Top 10 Places to be an Expat? Thailand isn't one of them.

[Sujo]

14 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Indonesia is OK and it didn't even make the list. Lots of people though.

Agree, lots of good things about indo but the big issue is traffic

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

The food is nowhere near as good as Thailand, the native Malay are extremely unhelpful and unfriendly and the nightlife, apart from a couple of areas of KL, is terrible. I will never visit Malasia again. By far the worst country in S.E. Asia. Survey is complete nonsense.

 

 

Where were you staying that had no nitelife? The only places i have struggled to find nitelife is kelantan and kedah. 

 

Of course KL has many many areas for good nitelife, not just a couple. They are everywhere in KL.  Just some places around malaysia that are good are Melacca, Johor, Penang, Langkawi, kota Kinabalu, Kuching. 

 

the native malays are anything but unhelpful. They are generally very kind.

[HampiK]

I think most people here reading this wrong. This map is talking about expats (persons who choose a country for working reasons) not for foreigners who spend their holidays/retirement in a foreign country!

 

Working in a country is complet different to retirement in a country!

[rumak]

11 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

Because it's all about personal opinion, and what you make of life.

I am more than happy here, and have no intention of leaving. 

even a simple positive statement like this brings out the sad and confused emojis.   Hhahahah  what can one do but laugh

[RoadWarrior371]

11 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Parts of Malaysia have a better girly scene than Vietnam.

Yeh, but that is like saying Greenland has a better beach than Iceland.  It's all relative.

[donnacha]

It will take a few years for the effects of recent innovations, such as the TM30, to be reflected in these lists. I am absolutely certain, however, that the Thai government are inflicting permanent damage to their reputation as a leading destination for westerners. That may be deliberate, it may be accidental, it does not really matter. The golden goose, if not dead, will certainly soon be on life support.

Vietnam is the most obvious threat to Thailand on that list. Their government, although authoritarian, is not stupid. For decades, they have regarded with envy Thailand's easy access to tourists and the billions in foreign currency they reliably deliver every year, even during recessions.

Now that the Thai's no longer need us, the Viets are more than happy to snap up that role. It is notable that the Viet gov are far less enamored by China than the Thai gov is - Western tourism and retirement gives them a path to accelerated economic growth without having to become a satellite state of China.

For Europeans, the appearance of Portugal at #3 and Spain at #8 reflect something I have been thinking for a few years now: as Thailand continues to become more expensive and bureaucratic, and as the feeling grows that real hostility to Westerners lurks increasingly close to the surface, the Iberian peninsula looks better and better, especially for those with EU passports. 

In just the last few days we have seen that the Thai government now plans to make double-pricing for farangs official policy in government hospitals. This will no doubt drive up the cost of private medical care by the same proportion. Rents, too, are being driven up by an increase in red tape for landlords with foreign tenants, already leading some to simply refuse them.

It feels disorientating to realize that in Portugal and Spain, you can not only rent with all the consumer rights of a local, but also receive modern, first-world health care (significantly better than the National Health Service in the UK) for free. Infrastructure in general is light years ahead. Double-pricing is illegal. Traffic is 8 times less lethal. The air is significantly less polluted. Gyms are better equipped, cleaner and better value for money. Broadband internet is faster, less saturated and more directly connected to the major backbones.

Almost everyone you deal with has functional English, including the competent, non-corrupt officials. You never have to waste an afternoon in an immigration office. There is no need to watch the calendar and fly out for no real reason.

Alcohol in bars seems to be around the same price as Thailand and far cheaper in supermarkets. Restaurants are good and reasonably priced (more expensive than Thai street food but less that higher quality Thai restaurants). Supermarkets are cheaper and the vegetables follow standards on pesticides that you could only dream of in Thailand. I guess accommodation is still cheaper in Thailand, but the difference is not that big, the gap could easily close if the baht continues to strengthen.

Girls? Hookers? I don't know. I suppose the bar scene in Portugal and Spain is less accessible, less fun for old guys. I suppose local girls are far less interested in foreigners. But is Thailand still really all that much fun? Is that stuff even all that much cheaper than it would be in Czechia (#10) or Bulgaria (#11)?

If girls are really your main focus, I reckon The Philippines is a better bet, it is like Thailand was 30 years ago, they are still mostly in awe of Westerners. Perhaps the best plan is to find a great girl in the Philippines and live together in Vietnam, reassuringly far away from her family.

My plan was to retire in Thailand, to enjoy the relaxed atmosphere, but I am increasingly wondering if I am mainly driven by my memories of a Thailand that is long gone. I ask myself what the point is of sticking €24K in a Thai bank if I still have to report my movements as if I was some sort of sex offender. It is all just so pointlessly stupid and insulting.

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by donnacha

[DannyCarlton]

37 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Where were you staying that had no nitelife? The only places i have struggled to find nitelife is kelantan and kedah. 

 

Of course KL has many many areas for good nitelife, not just a couple. They are everywhere in KL.  Just some places around malaysia that are good are Melacca, Johor, Penang, Langkawi, kota Kinabalu, Kuching. 

 

the native malays are anything but unhelpful. They are generally very kind.

YMMV. I spent 2 nights in Jahor Baru, the 2 most boring nights of my life. Penang (Georgetown) wasn't much better, I couldn't wait to get out of the place. I could tell you a bunch of stories about unhelpful, rude Malays. Chinese Malays, the opposite.

[Cadbury]

Top 10 Places to be an Expat? Thailand isn't one of them

What more proof is needed that the PM's policy on eradicating expats is working.

[Biikqth]

1 hour ago, donnacha said:

It will take a few years for the effects of recent innovations, such as the TM30, to be reflected in these lists. I am absolutely certain, however, that the Thai government are inflicting permanent damage to their reputation as a leading destination for westerners. That may be deliberate, it may be accidental, it does not really matter. The golden goose, if not dead, will certainly soon be on life support.

Vietnam is the most obvious threat to Thailand on that list. Their government, although authoritarian, is not stupid. For decades, they have regarded with envy Thailand's easy access to tourists and the billions in foreign currency they reliably deliver every year, even during recessions.

Now that the Thai's no longer need us, the Viets are more than happy to snap up that role. It is notable that the Viet gov are far less enamored by China than the Thai gov is - Western tourism and retirement gives them a path to accelerated economic growth without having to become a satellite state of China.

For Europeans, the appearance of Portugal at #3 and Spain at #8 reflect something I have been thinking for a few years now: as Thailand continues to become more expensive and bureaucratic, and as the feeling grows that real hostility to Westerners lurks increasingly close to the surface, the Iberian peninsula looks better and better, especially for those with EU passports. 

In just the last few days we have seen that the Thai government now plans to make double-pricing for farangs official policy in government hospitals. This will no doubt drive up the cost of private medical care by the same proportion. Rents, too, are being driven up by an increase in red tape for landlords with foreign tenants, already leading some to simply refuse them.

It feels disorientating to realize that in Portugal and Spain, you can not only rent with all the consumer rights of a local, but also receive modern, first-world health care (significantly better than the National Health Service in the UK) for free. Infrastructure in general is light years ahead. Double-pricing is illegal. Traffic is 8 times less lethal. The air is significantly less polluted. Gyms are better equipped, cleaner and better value for money. Broadband internet is faster, less saturated and more directly connected to the major backbones.

Almost everyone you deal with has functional English, including the competent, non-corrupt officials. You never have to waste an afternoon in an immigration office. There is no need to watch the calendar and fly out for no real reason.

Alcohol in bars seems to be around the same price as Thailand and far cheaper in supermarkets. Restaurants are good and reasonably priced (more expensive than Thai street food but less that higher quality Thai restaurants). Supermarkets are cheaper and the vegetables follow standards on pesticides that you could only dream of in Thailand. I guess accommodation is still cheaper in Thailand, but the difference is not that big, the gap could easily close if the baht continues to strengthen.

Girls? Hookers? I don't know. I suppose the bar scene in Portugal and Spain is less accessible, less fun for old guys. I suppose local girls are far less interested in foreigners. But is Thailand still really all that much fun? Is that stuff even all that much cheaper than it would be in Czechia (#10) or Bulgaria (#11)?

If girls are really your main focus, I reckon The Philippines is a better bet, it is like Thailand was 30 years ago, they are still mostly in awe of Westerners. Perhaps the best plan is to find a great girl in the Philippines and live together in Vietnam, reassuringly far away from her family.

My plan was to retire in Thailand, to enjoy the relaxed atmosphere, but I am increasingly wondering if I am mainly driven by my memories of a Thailand that is long gone. I ask myself what the point is of sticking €24K in a Thai bank if I still have to report my movements as if I was some sort of sex offender. It is all just so pointlessly stupid and insulting.

 

My Thai sister-in-law (before retiring) used to be the finance director for a substantial European company operating in Thailand. She Is a very smart person and was a hard-working, no-nonsense business person. After returning from a visit to Vietnam she mentioned to me that she would not be surprised if Vietnam overtakes Thailand in economic development because of the Vietnamese government’s stability and commitment to development, the discipline and work ethic of the Vietnamese people and, importantly lower costs. I have little doubt she is correct. Some businesses are now relocating from China because of lower costs and with increasing trade links with western countries I expect Vietnam will likely attract more large-scale investment in manufacturing and tourism.

As a consequence far more westerners and people from places such as Japan are likely to visit, work and live in Vietnam. It is quite possible therefore that we will also see Vietnam becoming more open and attractive and accessible for expat retirees. While no doubt some expats will leave Thailand many will stay because of families, long-established lifestyles and business. Personally, as a retiree, I like the more easy-going Thai people (as distinct from the government bureaucrats).

Edited September 6, 2019 by Biikqth

[donnacha]

41 minutes ago, Biikqth said:

It is quite possible therefore that we will also see Vietnam becoming more open and attractive and accessible for expat retirees.

I think you are right. The one year multiple-entry tourist visa available to US citizens for $220 with no bank deposit or other onerous requirements is a perfect example of how they can tempt foreigners currently based in Thailand to at least try Vietnam.

 

 

41 minutes ago, Biikqth said:

While no doubt some expats will leave Thailand many will stay because of families, long-established lifestyles and business. Personally, as a retiree, I like the more easy-going Thai people (as distinct from the government bureaucrats).

Like you, I am biased towards Thailand through familiarity and existing contacts here. It requires practically zero effort to make myself comfortable. As a non-retiree who has been here for a few decades, however, the increasing visa restrictions since the coup have forced me to spend substantial periods of time in other Asian countries. I was surprised to find just how comfortable I was in Vietnam and the Philippines, once I figured out the right destinations for me within them (I avoid the big cities).

All of these countries have been steadily advancing, while Thailand has been moving backwards in the things that made it special for me, most particularly the sense of fun - I have never been much of a drinker but the crackdown on nightlife drained a lot of the sparkle out of Thailand. The atmosphere in general has been more serious since the coup.

Vietnam will never be a straightforward replacement, but there is a real sense of excitement there that is currently missing in Thailand. It is certainly cheaper than Thailand and the women are equally open to meeting western men, perhaps even more so. Strangely, Vietnam is also a great place to meet filipinas ????

Thailand's main problem is that, the more they push hostile bureaucratic nonsense such as TM30, the more precisely they kill what brought most of us here in the first place. I deeply suspect they do not understand that there is a breaking point, that Westerners are flexible enough to consider alternatives. Is it possible that even more restrictions, requirements, and additional expenses are on the way? I fear so.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by donnacha

[Biikqth]

24 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Thailand's main problem is that, the more they push hostile bureaucratic nonsense such as TM30, the more precisely they kill what brought most of us here in the first place. I deeply suspect they do not understand that there is a breaking point, that Westerners are flexible enough to consider alternatives. Is it possible that even more restrictions, requirements, and additional expenses are on the way? I fear so.

I agree and, as I posted on another similar topic, I suspect that the government will change nothing until or unless a substantial foreign company, such as a motor manufacturer, says it is relocating from Thailand because the rules (such as the TM30 requirement) are making its staff unhappy and/or they are unable to attract senior non-thai staff. Then there might be a sudden change in attitude.

[malibukid]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:35 PM, CGW said:

& a lot of Malaysia is Muslim & alcohol is banned, as Islam is the prevalent religion and becoming stronger the country is going to start to go backward!

Agree about the food, it is good, much preferable to Thai food as so much more variety, I lived in there for a few years.

i can find my shoe size in KL and better customer service across the board, thank the English for that.

Edited September 7, 2019 by malibukid

[Sujo]

On 9/6/2019 at 11:09 AM, DannyCarlton said:

YMMV. I spent 2 nights in Jahor Baru, the 2 most boring nights of my life. Penang (Georgetown) wasn't much better, I couldn't wait to get out of the place. I could tell you a bunch of stories about unhelpful, rude Malays. Chinese Malays, the opposite.

Johor is not my cup of tea. But many from singapore come over the causeway to party on weekends. Do its ok if u know where to go.

 

Georgetown is one of my favourite places. Has lots to do there and I love penang. Except for the traffic on the bridge. 

 

I dont do niteclubs so much. More of just sit in a nice bar for beers with friends and found penang great for me. Horses for courses.

 

Personally i find the malays more nice and helpful than the chinese malays. Malays can be scared of westerners as their english maybe not so good and I have heard them talking about being too afraid to serve a customer due to that, and that a lot of westerners can get a bit abrupt if their order isnt exact.

 

As for the poster saying no alcohol in malaysia because its muslim, welk he has obviously never been to the country.

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Johor is not my cup of tea. But many from singapore come over the causeway to party on weekends. Do its ok if u know where to go.

I eventually found somewhere a taxi ride out of town, the Marina. I bar 1 nightclub. Spent the evening with an Indian businessman who lived in Singapore and, as you say, came over to JB for the weekends. Still boring as hell and got zero interaction from male or female Malays.

[Razzler1973]

It always depends how they measure these things, which criteria but Bahrain is number 7, I live in the Middle East and ... nah