Texas shooter bought gun in private sale, after ban due to mental illness: ABC

[webfact]

Texas shooter bought gun in private sale, after ban due to mental illness: ABC

 

Seth Aaron Ator is pictured in Odessa, Texas, U.S. in this undated handout photo provided by the Odessa Police Department on September 3, 2019. Odessa Police Department/Handout via REUTERS

 

(Reuters) - The gunman who killed seven people and wounded 23 others in a rampage across West Texas on Saturday obtained the assault-style rifle used through a private sale after he was banned from having a firearm because he was diagnosed with a mental illness, media reported.

 

The gunman, identified as Seth Aaron Ator, 36, carried out the shooting spree in the neighbouring cities of Midland and Odessa, shortly after he was fired from his trucking job. He called local emergency 911 responders and then an FBI tip line to make rambling statements, but did not threaten to commit violence, officials said.

 

After the calls, Ator opened fire on civilians and police officers in a roving series of shootings, at one point hijacking a U.S. Postal Service truck before dying in an exchange of gunfire with law enforcement, police said.

 

Ator bought the assault-style rifle through a private sale after being prohibited by federal law from possessing a firearm because he had been diagnosed with a mental illness by a clinician, ABC news reported, citing federal and local law enforcement.

 

Private firearm sellers are not required to run background checks on potential buyers, but they are not allowed to sell a weapon to a person who has been flagged by law enforcement under federal law.

 

Democrats in Congress want to close such loopholes that allow certain people to sell firearms without requiring background checks, such as in sales conducted online, at gun shows or out of their homes.

 

Ator had been rejected when he tried to buy a gun and his name was run through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, said John Wester, assistant special agent in charge of the Dallas office of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

 

President Donald Trump called the Odessa-Midland shooter "a very sick person," but said increased background checks on gun buyers would not have prevented many mass shootings in the United States in the past few years.

 

Trump said last month he had spoken to the National Rifle Association gun rights group about closing loopholes in background checks, but he did not want to take away the constitutional right to own guns.

 

The rampage followed the Aug. 3 shooting in El Paso, Texas, by a man from the Dallas area, in a massacre that killed 22 people. El Paso is about 255 miles (410 km) west of Midland.

 

(Reporting by Brendan O'Brien in Chicago; Editing by Leslie Adler)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-09-04

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[Tug]

Ahhh I think all gun sales everywhere should have a through background checks with a 30 day plus waiting period sure it would slow gun sales so what?how about looking out for public safety over gun sales?

[SinCityGr8One]

There are 26,000 gun laws on the books at State and National levers. How many more are needed to curb another incident like this? 1,000, 5,000, 20,000? Enforce the laws in place instead. Chicago has the most restrictive laws in place. However it is Murder capitol in the US due to criminals having guns. Does anyone with some brain matter in their head think criminals would obey the laws? NO, they would not. Gun free zones are the biggest joke in the US as criminals think Yes, this is a Christmas present for them. Gun control to me is a steady aim.

Edited September 4, 2019 by SinCityGr8One

[PatOngo]

It's about time Americans got a free AR15 with every Big Mac and large fries they purchase!

"Upsize to bump stock?"

[bendejo]

He certainly had the mental wherewithal to figure out how to get past the laws.

 

 

[NokNokJoke]

He didn't get past the laws. Be broke them.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sfokevin]

I would ask the "Private Seller" a few questions...

Starting with - Did the teardrop tattoo on his face

cause you any pause before you handed him over the AR15?... 

Edited September 4, 2019 by sfokevin

[pegman]

2 hours ago, SinCityGr8One said:

There are 26,000 gun laws on the books at State and National levers. How many more are needed to curb another incident like this? 1,000, 5,000, 20,000? Enforce the laws in place instead. Chicago has the most restrictive laws in place. However it is Murder capitol in the US due to criminals having guns. Does anyone with some brain matter in their head think criminals would obey the laws? NO, they would not. Gun free zones are the biggest joke in the US as criminals think Yes, this is a Christmas present for them. Gun control to me is a steady aim.

 Restrictive gun laws work for other wealthy countries.  In Canada handguns are very restricted and in 2016 there were 130 hand gun murders.  In the United States in 2016 there were 7150 hand gun murders. Even taking into account that the differences in population  someone is much more likely to be murdered by handgun in the United States then in Canada. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510007201

[PatOngo]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump said last month he had spoken to the National Rifle Association gun rights group about closing loopholes in background checks, but he did not want to take away the constitutional right to own guns.

Yeee Haaa...Git er dun!

[Boon Mee]

2 hours ago, pegman said:

 Restrictive gun laws work for other wealthy countries.  In Canada handguns are very restricted and in 2016 there were 130 hand gun murders.  In the United States in 2016 there were 7150 hand gun murders. Even taking into account that the differences in population  someone is much more likely to be murdered by handgun in the United States then in Canada. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510007201

How well are they working in Chicago or Baltimore for example? 

 

[Sujo]

5 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

How well are they working in Chicago or Baltimore for example? 

 

Chicago and Baltimore are in the US. If its not working it needs fixing.

 

How is gun control working in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan etc.

 

 

[mtls2005]

I guess I'm surprised he was denied a gun owing to mental illness.

 

Sheesh, Texas, man up.

 

[from the home of CC]

7 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Chicago and Baltimore are in the US. If its not working it needs fixing.

 

How is gun control working in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan etc.

 

 

it's easy for a criminal to get a handgun in Canada, the lawful, not so much..

[DoctorG]

22 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

it's easy for a criminal to get a handgun in Canada, the lawful, not so much..

Same in OZ. Law-abiders cannot get but crims still use them every week, thankfully mostly against each other.

[mlmcleod]

I am a firm believer that every American has the right to own a black powder, muzzle loading musket just as the framers of the constitution wanted.  They never conceived of a world full of automatic weapons!

[TPI]

3 hours ago, Sujo said:

Chicago and Baltimore are in the US. If its not working it needs fixing.

 

How is gun control working in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan etc.

 

 

It's not, criminals have no problems obtaining a firearm in any of those countries, I'm not going to give you the references, look them up for yourself! In Australia there has never been a time where the general population had more firearms...and that is in spite of the draconian laws! ????

[Nyezhov]

9 minutes ago, mlmcleod said:

I am a firm believer that every American has the right to own a black powder, muzzle loading musket just as the framers of the constitution wanted.  They never conceived of a world full of automatic weapons!

You may very well be historically incorrect:

https://billypenn.com/2018/02/16/a-philly-friend-of-ben-franklin-may-have-invented-one-of-the-first-semi-automatic-weapons/#targetText=In 1777%2C Benjamin Franklin wrote,to destroy enemy war ships.

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Same in OZ. Law-abiders cannot get but crims still use them every week, thankfully mostly against each other.

Correct, which is why during home invasions and robberies it is unusual for them to use the gun. Which is why gun violence is low. You are also highly unlikely to be shot at a traffic stop because police arent scared you may have a gun.

 

Less guns has a positive effect on society as a whole.

 

Oh, oz also doesnt get too many mass shootings.

 

So thank you for proving my point

[Sujo]

2 minutes ago, TPI said:

It's not, criminals have no problems obtaining a firearm in any of those countries, I'm not going to give you the references, look them up for yourself! In Australia there has never been a time where the general population had more firearms...and that is in spite of the draconian laws! ????

There are strict laws on how you can get them and how you are to store them.

 

I suggest you read up on how to get a gun in japan, and how many mass shootings they have.

 

The harder it is to get guns the less gun violence.

[sirineou]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

 

Private firearm sellers are not required to run background checks on potential buyers, but they are not allowed to sell a weapon to a person who has been flagged by law enforcement under federal law.

But if they are not required to run background checks how will they know a person has being flagged?

[JMSIII]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

Ahhh I think all gun sales everywhere should have a through background checks with a 30 day plus waiting period sure it would slow gun sales so what?how about looking out for public safety over gun sales?

They were looking out for public safety.  He was denied a legal purchase because of his mental problems, and criminal background.

 

3 hours ago, Sujo said:

Chicago and Baltimore are in the US. If its not working it needs fixing.

 

How is gun control working in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan etc.

 

 

Chicago has some of the strictest laws in the US.  What you don't hear in the news about Chicago is the typical weekend of 30-40 shootings by black gangs.  This is almost every weekend in Chicago and Baltimore.  Chicago averages about 600 black on black homicides every year, and Baltimore averages 300 black on black homicides a year.   Both have been run by the Democrats for probably 50+ years, and CNN won't report this. Gun violence by black gangs has been out of control since the 80's, and why are the Democrats not screaming for controlling criminals with guns??   Where is the black lives matter outrage over this??

 

8 hours ago, bendejo said:

He certainly had the mental wherewithal to figure out how to get past the laws.

 

 

Most criminals do...

 

7 hours ago, sfokevin said:

I would ask the "Private Seller" a few questions...

Starting with - Did the teardrop tattoo on his face

cause you any pause before you handed him over the AR15?... 

When the private seller is a criminal, selling a gun to another criminal.   What questions would help in a criminal transaction...

[off road pat]

14 hours ago, NokNokJoke said:

He didn't get past the laws. Be broke them.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Hmm,...he got the gun lawfully despite the law forbidding him to have one !!!! nice loopholes...

 

[bendejo]

DT should declare that all of his rallies and campaign events allow for open-carry.  Every patriotic Trump supporter should be proud of their 2nd Amendment rights.  Criminal record and mental incompetence is no reason to deny a patriot of their access to Constitutional rights.  Anyone who disagrees with this is a communist, a Democrat, Islamic terrorist, etc.

 

 

[stevenl]

12 hours ago, JMSIII said:

They were looking out for public safety.  He was denied a legal purchase because of his mental problems, and criminal background.

 

Chicago has some of the strictest laws in the US.  What you don't hear in the news about Chicago is the typical weekend of 30-40 shootings by black gangs.  This is almost every weekend in Chicago and Baltimore.  Chicago averages about 600 black on black homicides every year, and Baltimore averages 300 black on black homicides a year.   Both have been run by the Democrats for probably 50+ years, and CNN won't report this. Gun violence by black gangs has been out of control since the 80's, and why are the Democrats not screaming for controlling criminals with guns??   Where is the black lives matter outrage over this??

 

Most criminals do...

 

When the private seller is a criminal, selling a gun to another criminal.   What questions would help in a criminal transaction...

Plenty of information on that everywhere.

 

The problem is nationwide too many guns, so it has to be solved nationwide. States can introduce legislation, but with guns moved from one place to the next that doesn't help very much.

[Curt1591]

Criminals buy, sell, steal and share guns, "privately", every day.

 

When I have bought / sold guns, "privately", they needed to pass through a licensed dealer (FFL). 

Since this license is issued by the ATF, a federal agency, one might presume that this might actually be a nationwide requirement.

There is a good chance this gun was registered at some point. But, will authorities hunt down the chain? Doubtful ...

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Curt1591

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

Criminals buy, sell, steal and share guns, "privately", every day.

 

When I have bought / sold guns, "privately", they needed to pass through a licensed dealer (FFL). 

Since this license is issued by the ATF, a federal agency, one might presume that this might actually be a nationwide requirement.

There is a good chance this gun was registered at some point. But, will authorities hunt down the chain? Doubtful ...

 

Criminals commit all short of crimes, that's why we have laws. 

as far as private gun sales are concerned 

"Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue.  "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

[Curt1591]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Criminals commit all short of crimes, that's why we have laws.

Hilarious.

Maybe if we made more laws, we can create more criminals!

My sales / purchases have been in States that do require FFL scrutiny. 

Now, if there was a licensing system for those who, for whatever reason, feel encumbered by waits and individual checks, maybe gun owners might buy into the federal system. Unfortunately, the only licensing proposals have included all gun owners which is unacceptable to most.

[Blue Muton]

23 hours ago, SinCityGr8One said:

There are 26,000 gun laws on the books at State and National levers. How many more are needed to curb another incident like this? 1,000, 5,000, 20,000? Enforce the laws in place instead. Chicago has the most restrictive laws in place. However it is Murder capitol in the US due to criminals having guns. Does anyone with some brain matter in their head think criminals would obey the laws? NO, they would not. Gun free zones are the biggest joke in the US as criminals think Yes, this is a Christmas present for them. Gun control to me is a steady aim.

Never heard of quality over quantity? What is required is simply one piece of effective legislation, which would clearly be one more than there is now.

[NokNokJoke]

Before I left the US to come to Thailand last month, I sold 8 guns I had accumulated over the last 40 years.

I sold them to licensed dealers, some I lost some $$ on, but kind of broke even since a few had appreciated .  (Nothing collectible or historical)

 

I would not do a private sale except to somebody I knew WELL, for years.   The guns were purchased legally, owned legally, and sold legally.  My butt is covered.   (Even for the one rifle stolen 35 years ago, a police report with serial number was filed.)

[mtls2005]

The Second Ammendment doesn't exclude crazy folks from bearing arms.

 

I'm sure the founding fathers would be aghast that anyone is preventing any (sane or otherwise) "citizens" from owning guns.

 

We just need more "good guys with guns", that'll solve the problem.

 

Crazy people can get a driver's license.

 

As trump says, 'it's a slippery slope" once you start limiting access to guns.

 

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221