience and knowing what you know about it today, would you recommend it to others?

 

Yes - but...

• Use an experienced Lawyer with proven track record of processing PR applications.
• Forget the published minimum requirements - everyone I saw at CW for final board level interviews were 15 years+ in LOS, 100K plus salaries, Thai wife and kids more than 10 years, degree qualified, professionals, company owners, full Thai read/write fluent 'bi-lingual' 

Else don't bother - you're likely wasting your time.

[Orton Rd]

I will not be bothering then

[taninthai]

2 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

everyone I saw at CW for final board level interviews were 15 years+ in LOS, 100K plus salaries, Thai wife and kids more than 10 years, degree qualified, professionals, company owners, full Thai read/write fluent 'bi-lingual' 

I reckon I need to get out more been around in los over 10 years and never met any ferang like this anywhere????????????????????

[elviajero]

22 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

I will not be bothering then

My conclusion too! I can't see the benefit all the time annual extensions are so easy to get.

[elviajero]

15 minutes ago, taninthai said:

I reckon I need to get out more been around in los over 10 years and never met any ferang like this anywhere????????????????????

You do. Nice to meet you.

[Orton Rd]

I might have a word with the Chinese woman round the corner, she got Thai ID for 200k, I know a lot of them and they do not put up with the bs we do.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Orton Rd

[SteveB2]

7 minutes ago, taninthai said:

I reckon I need to get out more been around in los over 10 years and never met any ferang like this anywhere????????????????????

In the normal professional business community in Bangkok - high end professional expats are relatively common place.

 

You know the type - they're been here forever. Kids go to international school, Company car/house/maid, etc.

 

There used to be loads of expats like this around in Bangkok before the crash of '97 - then a big clear out occurred and it’s never been the same again.

 

Think of what you would consider to be a professional in your own country - this is the approximate profile of the expat the CW PR team are looking for.

Doctors, bankers, big businessmen, International lawyers, other respected high end professionals.

 

These are the type of expat the Thai government would like to encourage to stay here and help contribute to the development of Thailand.

 

What they're not after is normal expats who are looking to obtain PR to make their lives’ easier. 

 

Forget about all the other humanitarian ways of application listed as possibilities - in reality, they don't exist.  It is (surprise, surprise!) all about your proven finacial value and your potential to contribute to the development of Thailand. 

[taninthai]

9 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

In the normal professional business community in Bangkok - high end professional expats are relatively common place.

 

You know the type - they're been here forever. Kids go to international school, Company car/house/maid, etc.

 

There used to be loads of expats like this around in Bangkok before the crash of '97 - then a big clear out occurred and it’s never been the same again.

 

Think of what you would consider to be a professional in your own country - this is the approximate profile of the expat the CW PR team are looking for.

Doctors, bankers, big businessmen, International lawyers, other respected high end professionals.

 

These are the type of expat the Thai government would like to encourage to stay here and help contribute to the development of Thailand.

 

What they're not after is normal expats who are looking to obtain PR to make their lives’ easier. 

 

Forget about all the other humanitarian ways of application listed as possibilities - in reality, they don't exist.  It is (surprise, surprise!) all about your proven finacial value and your potential to contribute to the development of Thailand. 

Yeah I fully get that,,,,,,Bangkok is one place I avoid ,,,,,I’m just a beach bum with a small business on the beach,,,,left London to get away from all that <deleted>????

[elviajero]

10 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

In the normal professional business community in Bangkok - high end professional expats are relatively common place.

 

You know the type - they're been here forever. Kids go to international school, Company car/house/maid, etc.

 

There used to be loads of expats like this around in Bangkok before the crash of '97 - then a big clear out occurred and it’s never been the same again.

 

Think of what you would consider to be a professional in your own country - this is the approximate profile of the expat the CW PR team are looking for.

Doctors, bankers, big businessmen, International lawyers, other respected high end professionals.

 

These are the type of expat the Thai government would like to encourage to stay here and help contribute to the development of Thailand.

 

What they're not after is normal expats who are looking to obtain PR to make their lives’ easier. 

 

Forget about all the other humanitarian ways of application listed as possibilities - in reality, they don't exist.  It is (surprise, surprise!) all about your proven finacial value and your potential to contribute to the development of Thailand. 

I agree with most of what you've written. Clearly they prioritise applicants and I am sure the types you describe go to the top of the pile, which is why the other reasons for applying take longer to be approved for the more developed countries with large numbers of expats.

[rimmae2]

20 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

True, but...

 

Thai language fluency is included in the 'Assessment testing for the suitability of the issuance of Permanent Residency'

 

This is physical booklet/pamphlet used by the CW PR team (I have seen it and have read through several pages myself, with my assessor, during my own recent PR application process)

 

PR assessment uses a very similar scoring system as the assessment process for the issuance of Thai Citizenship. 

 

The current scoring system for language skills is something like this from what I remember:-

 

•      1 point      can answer some simple questions. 
•      2 points     Basic Conversational ability
•      3 points     Advanced conversational ability plus some read/write capability.
•      4 points     Advanced conversational speaker plus full read/write fluency. Can sing the national anthem.
•      5 points     Professional/Business Thai spoken proficiency.  Full read/write fluency. Can sing the national anthem and the kings song

 

As with everything else in the PR application - things are not black and white.

 

PR application is different to all other Visa application processes you may have previously completed.

 

The PR application process is based on a scoring system, NOT on a minimum requirement system.

 

So if your Thai language capabilities are feeble, you will need to make up for this with high scores in other areas, such as a massive 250K/month salary and a few million Baht cash in the bank, a PhD, 20 years marriage to your Thai wife, supporting 3 Thai genetically related children, running a BOI company with 100 staff, no over-stays in your passport, etc.

 

The Thai citizenship test scoring system is on the web somewhere - 'Google is your friend' - search for it in Thai language if it don't turm up in English.

 

You'll need to average 50% across all the scoring criteria before being permitted to show your face in front of the videoed assessment board interview, made up of all the top brass from the different Thai ministries that assess all Thai PR applicants.

 

The whole PR application was so daunting and intimidating, plus it was such a time and money vampire, that in the end I didn't care anymore... then it was suddenly all over.

 

I failed 4 times and was successful on the 5th PR application.

 

I hope this information helps. Cheers.  

 

 

Sorry to hear of your experience. I think that some of your comments in this and other posts may deter people from applying and are an exaggeration, based on my experience.

 

There was no requirement to read and write Thai or sing the national anthem 5 or 6 years ago and I don't think any points were given for this. Interview was basic conversational Thai about job, family, hobbies, why person wants to stay in Thailand/wants PR, donations, etc. Staff who work in PR in CW will inform potential candidates about whether they meet requirements so as not to waste people's time. No need for PhD, running a BOI company, cash in bank as stated. Others may disagree with what I have stated but I had no difficulties obtaining PR.

[Catkiwi]

On 8/26/2019 at 4:11 PM, Greyhat said:

Anyone have some examples of this? Just out of curiosity.

It is fairly well explained on a web site that I found. It says that the "Thai" questions part of the application process is explained by the officer taking you though it. There was no mention of having to have any "Thai" proficiency. I didn't keep the web site link but if you google "Thai permanent residence visa" there are several options to have a look at.

[Alex2554]

16 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

I might have a word with the Chinese woman round the corner, she got Thai ID for 200k, I know a lot of them and they do not put up with the bs we do.

200K is application fee 

[EricTh]

On 8/26/2019 at 3:02 PM, ubonjoe said:

Fluency in Thai is not a requirement to get PR. You only have to pass a verbal exam on your abilities.

But you do have have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years.

 

You also need to have a minimum of a very high salary every month (can't remember the amount) but it is out of reach for most Thai people to even get that salary level.

 

The problem is not Thai language fluency but the salary level.

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by EricTh

[Neeranam]

On 8/26/2019 at 2:42 PM, KhunFred said:

I had been led to believe that one could only get Permanent Residency if one were fluent in Thai. Several posts on other media have suggested otherwise. Any advice appreciated

Was this over 10 years ago?

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

You also need to have a minimum of a very high salary every month (can't remember the amount) but it is out of reach for most Thai people to even get that salary level.

 

The problem is not Thai language fluency but the salary level.

 

It's only about $ 1500 a month if married to a Thai. This is not high.

[Neeranam]

On 8/31/2019 at 12:46 PM, SteveB2 said:

Use an experienced Lawyer with proven track record of processing PR applications.

Total waste of money.

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, Alex2554 said:

200K is application fee 

No, it is 5000 baht

[jayboy]

On 8/31/2019 at 4:09 PM, rimmae2 said:

Staff who work in PR in CW will inform potential candidates about whether they meet requirements so as not to waste people's time

Exactly.Which is why SteveB2's statement he "failed" 5 times is frankly inexplicable.

 

If an Immigration official pointed - for example - out another document was needed, that's not "failing."

 

Somebody else commented that using a lawyer is a complete waste of time.Agreed that it certainly can all be done by the individual concerned.But having a lawyer can make sense for some whose time is valuable and who have the financial wherewithal.I do agree however that a mediocre lawyer (especially those bottom feeders that prey on gullible foreigners) is worse than no lawyer at all.

[EricTh]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It's only about $ 1500 a month if married to a Thai. This is not high.

If it is in USD , it is quite high considering the median salary.

 

What about those who don't have a Thai wife?

[Alex2554]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

No, it is 5000 baht

If the application is approved, the applicant must pay an additional fee of 191,400 Baht unless the applicant is the child (under 20 years of age) or spouse of a foreign permanent resident or a Thai citizen in which case the fee payable is 95,700 Baht.

https://www.boi.go.th/tir/issue/200908_19_7/94.htm

[SantiSuk]

On 8/31/2019 at 2:48 PM, taninthai said:

I reckon I need to get out more been around in los over 10 years and never met any ferang like this anywhere????????????????????

You ain't been going to the right parties thaninthai!

 

[More of these types than you can shake a stick at if you go to an ambassador's garden party]

[samran]

On 8/30/2019 at 10:27 PM, elviajero said:

I didn’t say that.

So, what is your 'experience' you mentioned in an earlier post. It would be good to know of examples of people you have come across, even if anecdotal, that have gotten PR without needing the 3 years of work permits. 

[Bennyl]

I am currently applying for PR based on supporting a Thai national (costs 7.6 for application and 95,700 once PR has been granted.  Cost for translation, verification by embassy, etc. on top.    

This link explains all requirements http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=residence 

 

Very helpful team at CW are guiding me through. 

Met the "big guy" who's office is literally upstairs, who suggested to improve my Thai skills for the actual interview in front of the panel. Conversation with IO and senior officer was in in Thai only. 

 

Overall very friendly, understanding and without any pressure.  

 

Successful candidates advised patience is of the essence, so confident all will be good.  

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Bennyl

[Time Traveller]

On 8/26/2019 at 2:14 AM, thedemon said:

 

We've been through this before, haven't we?

 

You can apply on the basis of investment but you will still need to have had a work permit and paid tax for the past 3 years the same as applying based on employment. Therefore it is a useless category.

 

I know this because I tried to apply under the investment category and the PR department at Immigration told me that though they would accept the application, I was just making it harder for myself because as well as having to pass the normal criteria, the investment itself would come under scrutiny.

 

Posting links like that just helps to spread their misinformation. 

That's the information I have from immigration too. But I'm not sure if there have been any changes within the last couple of years. If their other requirements are anything to go by, then I doubt anything has changed in the last 30 years.