Brexit: PM Johnson faces mounting legal, political, diplomatic challenges

[david555]

Start reading as it is serious now..., as we said already 3 years + ....E.U. wont blink , even not at the last moment as Boris  hopes / think talks etc.

 

Get ready for Brexit

The UK will leave the EU on 31 October 2019.https://www.gov.uk/brexit

https://www.gov.uk/brexit#individuals

https://www.gov.uk/brexit#business

[sandyf]

On 9/1/2019 at 1:08 PM, Forethat said:

Three weeks. Normal party conference recess is three weeks. Just wanted to point out that factual error of yours.

Totally irrelevant Prorogation and recess are not the same thing.

[david555]

Boris is not a good strategy man , loosing an election means probably other Tory leader too , so .....no fear those rebels have  , as some are anyway end career as Hammond , Ken  Clark .... and then already his majority gone ....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/tory-deselection-threat-may-boost-plan-to-stop-no-deal-brexit

Tory deselection threat 'may boost plan to stop no-deal Brexit'

Confrontational approach by No 10 may embolden rebel MPs, says David Gauke

 

An expected Commons vote this week to block a no-deal Brexit could be “very tight”, David Gauke has predicted, adding that government threats to deselect Conservative MPs who defy the party on the issue could actually boost rebel numbers.

At the start of what could be a tumultuous and fractious week in parliament and politics more widely, the minister-turned-backbench rebel said the threats seemed to show Boris Johnson was intent on forcing a general election.

Gauke said he had written to the attorney general, Geoffrey Cox, and his successor as justice secretary, Robert Buckland, asking for clarification after Michael Gove repeatedly refused to rule out the possibility of the government ignoring any backbench law passed to stop no deal.

Edited September 2, 2019 by david555

[Forethat]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Totally irrelevant Prorogation and recess are not the same thing.

Really!? Thanks for letting us know! Appreciate it!

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Really!? Thanks for letting us know! Appreciate it!

Why do brexiteers keep referring to the party conference recess when it's not the same, wouldn't have anything to do with dictatorship would it.

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Why do brexiteers keep referring to the party conference recess when it's not the same, wouldn't have anything to do with dictatorship would it.

Did someone do that? If someone did, feel free to engage in a debate with that person. I never did, so I don't mind if you stop pinging me.

Thanks.

[david555]

Snap election ….???

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/brexit-no-10-boris-johnson-ignore-legislation-block-no-deal

Snap election speculation mounts as No 10 calls emergency cabinet

No 10 says vote on bill to delay Brexit will be treated as ‘expression of confidence’

 

Speculation is mounting that Boris Johnson could call a snap general election if backbench rebels succeed in passing a bill to delay Brexit, with a Downing Street source saying the issue would be treated as “an expression of confidence” in the government.

Johnson’s cabinet ministers are being summoned for an emergency cabinet meeting on Monday afternoon, before the prime minister is to address Conservative MPs at a No 10 drinks reception.

 

Senior sources among the cross-party group of rebels say they believe Johnson could seek a snap general election as early as Wednesday, asking for the two-thirds majority needed in the Commons under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.

[bangrak]

How could reason and common sense prevail in the UK, its Government, its Parliament, when even a handfull of guys, most of probably living 6,000 miles away from their island, are locking themselves(!) up in diatribes not even alluding any bit to an idea, a spark, for a solution, anything positive, now in well over 1,000 reactions about the general subject?

I must say the wicked twisted 'clan' (IMO) of Brexiteers has 'succeeded' in something nobody would have thought possible just 3 years ago: to divide the UK's population, so deeply it's an abyss, nobody as per today has any idea when and how to fill up again, over the traditional boundaries of opinions,  political parties, social, regional, ...racial, and origin differences!

Pandora's box being opened comes to mind, the melting away power of the Tories the mobile, self-glorified imbeciles à-la DC giving away the key for deluded ...conservative fata morgana's, vicious, self-serving, immoral, ...conservative, 'career-makers' like BJ and his flock, being allowed(!) to grab the key and push it in the lock, making abuse of the deep, ...conservative, fear for the totally brainwashed followers, of, plain dangerous, certifiable, master-liar, NF, which have the potential to reduce them, ...the conservative, to the level of a third, or fourth, rank party, as the bottom-low score in the last polls announced.

Is there still 'hope'? ...Where is 'the hope'? IMH, but deep, opinion, not in dog fights, in a patient reconciliation effort, but, allow me: after having avoided a painfull, catastrophic, 'no-deal' Brexit!

Finishing with a question for the 'religious' readers (me not being such): would the time of the 'false prophets' from the Bible's book of Apocalyps, have begun, Trump(f), BoJo, ...the list is getting long!

[chrissables]

On 8/31/2019 at 1:46 PM, david555 said:

"All this "outrage" is over a mere four (4) days!!!!!! "

 

If is out of almost no importance by your saying  .....Why even Boris dragged the Queen even in it ….???

If not important 4 days ….Boris  should not done it 

It is normal to have a Queens speech, I'm she was not dragged anywhere.

[stephenterry]

Today is going to be interesting as UK parliament could seek to block Johnson and a no-deal. My initial thoughts are that - as is usual - there is a lack of unity among the tory rebels, but continual threats by Johnson is probably not the best strategy to bring them onside to unite the party.

 

I could see those MPs getting really riled, and probably tell him to foxtrot oscar - and to take Cummings and his cabinet with him.

 

Any bets on announcement of a GE on Wednesday?  Which is probably Johnson's best time to win a significant parliamentary majority with the tories ahead on the polls and facing a weak Labour party headed by Corbyn.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Today is going to be interesting as UK parliament could seek to block Johnson and a no-deal. My initial thoughts are that - as is usual - there is a lack of unity among the tory rebels, but continual threats by Johnson is probably not the best strategy to bring them onside to unite the party.
 
I could see those MPs getting really riled, and probably tell him to foxtrot oscar - and to take Cummings and his cabinet with him.
 
Any bets on announcement of a GE on Wednesday?  Which is probably Johnson's best time to win a significant parliamentary majority with the tories ahead on the polls and facing a weak Labour party headed by Corbyn.
 

If Labour are smart they will abstain in the vote for a GE and deny Boris the two-thirds majority he needs. Then there will be 14 days to see if they can agree on a "unity" government. The seriousness of a No Deal Brexit just might get them to agree on a temporary Prime Minister.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[stephenterry]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

If Labour are smart they will abstain in the vote for a GE and deny Boris the two-thirds majority he needs. Then there will be 14 days to see if they can agree on a "unity" government. The seriousness of a No Deal Brexit just might get them to agree on a temporary Prime Minister.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Interesting possibility, but could Corbyn resist the chance of winning a GE? 

[brewsterbudgen]

Interesting possibility, but could Corbyn resist the chance of winning a GE? 

If they vote for a GE, it is Boris that chooses the date. There would be nothing to stop him picking a date after 31 October. Labour cannot risk that.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If they vote for a GE, it is Boris that chooses the date. There would be nothing to stop him picking a date after 31 October. Labour cannot risk that.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Should that be the case, it opens up a whole load of possibilities - all of which would bring more disruption for the UK. Seems to me that the simplest - and probably the least damaging economic option - would be the passing of May's WAG, with a few concessions on the political statement. If the ERG tory rebels hadn't hi-jacked it, the UK would already have left the EU, and we would be getting on with life.

[baboon]

22 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If Labour are smart they will abstain in the vote for a GE and deny Boris the two-thirds majority he needs. Then there will be 14 days to see if they can agree on a "unity" government. The seriousness of a No Deal Brexit just might get them to agree on a temporary Prime Minister.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sigh. It'll be Johnson in the middle of a circular firing squad. The usual.

[charlie farnsbarns]

11 hours ago, bangrak said:

How could reason and common sense prevail in the UK, its Government, its Parliament, when even a handfull of guys, most of probably living 6,000 miles away from their island, are locking themselves(!) up in diatribes not even alluding any bit to an idea, a spark, for a solution, anything positive, now in well over 1,000 reactions about the general subject?

I must say the wicked twisted 'clan' (IMO) of Brexiteers has 'succeeded' in something nobody would have thought possible just 3 years ago: to divide the UK's population, so deeply it's an abyss, nobody as per today has any idea when and how to fill up again, over the traditional boundaries of opinions,  political parties, social, regional, ...racial, and origin differences!

Pandora's box being opened comes to mind, the melting away power of the Tories the mobile, self-glorified imbeciles à-la DC giving away the key for deluded ...conservative fata morgana's, vicious, self-serving, immoral, ...conservative, 'career-makers' like BJ and his flock, being allowed(!) to grab the key and push it in the lock, making abuse of the deep, ...conservative, fear for the totally brainwashed followers, of, plain dangerous, certifiable, master-liar, NF, which have the potential to reduce them, ...the conservative, to the level of a third, or fourth, rank party, as the bottom-low score in the last polls announced.

Is there still 'hope'? ...Where is 'the hope'? IMH, but deep, opinion, not in dog fights, in a patient reconciliation effort, but, allow me: after having avoided a painfull, catastrophic, 'no-deal' Brexit!

Finishing with a question for the 'religious' readers (me not being such): would the time of the 'false prophets' from the Bible's book of Apocalyps, have begun, Trump(f), BoJo, ...the list is getting long!

When you've finished your spluttering. The only question is how can any system work work when everyone is so sensitive, so precious, so entitled that they refuse to lose - even those who have lost a vote?

Losers must lose, regardless of their reasons for hating losing - and especially when those reasons are mainly emotional, born of their own personal insecurity, as are the remainers'. Losers must lose or the system breaks down forever. And seeing as you have to lose, you might as well do so gracefully - that has always been the British way. What happened to that?

Learn to lose. And if it helps, take a Valium.

 

 

[zorrow424]

Clutching at straws,  Johnson has won,and will keep on winning the day,until 31 October,then home and finish.

  Its over,hoping against hope Crowbin and the irish Tossock leader,the guy with his pants around his bending back come up trumps

  Only now do the irish suspect a plot,yes "painted themselves into a corner" to paint a phrase,trying to escape the backstop...there for keeps

[DannyCarlton]

18 minutes ago, charlie farnsbarns said:

When you've finished your spluttering. The only question is how can any system work work when everyone is so sensitive, so precious, so entitled that they refuse to lose - even those who have lost a vote?

Losers must lose, regardless of their reasons for hating losing - and especially when those reasons are mainly emotional, born of their own personal insecurity, as are the remainers'. Losers must lose or the system breaks down forever. And seeing as you have to lose, you might as well do so gracefully - that has always been the British way. What happened to that?

Learn to lose. And if it helps, take a Valium.

 

 

Sorry to shatter your deluded rant but it's not about losing. It's about preventing the UK from shooting itself in the foot head, envoking a no deal Brexit and sliding into an economic demise that it will never recover from.

 

You are a patriot? You love your country? Then don't let Boris Cummings destroy the country you love so that they and their mates can make a few sheckels by betting against UK on the futures market.

[david555]

1 hour ago, chrissables said:

It is normal to have a Queens speech, I'm she was not dragged anywhere.

Oh ..! That fake excuse again , using the Queen for his agenda , lucky he is not doing that in Thailand ,he would end longtime in a very bad place …,

nobody is fooling in his excuses anymore  ,never mind,  today action day ...setting the score right.

 

BTW why his fooling still the Brits , as there are no negotiations with E.U. going on  and not planned ….talks yes as polite as E.U. is talks....just talks...  as a visitor with a cup of tea with even a slice of cake but no cherry's …, again using lies to win time ...just hoping to please H.O.C. that he is getting a new better deal …..forget as they say over and over again  ,what is  on the table is the only one,....May's deal .

 

[nauseus]

11 hours ago, bangrak said:

How could reason and common sense prevail in the UK, its Government, its Parliament, when even a handfull of guys, most of probably living 6,000 miles away from their island, are locking themselves(!) up in diatribes not even alluding any bit to an idea, a spark, for a solution, anything positive, now in well over 1,000 reactions about the general subject?

I must say the wicked twisted 'clan' (IMO) of Brexiteers has 'succeeded' in something nobody would have thought possible just 3 years ago: to divide the UK's population, so deeply it's an abyss, nobody as per today has any idea when and how to fill up again, over the traditional boundaries of opinions,  political parties, social, regional, ...racial, and origin differences!

Pandora's box being opened comes to mind, the melting away power of the Tories the mobile, self-glorified imbeciles à-la DC giving away the key for deluded ...conservative fata morgana's, vicious, self-serving, immoral, ...conservative, 'career-makers' like BJ and his flock, being allowed(!) to grab the key and push it in the lock, making abuse of the deep, ...conservative, fear for the totally brainwashed followers, of, plain dangerous, certifiable, master-liar, NF, which have the potential to reduce them, ...the conservative, to the level of a third, or fourth, rank party, as the bottom-low score in the last polls announced.

Is there still 'hope'? ...Where is 'the hope'? IMH, but deep, opinion, not in dog fights, in a patient reconciliation effort, but, allow me: after having avoided a painfull, catastrophic, 'no-deal' Brexit!

Finishing with a question for the 'religious' readers (me not being such): would the time of the 'false prophets' from the Bible's book of Apocalyps, have begun, Trump(f), BoJo, ...the list is getting long!

And you employ the word "diatribe". Ballsy.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Sorry to shatter your deluded rant but it's not about losing. It's about preventing the UK from shooting itself in the foot head, envoking a no deal Brexit and sliding into an economic demise that it will never recover from.

 

You are a patriot? You love your country? Then don't let Boris Cummings destroy the country you love so that they and their mates can make a few sheckels by betting against UK on the futures market.

Hilarious but no emoji for you.

[zorrow424]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

Sorry to shatter your deluded rant but it's not about losing. It's about preventing the UK from shooting itself in the foot head, envoking a no deal Brexit and sliding into an economic demise that it will never recover from.

 

You are a patriot? You love your country? Then don't let Boris Cummings destroy the country you love so that they and their mates can make a few sheckels by betting against UK on the futures market.

For sure,not listening to the irish,now that would be head banging stuff

  By any chance were you the one stating banks,financial institutions would vanish from UK ?  Was it you by any chance

[david555]

33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hilarious but no emoji for you.

I was lucky I got one just now,  thanks nauseus.....lol

Edited September 3, 2019 by david555

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

BTW why his fooling still the Brits , as there are no negotiations with E.U. going on  and not planned

He's playing this game so that when there's a no deal Brexit he can blame the EU for forcing it on the UK. Unfortunately it won't work as the EU powers that be are a lot smarter than he Cummings is. They just keep batting it straight back at him.

 

Some of his senior MPs have written him a letter asking for a meeting to learn how the negotiations are progressing and what is his masterplan for getting rid of the backstop as they needed to know before parliament opens today. He refused to meet them and refused to answer their questions. Says it all.

[charlie farnsbarns]

18 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Sorry to shatter your deluded rant but it's not about losing. It's about preventing the UK from shooting itself in the foot head, envoking a no deal Brexit and sliding into an economic demise that it will never recover from.

 

You are a patriot? You love your country? Then don't let Boris Cummings destroy the country you love so that they and their mates can make a few sheckels by betting against UK on the futures market.

You don't get it. System breakdown is by far the bigger issue. Losers must lose for systemic reasons. If the losers manage not to lose this time, what will happen next time? I will tell you: the losers in future (who always have their reasons, and who will then be your opponents) will also refuse to lose. The consequence is never-ending deadlock and conflict.

 

You need to understand the way politics works. In a reasonably free society people naturally join one of two camps because competition is intrinsic to human nature and competition only works effectively in bipolar fashion - you can't have a football match with three teams. A reasonably free population regulates itself in this way so that power moves periodically from one side to the other. The duality, and the swing, are both essential to the system. The temporarily losing side MUST periodically cede control to the temporarily victorious side or there is no system at all. But don't worry - the system readjusts itself naturally upon successive swings.

 

To block a vote - for whatever reasons - is simply to obstruct the only social/political/philosophical process that works. Losers must lose, regardless of their reasons, and also because there are other people with different reasons - that's something else they need to understand and respect.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by charlie farnsbarns

[DannyCarlton]

18 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

By any chance were you the one stating banks,financial institutions would vanish from UK ?  Was it you by any chance

Not that i remember but for your information it's already happening.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3bdc1840-56df-11e9-91f9-b6515a54c5b1

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2019/05/31/the-european-banking-authority-leaves-london/#1693fca81715

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/07/investing/brexit-banks-moving-assets/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-banks-factbox/factbox-impact-on-banks-from-britains-vote-to-leave-the-eu-idUSKBN1O31FE

 

Brexiteers would do well to note that if they want to know the truth about the effects of a no deal Brexit will have on the UK they should garner their information from sources such as the FT rather than Farage's blogs or page 3 of the Sun.

[stephenterry]

13 minutes ago, charlie farnsbarns said:

You don't get it. System breakdown is by far the bigger issue. Losers must lose for systemic reasons. If the losers manage not to lose this time, what will happen next time? I will tell you: the losers in future (who always have their reasons, and who will then be your opponents) will also refuse to lose. The consequence is never-ending deadlock and conflict.

 

You need to understand the way politics works. In a reasonably free society people naturally join one of two camps because competition is intrinsic to human nature and competition only works effectively in bipolar fashion - you can't have a football match with three teams. A reasonably free population regulates itself in this way so that power moves periodically from one side to the other. The duality, and the swing, are both essential to the system. The temporarily losing side MUST periodically cede control to the temporarily victorious side or there is no system at all. But don't worry - the system readjusts itself naturally upon successive swings.

 

To block a vote - for whatever reasons - is simply to obstruct the only social/political/philosophical process that works. Losers must lose, regardless of their reasons, and also because there are other people with different reasons - that's something else they need to understand and respect.

 

And it's Britain that's going to lose unless some sanity is restored by the politicians - which is the whole point of them seeking to block a no-deal.

[petermik]

6 hours ago, stephenterry said:

And it's Britain that's going to lose unless some sanity is restored by the politicians - which is the whole point of them seeking to block a no-deal.

My sorrow is for all the EU beaurocrats on huge salaries who may have to take pay cuts when we walk away......we voted OUT we want OUT

[DannyCarlton]

16 minutes ago, charlie farnsbarns said:

You don't get it. System breakdown is by far the bigger issue. Losers must lose for systemic reasons. If the losers manage not to lose this time, what will happen next time? I will tell you: the losers in future (who always have their reasons, and who will then be your opponents) will also refuse to lose. The consequence is never-ending deadlock and conflict.

 

You need to understand the way politics works. In a reasonably free society people naturally join one of two camps because competition is intrinsic to human nature and competition only works effectively in bipolar fashion - you can't have a football match with three teams. A reasonably free population regulates itself in this way so that power moves periodically from one side to the other. The duality, and the swing, are both essential to the system. The temporarily losing side MUST periodically cede control to the temporarily victorious side or there is no system at all. But don't worry - the system readjusts itself naturally upon successive swings.

 

To block a vote - for whatever reasons - is simply to obstruct the only social/political/philosophical process that works. Losers must lose, regardless of their reasons, and also because there are other people with different reasons - that's something else they need to understand and respect.

 

What system breakdown? Breakdown of the economy is the important issue, or maybe the systm of parliamentary democracy is what you're referring to.

 

In a free society joining one of 2 camps is not the norm. Most democratic countries have several political parties (UK included) and coalitions are common (and not unheard of in the UK). Winning sides and losing sides? You really have zero grasp on how politics works in the world.

 

I think you are basing your understanding of politics on nothing but Brexit (and possible Trump) where there has been a calculated attempt by unscrupulous populist politicians to divide the country into 2 camps. This is not the norm.

[charlie farnsbarns]

10 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

And it's Britain that's going to lose unless some sanity is restored by the politicians - which is the whole point of them seeking to block a no-deal.

Some think this way, some think that way... there are positives and negatives for everyone... everyone has their own set of reasons which suits them. Uh-huh. That's kiddy stuff. I'm talking about a far bigger thing than your Brexit opinion. The principle is the important thing here, and the principle is that losers must lose. I repeat, by refusing to lose, you are undermining the basis of all future political process. Is the remainers' egocentricity that big?