Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election

[Nigel Garvie]

47 minutes ago, david555 said:

Maybe promising to restore those banned rebels …..?

This may be sarcasm.

 

My feeling is that if he hadn't slapped a wet kipper in their faces, and booted them out of the party, then he might stand a chance. Now he has made sworn enemies, everyone has some pride.

[david555]

13 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

This may be sarcasm.

 

My feeling is that if he hadn't slapped a wet kipper in their faces, and booted them out of the party, then he might stand a chance. Now he has made sworn enemies, everyone has some pride.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/05/brexit-lords--blow--boris-johnson-pass-bill-stopping-no-deal-politics-live
Starting at point 16.54 from live feed 
 you can see the released court  notes all about the prorogatian planning

Edited September 5, 2019 by david555

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Please stay on topic.  

 

[Basil B]

Just hours after being defeated JRM announced that the the Early Election motion will once again be put before parliament on Monday next, I can not seeing the result being any different to that of last nights unless Boris is asking Brussels to extend A50.

 

As I see it now that it is clear there will be a general election Johnson and the currant Government has lost its mandate to continue to negotiate, by asking Brussels to to extend A50 to January 31st 2020 (provisionally) as soon as possible rather than waiting for the bill that would direct him to do so would clear the way for an election to be called next week.

 

With the party conferences following will provide a way to sort out election manifestos endorsed by the party delegates at their respective party conferences and maybe Labour could nail down which side of the fence they wish to be...

 

Then after the election when a new Government is formed they can go to Brussels and state what they want to do. leave no deal, accept what is on the table, call a referendum to decide or revoke A50.       

Edited September 5, 2019 by Basil B

[beautifulthailand99]

Maybe we are entering the final chapter where we junk Brexit for good and declare victory for the Tory Remainers and Philip Hammond.

On Boris' resignation Corbyn could be invited to form the Grand Remainer Coalition of "National Unity" with the Libdems, SNP, Tory Saboteurs et alia to revoke Article 50.

Hammond has ensured, as he always designed, the destruction of the Tory Party, the final demise of Brexit and the entrenchment of the first UK Marxist Government.

Hammond wishes to destroy No Deal and Boris by any means necessary. 

 

Oh and if he resigns Bozo is constitutionally bound to go to the Queen and recommend to her his successor, which would be the MP that has the most support for being the next PM. That means he has to go and tell the Queen to invite Corbyn to Buckingham Palace and make him the next Prime Minister.

The joy of victory is in our sights. I do hope so - the bitter vitriol of leavers betrayed will be music to my ears. There is also speculation that he had been drinking before his speech.

Edited September 5, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[Laughing Gravy]

55 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The joy of victory is in our sights. I do hope so - the bitter vitriol of leavers betrayed will be music to my ears

Total hypocrisy. Leavers are the screamers and shouters who throw bile of abuse at leavers. you are one of them.

So I see your happy that democracy is overturned. Maybe a country that is run by dictators is what you think is best. The type of Brit not missed in my opinion.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Laughing Gravy

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Maybe we are entering the final chapter where we junk Brexit for good and declare victory for the Tory Remainers and Philip Hammond.

On Boris' resignation Corbyn could be invited to form the Grand Remainer Coalition of "National Unity" with the Libdems, SNP, Tory Saboteurs et alia to revoke Article 50.

Hammond has ensured, as he always designed, the destruction of the Tory Party, the final demise of Brexit and the entrenchment of the first UK Marxist Government.

Hammond wishes to destroy No Deal and Boris by any means necessary. 

 

Oh and if he resigns Bozo is constitutionally bound to go to the Queen and recommend to her his successor, which would be the MP that has the most support for being the next PM. That means he has to go and tell the Queen to invite Corbyn to Buckingham Palace and make him the next Prime Minister.

The joy of victory is in our sights. I do hope so - the bitter vitriol of leavers betrayed will be music to my ears. There is also speculation that he had been drinking before his speech.

Your red flag is flying high tonight. An entrenchment of the first marxist government would be the final demise of the UK, as most of us know it. Staying in the EU will have the same effect, just slower. 

 

When Brexit was first announced, I was happy but spat no vitriol at remainers, some of whom are close friends and family. I was also happy to let the EU go its way and hope for a decent future relationship between the UK and the EU. That is how it should be. But, after 3 years of this, that is obviously how it can never be. 

 

If the UK does not leave the EU now, and if British democracy and the UK constitution is allowed to be further abused and confounded by the self-serving frauds who are supposed to lead and represent the British people in parliament, then all I can wish for the speedy and utter collapse of the EU. At least that would solve the problem.

 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So I see your happy that democracy is overturned.

Seems like parliamentary representative democracy can’t be overturned by a manipulated non-binding referendum. That should make us happy indeed. 

 

 

 

 

[transam]

15 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Extraordinary article in the Mail floating the idea that Boris might resign with a pushback by 100 tories fighting against the sackings. Labour must let the lying pig stew in his own toxic juices until he implodes.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7430157/Boris-Johnson-accuses-Jeremy-Corbyn-cowardly-insult-democracy.html

Isn't it rather schoolboy-ish to call the UK's leader a "lying pig"...?

 

I am sure you are capable of writing like an adult regarding this topic...????

[DannyCarlton]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Total hypocrisy. Leavers are the screamers and shouters who throw bile of abuse at leavers. you are one of them.

I agree but I think @beautifulthailand99 is a remainer, if I'm not mistaken.

[transam]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Total hypocrisy. Leavers are the screamers and shouters who throw bile of abuse at leavers. you are one of them.

So I see your happy that democracy is overturned. Maybe a country that is run by dictators is what you think is best. The type of Brit not missed in my opinion.

Agreed, makes me think back to a time when the UK had Black Shirt fascist and Communist Parties which were supported by a minority of Brit nutters. Thankfully that episode has past, but seems something new is raising it's ugly head in the UK...

[JAG]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Isn't it rather schoolboy-ish to call the UK's leader a "lying pig"...?

 

I am sure you are capable of writing like an adult regarding this topic...????

I've read quite a lot (too many?)  of his posts recently. I am not so sure!????

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Agreed, makes me think back to a time when the UK had Black Shirt fascist and Communist Parties which were supported by a minority of Brit nutters. Thankfully that episode has past, but seems something new is raising it's ugly head in the UK...

Yes, very remeniscent of the blackshirt facists. We now have UKIP, the Brexit party and Tommy Robinson marching the streets. (When Tommy gets out of nick that is 555)

[transam]

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

Yes, very remeniscent of the blackshirt facists. We now have UKIP, the Brexit party and Tommy Robinson marching the streets. (When Tommy gets out of nick that is 555)

That is my point, these "parties" will always have a following...????

 

Just like you and many others, including MP's, are disregarding what the UK voted for. I find that a stab in the back to democracy...

[JAG]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Seems like parliamentary representative democracy can’t be overturned by a manipulated non-binding referendum. That should make us happy indeed. 

 

 

 

 

A parliamentary representative democracy  serves to represent  the wishes of those it represents, not what they (the representatives)  think is good for them (those who elect them).  That is why they are elected on a manifesto.  Both the Conservative  and Labour parties were elected on an emphatic manifesto  to take the UK out of the EU,  honouring the referendum result is the phrase  which comes to mind. The Tory rebels. And the Labour  party have openly and deliberately  reneged on that manifesto.  They should  face the electorate without delay.

[welovesundaysatspace]

18 minutes ago, JAG said:

A parliamentary representative democracy  serves to represent  the wishes of those it represents, not what they (the representatives)  think is good for them (those who elect them).  That is why they are elected on a manifesto.  Both the Conservative  and Labour parties were elected on an emphatic manifesto  to take the UK out of the EU,  honouring the referendum result is the phrase  which comes to mind.

No one said they won’t. 

 

Quote

The Tory rebels. And the Labour  party have openly and deliberately  reneged on that manifesto. 

That’s not true. 

 

Quote

They should  face the electorate without delay.

If parliament decides so. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Maybe we are entering the final chapter where we junk Brexit for good and declare victory for the Tory Remainers and Philip Hammond.

On Boris' resignation Corbyn could be invited to form the Grand Remainer Coalition of "National Unity" with the Libdems, SNP, Tory Saboteurs et alia to revoke Article 50.

Hammond has ensured, as he always designed, the destruction of the Tory Party, the final demise of Brexit and the entrenchment of the first UK Marxist Government.

Hammond wishes to destroy No Deal and Boris by any means necessary. 

 

Oh and if he resigns Bozo is constitutionally bound to go to the Queen and recommend to her his successor, which would be the MP that has the most support for being the next PM. That means he has to go and tell the Queen to invite Corbyn to Buckingham Palace and make him the next Prime Minister.

The joy of victory is in our sights. I do hope so - the bitter vitriol of leavers betrayed will be music to my ears. There is also speculation that he had been drinking before his speech.

I appreciate your sentiments. Are you being mildly provocative I wonder - but of course you may well believe every word you said. Whatever, I am amused to see the rabid responses it has received from the usual quarters. Poor dears, their hero has lost his majority, lost his control of HoC business, lost his No deal brexit and lost his escape route attempt to get a GE. No surprise that they are dismayed. What is surprising is that none of these crushing defeats for the Prime Minister of the UK (top news in any normal world) has featured in the Express, Sun, Mail, or Telegraph. For them it's all about (Chicken) Corbyn refusing him a GE. It is the first rule of war for heavens sake, if your enemy DESPERATELY wants something, you don't let him have it. Let him stew in his own juice, the Tory party is falling apart around him. 

 

Hammond has ensured, as he always designed, the destruction of the Tory Party, the final demise of Brexit and the entrenchment of the first UK Marxist Government..................steady on I think Hammond is a real Tory, I don't think he has always planned the destruction of the Tory Party. He certainly wants to destroy No Deal and Boris by any means necessary, as do many millions of others. 

 

First UK Marxist government?? You are pulling our legs there. Nothing remotely like Marxist to me. The LP Leader is a left wing idealogical socialist, the bulk of the party are more to the centre left. There are some like Milne, Laverty, Murphy, and McLusky, who it would be fair to describe as looney left, their influence is waning. These people are always there on the fringes, the problem for the Tories is that the looney right have now come into the mainstream.

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

That is my point, these "parties" will always have a following...????

 

Just like you and many others, including MP's, are disregarding what the UK voted for. I find that a stab in the back to democracy...

The stab in the back for democracy was Boris Cummings prorogueing parliament for 5 weeks at a crucial time for Brexit. Please remember that the UK is a parliamentary democracy and the referendum was advisory.

 

You also need to accept the fact that if the referendum were held tomorrow, remain would win the day. If you disagree, call for a confirmatory vote.

[stevenl]

23 minutes ago, JAG said:

A parliamentary representative democracy  serves to represent  the wishes of those it represents, not what they (the representatives)  think is good for them (those who elect them).  That is why they are elected on a manifesto.  Both the Conservative  and Labour parties were elected on an emphatic manifesto  to take the UK out of the EU,  honouring the referendum result is the phrase  which comes to mind. The Tory rebels. And the Labour  party have openly and deliberately  reneged on that manifesto.  They should  face the electorate without delay.

No. They have to act in the interest of the country.

[DannyCarlton]

26 minutes ago, JAG said:

They should  face the electorate without delay.

A GE is based on a number of issues, not just Brexit. It's not a good guide as to the will of the people, re Brexit.

 

Better to take a single issue poll on Brexit alone. Like a confirmatory vote, without delay.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[Basil B]

34 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Better to take a single issue poll on Brexit alone. Like a confirmatory vote, without delay.

 

That could have been an option but now this government has lost all credibility.

 

The one thing that we can all agree on is we want an end to the uncertainty as soon as possible.

[transam]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

The stab in the back for democracy was Boris Cummings prorogueing parliament for 5 weeks at a crucial time for Brexit. Please remember that the UK is a parliamentary democracy and the referendum was advisory.

 

You also need to accept the fact that if the referendum were held tomorrow, remain would win the day. If you disagree, call for a confirmatory vote.

Seems that YOU have a problem remembering, as usual....

 

Cameron, as head of the political country, went on TV telling folk the referendum will be binding, that is what people voted for, to be released from the EU..

 

Now we have laughable folk like you stating what you think when the populace voted to leave....Keep bringing up daft stuff, even had the PM called a pig today..You are one of the bad losers, going on your own rampage.

Remember the Poll tax riots, yeh, Brits coming out of the woodwork smashing things up, for what...The UK does have oddballs, read a lot of odd stuff here..

[transam]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

The stab in the back for democracy was Boris Cummings prorogueing parliament for 5 weeks at a crucial time for Brexit. Please remember that the UK is a parliamentary democracy and the referendum was advisory.

 

You also need to accept the fact that if the referendum were held tomorrow, remain would win the day. If you disagree, call for a confirmatory vote.

More daft stuff....So you actually know who would win if there was another referendum.....Gawd....????

 

Your darlin Jeremy is against an election, you tell me why is that...?

Could it be he knows he will lose, you tell me, you are the insider.....

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, transam said:

More daft stuff....So you actually know who would win if there was another referendum.....Gawd....????

 

Your darlin Jeremy is against an election, you tell me why is that...?

Could it be he knows he will lose, you tell me, you are the insider.....

Only one way to find out who would win another referendum. You up for it?

 

Jeremy isn't "my darling". Labour now control the house why would the let Boris Cummings dictate the date of the election? Labour will call for an election when a no deal Brexit is dead and buried...after November 1st.

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

Only one way to find out who would win another referendum. You up for it?

 

Jeremy isn't "my darling". Labour now control the house why would the let Boris Cummings dictate the date of the election? Labour will call for an election when a no deal Brexit is dead and buried...after November 1st.

 

 

More daft stuff, the "binding" referendum was taken 3 years back, in my book that is it, not bowing to cry babies like yourself.

The Brexit stalemate is solely with the politicians, nothing to do with the electorate. I find it very odd that you do not understand that..  

[DannyCarlton]

17 minutes ago, transam said:

Seems that YOU have a problem remembering, as usual....

 

Cameron, as head of the political country, went on TV telling folk the referendum will be binding, that is what people voted for, to be released from the EU..

 

Now we have laughable folk like you stating what you think when the populace voted to leave....Keep bringing up daft stuff, even had the PM called a pig today..You are one of the bad losers, going on your own rampage.

Remember the Poll tax riots, yeh, Brits coming out of the woodwork smashing things up, for what...The UK does have oddballs, read a lot of odd stuff here..

If Cameron had wanted the referendum to be binding, he could have included that into the act. He didn't therefore it was advisory, same as all othe referendums. Cameron never used the word "binding". He promised that the result of the referendum would be enacted by Parliament.

 

1. He had no legal right to do that. The PM doesn't have the power to force parliament to do anything.

 

2. When has a PM kept his promises? Why do you think Cameron resigned? He knew that he couldn't keep his promise.

 

Me a loser? Have we left the EU or are we currently a full member of the EU?

[DannyCarlton]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

More daft stuff, the "binding" referendum was taken 3 years back, in my book that is it, not bowing to cry babies like yourself.

The Brexit stalemate is solely with the politicians, nothing to do with the electorate. I find it very odd that you do not understand that..  

Maybe "in your book" but not in law or the constitution of a democratic parliament. It's not all about you.

 

Oh I do understand that. The stalemate exists because Boris and the ERG refused to comply with the will of the people and twice voted against a perfectly acceptable agreement.

 

BTW. It was Cameron who also promised a confirmatory vote before the agreement was enacted. You can't hold him to one promise and not the other. 555

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[StreetCowboy]

36 minutes ago, transam said:

Seems that YOU have a problem remembering, as usual....

 

Cameron, as head of the political country, went on TV telling folk the referendum will be binding, that is what people voted for, to be released from the EU..

 

Now we have laughable folk like you stating what you think when the populace voted to leave....Keep bringing up daft stuff, even had the PM called a pig today..You are one of the bad losers, going on your own rampage.

Remember the Poll tax riots, yeh, Brits coming out of the woodwork smashing things up, for what...The UK does have oddballs, read a lot of odd stuff here..

If Boris and his mates had not blocked Brexit, we would be out by now.

[transam]

13 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

If Cameron had wanted the referendum to be binding, he could have included that into the act. He didn't therefore it was advisory, same as all othe referendums. Cameron never used the word "binding". He promised that the result of the referendum would be enacted by Parliament.

 

1. He had no legal right to do that. The PM doesn't have the power to force parliament to do anything.

 

2. When has a PM kept his promises? Why do you think Cameron resigned? He knew that he couldn't keep his promise.

 

Me a loser? Have we left the EU or are we currently a full member of the EU?

There you go again, just looking for something and ignoring what folk voted for...What are you going to find next to ignore what the UK voted for...

 

I can just imagine having a game of cards with you and you lose, asking to look up my sleeve......????

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, transam said:

There you go again, just looking for something and ignoring what folk voted for...What are you going to find next to ignore what the UK voted for...

 

I can just imagine having a game of cards with you and you lose, asking to look up my sleeve......????

Try making a point and I'll reply to it. I don't reply to boring , repetitve Brexiteer rhetoric.

 

I made several valid points and you haven't argued against any of them. Why? Brexiteeres have no argument. You have no game.