TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle

[CMNightRider]

28 minutes ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

Not everyone can just "pop into immigration" since many live a long drive away from immigration offices.  "Something to hide"?????  I think not.  Maybe you need to rub those sleepy eyes and wake up.

 

One would think the leaders of Thailand, would find the constent nonsensical rules and regulations aimed at westerners an embarrassment but since these people are instructing Thai Immigration to enforce these idiotic rules, they remain silent.

 

Personally, I would like to see western embassies take a hard look at what Thailands immigration policies are regarding westerners, and impose the same restrictive rules and regulations on Thai citizens when they enter western countries.   

[NE1]

When the online TM 30 is up and running , who is to say that your local immigration office will bother with it. There are still offices where you cannot do online 90 day reporting .

[ChipButty]

3 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Personally, I would like to see western embassies take a hard look at what Thailands immigration policies are regarding westerners, and impose the same restrictive rules and regulations on Thai citizens when they enter western countries.   

Just ban them all together

[ChrisY1]

54 minutes ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

You don't just "pop" in to Immigration if your office is Chaeng Wattana....you take a cut lunch and battle hoards of people to get a ticket...then the wait begins.

[Lupusthai]

2 minutes ago, puchooay said:

No. The owner of the property reports. Not the teacher.

 

If in any doubt, get the owner,or assist the owner to set up an account online. Get him/her to give you the account username and password and report yourself. Easy.

The "owner" is one class of the people who can do the TM30. The other 2 are:
The "housemaster" e.g. the Manager of a Condo, and
The "possessor" e.g. the occupant i.e. the tenant of the property.

They only need a valid passport and

- a copy of the blue housebook or
- a copy of the renting/leasing contract or
- a copy of the chanote, indicating that the applicant leased the property

 

to register online (on pc or mobile).

My deepest sympathy  to all the people who don't own a computer or mobile and have to ask a friend to express their discontent with the TM30-stuff here on ThaiVisa and other places????

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

you sound just like Thai immigration. Obviously you have not thought this through. At all.

[Peterw42]

53 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

I now know a few Thai landlords are not interested in registering their properties so the onus is on the farang to do it but why does the tenant have to do it?

Should crack down on the owners

TM30 responsibility falls to the owner "OR" the housemaster "OR" the possessor of a property. The tenant is the possessor.

[Puchaiyank]

The direction this country is drifting should be alarming to anyone who values their privacy.

 

I provided finger prints, police verification, banking records and so on before I was vetted by immigration as a desirable person to receive a retirement visa to live in Thailand...

 

Now, that I am in country...immigration wants to be comprised to my every movement...in and out of country and even in-country travel...I know of no other country on earth that is so intrusive...(I feel certain someone will challenge this)

 

Had today's immigration policies been in play when I was looking at retirement abroad...I would not have come here...except as a 30 day tourist...

 

50/50 whether to stay or cut my loses and let the door hit me in the axx on the way out...????

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

The direction this country is drifting should be alarming to anyone who values their privacy.

 

I provided finger prints, police verification, banking records and so on before I was vetted by immigration as a desirable person to receive a retirement visa to live in Thailand...

 

Now, that I am in country...immigration wants to be comprised to my every movement...in and out of country and even in-country travel...I know of no other country on earth that is so intrusive...(I feel certain someone will challenge this)

 

Had today's immigration policies been in play when I was looking at retirement abroad...I would not have come here...except as a 30 day tourist...

 

50/50 whether to stay or cut my loses and let the door hit me in the axx on the way out...????

Would certainly make you think twice

[puchooay]

15 minutes ago, Lupusthai said:

The "owner" is one class of the people who can do the TM30. The other 2 are:
The "housemaster" e.g. the Manager of a Condo, and
The "possessor" e.g. the occupant i.e. the tenant of the property.

They only need a valid passport and

- a copy of the blue housebook or
- a copy of the renting/leasing contract or
- a copy of the chanote, indicating that the applicant leased the property

 

to register online (on pc or mobile).

My deepest sympathy  to all the people who don't own a computer or mobile and have to ask a friend to express their discontent with the TM30-stuff here on ThaiVisa and other places????

Yes, I concur.

 

The point of my post was to explain that teachers and others that  work here do not need to take a day off work to report.

[Brer]

1 hour ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

Mate are you for real “pops into immigration”.

Driving 180kms in torrential rain, 300 baht of petrol, three hours of time. 

Plus then having to take the missus shopping in Assawan Nong Khai that’s another thousand or two. New handbag, pair of jeans, shoes and lunch.

I suppose you throw her a peanut?

[Eligius]

11 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

The direction this country is drifting should be alarming to anyone who values their privacy.

 

I provided finger prints, police verification, banking records and so on before I was vetted by immigration as a desirable person to receive a retirement visa to live in Thailand...

 

Now, that I am in country...immigration wants to be comprised to my every movement...in and out of country and even in-country travel...I know of no other country on earth that is so intrusive...(I feel certain someone will challenge this)

 

Had today's immigration policies been in play when I was looking at retirement abroad...I would not have come here...except as a 30 day tourist...

 

50/50 whether to stay or cut my loses and let the door hit me in the axx on the way out...????

As far as I can ascertain, even North Korea does not have a rule such as this.

It is, quite frankly, utterly outrageous and utterly demeaning (intentionally, of course!).

[Just1Voice]

This has become a paranoid country when it comes to foreigners, meanwhile those in power are lining their pockets with every ill gotten baht they can get. 

[JamesBlond]

31 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

The direction this country is drifting should be alarming to anyone who values their privacy.

 

I provided finger prints, police verification, banking records and so on before I was vetted by immigration as a desirable person to receive a retirement visa to live in Thailand...

 

Now, that I am in country...immigration wants to be comprised to my every movement...in and out of country and even in-country travel...I know of no other country on earth that is so intrusive...(I feel certain someone will challenge this)

 

Had today's immigration policies been in play when I was looking at retirement abroad...I would not have come here...except as a 30 day tourist...

 

50/50 whether to stay or cut my loses and let the door hit me in the axx on the way out...????

Was that process you went through for a first-time retirement visa (applied from abroad) or a first-time retirement extension of stay (applied for in Thailand), or a subsequent retirement extension?

I should think the first time is more rigorous and after that it is pretty routine. You should surely at least stay and see how the next one goes, and see if the TM30 gets easier too.

[ChipButty]

1 minute ago, JamesBlond said:

Was that process you went through for a first-time retirement visa (applied from abroad) or a first-time retirement extension of stay (applied for in Thailand), or a subsequent retirement extension?

I should think the first time is more rigorous and after that it is pretty routine. You should surely at least stay and see how the next one goes, and see if the TM30 gets easier too.

Doubt it, it's getting worse by the day

[Sheryl]

Incidentally the relevant section of the law (Immigration Act) is as follows (bold face mine):

 

"The householder, the owner or possessor of a dwelling place, or a hotel manager, who takes in, as a resident, an alien with permission to temporarily stay in the Kingdom,  shall notify the competent official at the immigration office located in the locality in which the house, dwelling place or hotel is located within twenty four hours from the time the alien has taken residence".

 

Now  my reading of this is that a new report needs only to be made if you are newly taking up residence.  If, after reporting your residence at a private house, condo or apartment when you moved in (and again every year when you extend your permission to stay) you continue to reside there permanently (you still pay rent/have a lease or own the place; still pay utilities etc; still have your belongings there etc, you intend to return and it is still your primary place of residence)  then to my reading the law does nto mandate that people to re-notify immigration just because they visited someplace else overnight.

 

I can see requiring hotels etc to report all  guests, the hotel has no way of knowing if you have a permanent residence elsewhere etc. But people on 1 year extensions of stay who have established a long term residence (as most have) that they continue to maintain, should not be required to report every time they come back to it after spending a night away from home. It is absurd, accomplishes nothing and the wording of the law does not require it.

 

 

[Yinn]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

You are going to sell your bike because a TM30 must be completed upon your return to your registered address? Really? Get online and register. It is very simple.

 

This whole TM30 saga has been blown totally out of proportion.

5555555

yes everyday number one story on thaivisa now.

 

Is the same Drama Queens that complain, criticize, moan, groan, mock and ridicule Thailand everyday. Everything.

 

98% of foreigner don’t even know about it. Because the hotel/owner do it for you. 

 

Actually, if they go away for weekend, if it me, I just not tell immigration. How they will know? Impossible.

Immigration police not follow every foreigner on everyday, all night see where you sleep. JUST DONT SAY ANYTHING= EASY

30 million+ foreigner. Not enough police to know, sure.

 

If Yinn want to go to England, Australia or USA for the the two day holiday Yinn don’t get free visa with NO paperwork. 

Yinn must do 20+ document about bank, work, live where AND pay money that, they not refund if they REFUSE. Go to the embassy in Bangkok BEFORE and have interview. Must go to Bangkok, they not have embassy in every province like for you guys.

 

How the Drama Queen can do like that? TM30 is so easy. One page.

And it like you say, just do online.

 

thankyou Poochuay

[Vacuum]

33 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

alarming to anyone who values their privacy

Unfortunately, that animal is extinct. It died with the introduction of mobile phones, google, facebook, windows, apple, plastic money, governments survilance agencies (a well known three-letter acronym in the west is famous).....

[moe666]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

I went on a cycling tour last year. Not one one the half-a-dozen places we stayed at were interested in looking at passports. One night, move on.

 

Edit: Perhaps the answer is to photocopy in advance all the details required on a single page, then give copies to where you stay, and get the guest house to sign a receipt for it.

 

Edit: Ha ha ha! OK, the 'receipt' wouldn't work, but handing out a single page photocopy might.

If the guest house doesn't register you then you are still at home, geez you do not have to tell them if someone else hasn't 

[emptypockets]

from the OP:

The TM30 form is complex and must often be completed in person

 

Writing down your name and address is complex?

Really??

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, Lupusthai said:

to register online (on pc or mobile).

Please tell me how to get the Section 38 app on my PC. I got it on my phone but PC is easier for me to see. Thanks.

[sussex]

4 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Please tell me how to get the Section 38 app on my PC. I got it on my phone but PC is easier for me to see. Thanks.

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/ Should work with your app login details if you already have those.

[rott]

2 hours ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

Well if you read the posts on here you will see that for many it is a lot more than "she" just "popping into immigration".

[ChipButty]

10 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Please tell me how to get the Section 38 app on my PC. I got it on my phone but PC is easier for me to see. Thanks.

Us the web site on your PC https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

[wobalt]

Well, I live in my dad's house, who is a retired Thai National, but now he is in Germany and he cannot fill out the TM 30. I just recently renewed my Non immigrant B visa
 
Now my dad is not in Thailand to register me via TM 30,
 
What do I do now, hahahaha???

I suppose nothing. My wife has permanent residency in Germany and meanwhile applied for a German passport. She doesn’t worry much what immigration applied in Thailand


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RotMahKid]

1 hour ago, Brer said:

Plus then having to take the missus shopping in Assawan Nong Khai that’s another thousand or two. New handbag, pair of jeans, shoes and lunch.

I suppose you throw her a peanut?

Not even a peanut, not all Thai wifes "missus" are like yours. I am a lucky man for that!

[overherebc]

53 minutes ago, Yinn said:

5555555

yes everyday number one story on thaivisa now.

 

Is the same Drama Queens that complain, criticize, moan, groan, mock and ridicule Thailand everyday. Everything.

 

98% of foreigner don’t even know about it. Because the hotel/owner do it for you. 

 

Actually, if they go away for weekend, if it me, I just not tell immigration. How they will know? Impossible.

Immigration police not follow every foreigner on everyday, all night see where you sleep. JUST DONT SAY ANYTHING= EASY

30 million+ foreigner. Not enough police to know, sure.

 

If Yinn want to go to England, Australia or USA for the the two day holiday Yinn don’t get free visa with NO paperwork. 

Yinn must do 20+ document about bank, work, live where AND pay money that, they not refund if they REFUSE. Go to the embassy in Bangkok BEFORE and have interview. Must go to Bangkok, they not have embassy in every province like for you guys.

 

How the Drama Queen can do like that? TM30 is so easy. One page.

And it like you say, just do online.

 

thankyou Poochuay

One of the reasons you have to fill in a lot of paperwork and prove finances is because people abused the system in the past and stayed on and managing through the system to claim public funds from the uk and get free medical treatment.

Don't blame the UK for it, blame Thai people who worked the system to steal from UK. They are the ones you should direct your anger at.

Can you list all the benefits that Thailand bestows on it's visitors??

PS.

It's called Great Britain, not England.

[Longcut]

The part that I cannot get over is, "Landlords will be fined if TM-30 is not submitted". 

 What it should say is, "Landlords will be fined if TM-30 is not submitted. Unless the Landlord doesn't feel like filling one out and submitting it. Then in that case the Farang tennant will be fined for the Landlord not submitting one as the law states".

 After all, this is Thailand and one only obeys the law if they feel like it.  Unless your a Farang. 

[zydeco]

Just went to Chaengwattana this morning so as to do the damn TM30 and get ready for the extension next week. Submitted all the material for the online system about 11 weeks ago. Last week they finally decided NOT to approve it. Thanks for the three month wait! Anticipating problems, I had my landlord submit a TM 30 through the mail in mid July. After six weeks with no return of the TM 30 receipt, I decided to go and complete it today. Left home at 6:30 to get there at 8:45, it being an almost 40 kilometer trip from my side of town. Two hours waiting for the "B" desk to get my receipt. Total spent on taxi? About 950 baht. Pure nonsense.

[Misterwhisper]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Incidentally the relevant section of the law (Immigration Act) is as follows (bold face mine):

 

"The householder, the owner or possessor of a dwelling place, or a hotel manager, who takes in, as a resident, an alien with permission to temporarily stay in the Kingdom,  shall notify the competent official at the immigration office located in the locality in which the house, dwelling place or hotel is located within twenty four hours from the time the alien has taken residence".

 

Now  my reading of this is that a new report needs only to be made if you are newly taking up residence.  If, after reporting your residence at a private house, condo or apartment when you moved in (and again every year when you extend your permission to stay) you continue to reside there permanently (you still pay rent/have a lease or own the place; still pay utilities etc; still have your belongings there etc, you intend to return and it is still your primary place of residence)  then to my reading the law does nto mandate that people to re-notify immigration just because they visited someplace else overnight.

 

I can see requiring hotels etc to report all  guests, the hotel has no way of knowing if you have a permanent residence elsewhere etc. But people on 1 year extensions of stay who have established a long term residence (as most have) that they continue to maintain, should not be required to report every time they come back to it after spending a night away from home. It is absurd, accomplishes nothing and the wording of the law does not require it.

 

 

Your interpretation is logical and sound. Alas, neither of these two attributes are strong points in our hosts.