water pump difference / with air tank without one

[robblok]

My water pump needs replacement i got one with an air expansion i think (sorry dont know the English term) but now they sell them without too from Hitachi same model just not the air expansion. Its only a bit difference but what is the difference and what could go wrong if i buy the other one without air. Its smaller and supposedly better. I am not good so I will let a plumber install it but I hate to buy something new and later find out its not suitable for what i have.

[KhunBENQ]

The attached (small) pressure tank has the advantage that the pump is not engaged (on/off) that often.
It should enhance pump life and save a bit of power consumption (switching on draws high current).

Noise is the same when pump is running but still better when it cycles less often.

I hated that frequent on/off before I installed the pump with the pressure tank.

I would even favor a bigger separate pressure tank (which could then be combined with the "normal" pump).

I have a Mitsubishi WP255. Must be 5 years old now (I should really do some bookkeeping).

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[MickTurator]

I also hated the frequent on/off cycle especially  when having a shower.

I used an old hot water tank that I had as a pressure tank.

It's 150 litres so the pump only switches on a few times a day.

 

So in answer to robblok. You can use either type of pump but you may need to add a pressure tank.

[Ron jeremy]

A pressure tank should be used in this type of system.much easier on the pump.

[timendres]

2 hours ago, MickTurator said:

I also hated the frequent on/off cycle especially  when having a shower.

I used an old hot water tank that I had as a pressure tank.

It's 150 litres so the pump only switches on a few times a day.

The other advantage being that you can still have water pressure during brief electricity outages.

[tonboy]

1 minute ago, timendres said:

The other advantage being that you can still have water pressure during brief electricity outages.

nonsense.. yes, for 2 seconds maybe, but that is it.

[timendres]

1 minute ago, tonboy said:

nonsense.. yes, for 2 seconds maybe, but that is it.

My tank in the US is 50 gallons, and will provide pressured water in the shower for almost 5 minutes with no electricity. Enough time to rinse the shampoo from your hair.

[robblok]

Thanks guys, I am good at many things.. but DIY is not one of them. All your replies made it easier for me to decide. For some reason the air pressure tank on goes out after a few years. The pump is inside the house so its not as if its exposed to the elements that much.

 

I have the mishubishi wt-p250xs wil probably replace it with the same. 

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Thanks guys, I am good at many things.. but DIY is not one of them. All your replies made it easier for me to decide. For some reason the air pressure tank on goes out after a few years. The pump is inside the house so its not as if its exposed to the elements that much.

Do you mean that it has started to leak? If so then the tank is replaceable. If it isn't leaking then it probably needs to be drained, a not uncommon case and simple for anyone to do.

 

Only if the pump has totally failed would a replacement be needed.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Do you mean that it has started to leak? If so then the tank is replaceable. If it isn't leaking then it probably needs to be drained, a not uncommon case and simple for anyone to do.

 

Only if the pump has totally failed would a replacement be needed.

How do i know if it is leaking ?.  How would i drain it ?

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

How do i know if it is leaking ?.  How would i drain it ?

You would know if it is leaking by finding water coming out of the pressure tank that is the thing under the top round cover.

 

you would drain it by first unplugging the pump, then you will find a reasonably small bolt around the bottom of the pressure tank <the round metal tank you can see under the round plastic cover.>

unscrew the bolt, if water comes out, very likely after so long in use, wait until the water stops coming out then screw the bolt back in, plug in the pump, and congratulate yourself on saving the cost of a new pump.

 

the details are in the manual that came with your pump. If you've threw it away then DAGS for the manuel it is available.

Edited September 7, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[robblok]

11 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You would know if it is leaking by finding water coming out of the pressure tank that is the thing under the top round cover.

 

you would drain it by first unplugging the pump, then you will find a reasonably small bolt around the bottom of the pressure tank <the round metal tank you can see under the round plastic cover.>

unscrew the bolt, if water comes out, very likely after so long in use, wait until the water stops coming out then screw the bolt back in, plug in the pump, and congratulate yourself on saving the cost of a new pump.

 

the details are in the manual that came with your pump. If you've threw it away then DAGS for the manuel it is available.

Thanks i found a bolt.. plastic screw type with a seal. I loosened and water came rushing out but it kept rushing out. So i though that is too much. Closed the water intake vaulve and tried again.. water came rushing out again but at slower pace. After some liters in a low bucket it slowed down .. closed the bolt. Turned the water on plugged the pump back in and now the pump is working as it should. I am quite happy saved me around 7000 bt. Not to mention a lot of headache. 

 

Real real happy thank you sometimewoodworker. 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Thanks i found a bolt.. plastic screw type with a seal. I loosened and water came rushing out but it kept rushing out. So i though that is too much. Closed the water intake vaulve and tried again.. water came rushing out again but at slower pace. After some liters in a low bucket it slowed down .. closed the bolt. Turned the water on plugged the pump back in and now the pump is working as it should. I am quite happy saved me around 7000 bt. Not to mention a lot of headache. 

 

Real real happy thank you sometimewoodworker. 

Thanks for the kind words

 

Now you have demonstrated that fix you have ½ your DIY credentials. Did you do part 2 of the fix? ???? 

 

 

if so then you get the other ½, if not then you are going to have the problem again quite soon.

 

For extra credit do you have the manual or did you DAGS it and get a copy? If you did This may even move beyond 1st grade DIY ???? 

 

My tipple is a virtual beer ???? ????

Edited September 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[robblok]

Hi,

 

I did find and download the manual, I did not clean the aerator (could only find an air charger on the parts name). So i probably have to repeat this procedure again. 

 

I did not understand what you meant with DAGS it .. i just searched for the manual until i found it. i am good with computers not with DIY. 

 

I will look more for the aerator.

 

 

[tonboy]

On 9/6/2019 at 10:39 PM, timendres said:

My tank in the US is 50 gallons, and will provide pressured water in the shower for almost 5 minutes with no electricity. Enough time to rinse the shampoo from your hair.

in Thailand watertanks are made of plastic, and at groundlevel or below the ground. No way you can keep this pressurised. I guess you have your watertank in the usa minimal 5 meter above the tappoint. 

 

[timendres]

1 hour ago, tonboy said:

in Thailand watertanks are made of plastic, and at groundlevel or below the ground. No way you can keep this pressurised. I guess you have your watertank in the usa minimal 5 meter above the tappoint. 

In the US, we use steel tanks with bladder pressurizers. They are tall tanks. I cannot remember the pressure setting, but it is significant. I don't know if Thailand has tanks like this, as I have never checked for one.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 9/8/2019 at 10:22 AM, robblok said:

I did not understand what you meant with DAGS it .. i just searched for the manual until i found it. i am good with computers not with DIY. 

DAGS = Do A Google Search

 

So +  a half point for finding a manual, but - ¼ for being computer literate but missing the above.

 

If you find and clean the aerator then you qualify as a certified DIYer. You may need to call Hitachi service and talk to an English speaking engineer 

 

GT says that the Thai reads "Remove the water from the tank and clean the air feeder." Hitachi's translation Remove the water out of the and clean the aerator.  Is similar but not exactly the same

 

So there is a way for the pump to feed air into the pressure tank that can become blocked so leading the tank to become waterlogged over time as the air dissolves into the water 

 

I often use this Pointed example search method for those who can't be bothered to do the minimal work and just want others to do it for them, also point them to This forum as they probably belong there ???? Note I'm not suggesting you need the first or belong in the second.

[sometimewoodworker]

10 hours ago, timendres said:

In the US, we use steel tanks with bladder pressurizers. They are tall tanks. I cannot remember the pressure setting, but it is significant. I don't know if Thailand has tanks like this, as I have never checked for one.

You can get them but they are not cheap, I was looking into one as an extra for my air compressor.