27 minutes ago, juice777 said:

"We have finally got someone who is a leader and is willing to carry out the wishes of the British electorate, if Boris can do that by any trick in the book that will be fine by most folk" 

Why didn't the yellow chicken step up before then before May Because he knew a new deal was impossible.He wanted to hang back and wait till she failed test the water for public opinion on a no Deal scenario after it's been put threw focus groups no doubt.Take the ball from the scrum(his words not mine) become Prime Minster,pretend he is Winston Churchill for few months ,Promise loads of cash the Government don't have and a Government he has just spent about 12 years in agreeing with that they don't have any cash to the police schools Etc not deliverr. Because it's blatantly a lie why not lies have seemed to work out swimmingly for you so far in for a penny in for a pound.Then if Brexit happens in what ever shape it is he will clam Victory take the Credit Just like the Olympics and Boris Bikes both of which was mostly done under Ken Livingstone. lose the next general election hand the government to Jeremy Corbyn sod off to America and write a book i and get a chat show on American TV we saying oh crikey a lot as the UK implodes and he cashes his cheques where he has no doubt made money shorting the Pound along the way some how.

 

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"olympics" what a white elephant that turned out,still typical livingstone thought everyone loved him,[they did briefly,till they realised he was serious]then he got the gooner.

48 minutes ago, vogie said:

Parliament is only a building, the MPs are supposed to be the ones that are sworn to uphold the tradition of democracy. Well with your hand on your heart can you possibly say they are doing this. 

You don't ask a country for their opinion with a promise of implimenting that decision then when they get the results back, throw them in the bin,, that is certainly not democracy.

Once again a Brexiteer displays his ignorance of the Parliamentary procedures he wishes to lecture us on.

 

MP’s do indeed swear an oath but it has nothing at all to do with upholding any tradition of democracy.

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

This is going to be my last post to you, I am beginning to get repetitive stress in my middle finger.

 

Parliament passed a bill to allow the electorate to vote on whether to leave the EU or not.

The electorate voted and parliament listened to the electorates decision and decided to go with what they voted for, are you still with me?

When parliament triggered Art50 it made it law to leave the EU, ok so far?

And here's the rub, parliamentary democracy can only work if the MPs are being democratic, and unless you are an eidelweiss living on the top of Mount Everest you surely would see the failings of our democratic process.

This whole debate is not about anything you have mentioned. It’s about whether parliamentary democracy should be ignored because it doesn’t suit a Brexit agenda. 

I agree you should no longer debate a point you have no chance of winning. 

A baiting post has been removed

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Once again a Brexiteer displays his ignorance of the Parliamentary procedures he wishes to lecture us on.

 

MP’s do indeed swear an oath but it has nothing at all to do with upholding any tradition of democracy.

Once again, doing a great job at being a polarizing hate figure on the forum. Try being constructive sometimes. Not sure why you are on this forum as I doubt you live here because you never comment on Thai related threads.

13 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

This whole debate is not about anything you have mentioned. It’s about whether parliamentary democracy should be ignored because it doesn’t suit a Brexit agenda. 

I agree you should no longer debate a point you have no chance of winning. 

did johnson do anything illegal[ like it could be argued spending 9 million pounds on a personal project fear leaflet?]

9 minutes ago, Brigand said:

Once again, doing a great job at being a polarizing hate figure on the forum. Try being constructive sometimes. Not sure why you are on this forum as I doubt you live here because you never comment on Thai related threads.

bit off topic,but look at hong kong,bit nearer to home,all the people who chose to do thailand a favour by settling there should realise they are only guests and could be asked to sling their hooks at a minutes notice.

45 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Once again a Brexiteer displays his ignorance of the Parliamentary procedures he wishes to lecture us on.

 

MP’s do indeed swear an oath but it has nothing at all to do with upholding any tradition of democracy.

<Cant be bothered>

37 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

This whole debate is not about anything you have mentioned. It’s about whether parliamentary democracy should be ignored because it doesn’t suit a Brexit agenda. 

I agree you should no longer debate a point you have no chance of winning. 

"No chance of winning" playground talk.

As a remainer , I would just like to say a few words on behalf of an apparently minute percent of remainers who would like to respect the democratic vote that chose to leave the EU.

 

I believe that Brexit is a mistake.

 

Since the UK is a major contributor to the EU's budget we would have done better throwing our weight around with readily available allies 

( Hungary , Greece , Italy etc ) within the union , than collecting up our marbles and leaving in a huff.

 

But that is water the bridge.

 

The vote was not rigged or undemocratic in any way. Brexiteers

turned out to vote. Remainers , for whatever reason , did not.

 

That is democracy. Vote on it and act accordingly.

 

The attempt by my fellow remainers to block Brexit by all means  ( not agreeing to anything that will result in Brexit ) I personally find very sad.

 

Democracy means putting things to the vote and abiding by the outcome.

 

If we cannot , then all of us should cease criticizing Thai politics. We are just another banana republic , democratic in name only.

 

I think the leave vote was a knee jerk response to immigration. 

 

But I am prepared for the Brexit and once the dust has settled think that the UK will not sink beneath the waves if we leave.

 

I have more confidence in the UK than can be measured by the calibre of our current politicians.

45 minutes ago, Brigand said:

Once again, doing a great job at being a polarizing hate figure on the forum. Try being constructive sometimes. Not sure why you are on this forum as I doubt you live here because you never comment on Thai related threads.

Sorry for pointing out a easily checked false claim.

 

Where I live is not the topic of discussion, much less any of your business.

Go, Boris, Go ! put these childish little power merchants who are openly defying the wishes of their constituents right where they belong, and stop their paychecks as well ! ????

8 minutes ago, Denim said:

As a remainer , I would just like to say a few words on behalf of an apparently minute percent of remainers who would like to respect the democratic vote that chose to leave the EU.

 

I believe that Brexit is a mistake.

 

Since the UK is a major contributor to the EU's budget we would have done better throwing our weight around with readily available allies 

( Hungary , Greece , Italy etc ) within the union , than collecting up our marbles and leaving in a huff.

 

But that is water the bridge.

 

The vote was not rigged or undemocratic in any way. Brexiteers

turned out to vote. Remainers , for whatever reason , did not.

 

That is democracy. Vote on it and act accordingly.

 

The attempt by my fellow remainers to block Brexit by all means  ( not agreeing to anything that will result in Brexit ) I personally find very sad.

 

Democracy means putting things to the vote and abiding by the outcome.

 

If we cannot , then all of us should cease criticizing Thai politics. We are just another banana republic , democratic in name only.

 

I think the leave vote was a knee jerk response to immigration. 

 

But I am prepared for the Brexit and once the dust has settled think that the UK will not sink beneath the waves if we leave.

 

I have more confidence in the UK than can be measured by the calibre of our current politicians.

Your statement that the vote was not rigged needs qualification.

 

The Elections Commission found and penalized electoral frauds committed by the Leave Campaign and subsidiaries linked to the Leave Campaign.

 

Your definition of democracy omits the right of people to Campaign and topically peacefully demonstrate against the actions of the government, a right that exists regardless of election or referendum results.

15 minutes ago, Denim said:

As a remainer , I would just like to say a few words on behalf of an apparently minute percent of remainers who would like to respect the democratic vote that chose to leave the EU.

 

I believe that Brexit is a mistake.

 

Since the UK is a major contributor to the EU's budget we would have done better throwing our weight around with readily available allies 

( Hungary , Greece , Italy etc ) within the union , than collecting up our marbles and leaving in a huff.

 

But that is water the bridge.

 

The vote was not rigged or undemocratic in any way. Brexiteers

turned out to vote. Remainers , for whatever reason , did not.

 

That is democracy. Vote on it and act accordingly.

 

The attempt by my fellow remainers to block Brexit by all means  ( not agreeing to anything that will result in Brexit ) I personally find very sad.

 

Democracy means putting things to the vote and abiding by the outcome.

 

If we cannot , then all of us should cease criticizing Thai politics. We are just another banana republic , democratic in name only.

 

I think the leave vote was a knee jerk response to immigration. 

 

But I am prepared for the Brexit and once the dust has settled think that the UK will not sink beneath the waves if we leave.

 

I have more confidence in the UK than can be measured by the calibre of our current politicians.

we tried to  "change the eu from within" for the  last 40 odd years in the latter years they just laughed in our faces,thats why we voted to leave,

Just now, rhyddid said:

It's a clear coup, shutting down government to avoid the democratic discussion of a very important topic !

HM The Queen shall step in and revert what she signed.

BJ proves once again to be an errant incompetent dictator in a democratic country, that why he shall be jailed and banned from politics for life !

No deal and leave UK in the hand of such disgraced man it's the equal of the end of democracy and UK itself!  

Shutting down the democratic process , when that process is trying to undermine the democratic process .

  This is getting confusing 

2 hours ago, juice777 said:

 

 

"I wonder why they haven't delivered Brexit. Could it possibly be the under Teresa May who was a staunch Remainer she was determined to keep the UK in the EU?"

So they haven't delivered then?

I say it again with the Track Rocored of our politicians what else could have happened it was obvious from day one.



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Very true.

 

Now perhaps you may understand why foxes are not supposed to be in charge of the hen house.

 

If Boris and the Brexiteers had been running the campaign we would most probably NOT be in the position that it is now in.

 

Remember that Teresa May promised faithfully that she would carry out the wishes of the referendum.

 

She lied from day 1.  As a Remainer she tried everything to keep the UK in the EU and she almost succeeded.

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your definition of democracy omits the right of people to Campaign and topically peacefully demonstrate against the actions of the government, a right that exists regardless of election or referendum results.

 

Your definition by contrast , makes all referendums a complete waste of time.

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

You had a Brexit deal:- you just didn’t like it because it wasn’t the milk and honey you were promised. There was never going to be a great deal from the EU were you got to “keep the best bits” (actually promised by BoJo) now when BoJo is trying to force a result that undermines our democracy you now think that’s a fair price to pay. 

I don’t. 

No, the UK did NOT have a Brexit deal at all or it would have been ratified by parliament, as it was it was rejected 3 times by the same parliament that you think is non-democratic and undermines democracy in the UK.

 

Democracy is accepting that you side didn't win and moving on. What is undermining our Democracy in failing to accept what the majority who voted to leave and saying that they were wrong and had no idea what they voted for.

 

I voted to leave and having listened to both sides I made my own mind up and ignored all the propaganda from BOTH sides as both sides lied.

16 minutes ago, kingdong said:

we tried to  "change the eu from within" for the  last 40 odd years in the latter years they just laughed in our faces,thats why we voted to leave,

 

Clearly they didn't try hard enough.

 

They tried civilized negotiation.

 

When this doesn't work you have to up the anti and make a big stink.

Use your economic clout to make yourself heard. Clearly, British politicians have not been up to the mark.

8 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

Your definition by contrast , makes all referendums a complete waste of time.

Not at all, it simply requires you to understand referenda as advisory and non binding.

 

Which in law is exactly what they are.

I think the most important point you have omitted is that parliament has agreed to leave the EU by a very large majority, it is law.

Not no-deal it didn't. That's just Hard Brexiteer spin.

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Sold in the truth ! We now see the EU for what it is ! It’s arrogance, building on its failures and outdated model


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Anyone make sense of this?

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If an unelected Prime Minister with a majority of 1 and no mandate can shut down Parliament in an unconventional but legal way, It must be ok to ignore a nonbinding referendum and revoke article 50 in an unconventional but legal way. Espically when sold on lies and they haven't delivered.

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Boris's cavalier decision just might come back and bite him.

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Clearly they didn't try hard enough.
 
They tried civilized negotiation.
 
When this doesn't work you have to up the anti and make a big stink.
Use your economic clout to make yourself heard. Clearly, British politicians have not been up to the mark.

Plenty of Hard Brexiteer smelly stink now.

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1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not at all, it simply requires you to understand referenda as advisory and non binding.

 

Which in law is exactly what they are.

 

Oh I see ......sorry about that. My bad.

 

A bit like a general election then where voters express their preference for the party that will govern them.

 

But it shouldn't be binding if some people don't like the outcome.

 

People should be allowed to overturn the result if they beat their drum loud enough.

 

Cool ......I see where you are at. I've got your number.

 
Your definition by contrast , makes all referendums a complete waste of time.

Referendums aren't a waste of time but hard Brexiteerland is a waste of space.

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A post which has changed the meaning of a quote has been reported and removed.  

 

we tried to  "change the eu from within" for the  last 40 odd years in the latter years they just laughed in our faces,thats why we voted to leave,

Certainly failed with the bendy bananas. Anything else?

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"The border means nothing to them and they don’t give two hoots about it."

 

   Positive for some, negative for others. 

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Not overturn it or not me anyway( or I didn't until Boris played this despicable card) I want to underline it with another referendum and a fair one where 16 and 17 years old can Vote on there future where we are free from Cambridge Analytica and Russian twitter bots or whatever they are called.

 

You cannot have referendum after referendum because the result didn't go the way we would have wanted. As for wanting 16 and 17 year olds being allowed to vote, why stop there, get it down to 10 year olds. There must be a reason why the voting age is the way it is, do you honestly think that youngsters of that age are mature enough to make a decision on behalf of the country?

I think the skullduggery was the same on both sides, Cameron spending £9 million of tax payers money on propaganda leaflets. But we are were we are now, it is tomorrow that counts.

 

The majority of British people don't want this they don't want to be ruined and what are the Brexit Mob afraid of you know you will lose another referendum that's the beauty of democracy you can change your mind.

 

"The majority of British people don't want this they don't want to be ruined" that is over exaggeration at its finest, there may slight hiccups for a while, or maybe not, we are in unchartered waters, nobody knows.

There is no indication that the electorate have changed their minds and the only accurate statistics we have is the referendum result.

I think it would be safe to say though, is that most people have had enough of the whole debacle and just want it to be put to bed as soon as possible preferable with a fair deal, but seeing that looks highly unlikely it only leaves no-deal.

What about the non-binding, consultative, referendum it clearly was (though damn silly of self-imbued imbecile, Conservative..., PM Cameron to have called for it, ...counting on a tidal wave in favour of 'remain', stupidly pushing aside the 'traitors' in own Conservative ranks, à-la BoJo &Co., to re-inforce its slinking majority)!

Go figure what would have happened when 'remain' would have 'won' by a same 52% score of participants, a mere 37.42% of the electorate...? Violent opposition, riots on the streets?

...Still, about a non-binding, consultative, referendum, Parliament's MPs had, have, still should have to decide what they, each of them, decide, on their own, what to do with!

And that is the huge hypocrisy in the present situation: the 'Bexiteers', with their 37.42% followers (at that time) of the potential participants to the, non-binding, consultative, referendum, from day-1 ...after the referedum results were known, unisono, claimed the result was binding, and, since then, it is the only anthem on the wavelengths, as if everybody would have been brainwashed to believe the 52% of 72%'s voice (which, mind you, should not have been ignored, but...) became the Law, and the UK HAD TO(!) leave the EU!

I don't know where the turpid, dramatic, twist came from, I can imagine it was from ...Conservatives, again, by some unknow powerful means achieving to turn the core of the party, and its, new, PM, TM, to reneg(!) on her own opinions and go for Brexit (and do that in a totally dedicated way, hat of for the Lady, she gave all for the party, alas, in that even choosing to push aside the question of what was, with common sense engaged, the better choice for the country she was, supposed to, lead...).

But I'm very afraid the times of good reason and common sense are long away in the matter, alas, the genie is really out of the bottle, in a way, to me, it seems the country has, maybe never before, or at least not in centuries, been confronted to. It is damn scary to watch what is happening in the UK, with the situation in itself, but even more so considering the kind of individuals let to(!) lead the present ultimately dangerous 'dance', for the UK, especially, for the EU, and for the whole free World!