Visa exemption questions

[kimamey]

I'm 65 UK citizen married to a Thai national. Over the years since I first visited Thailand I've used various types of visas. My last non imm O ran out late last year but I decided not to renew it as my plans meant I would arrive in Thailand 22 March then leave 12 April for a holiday with my wife with a return on 5 May. I came back to the UK on 9 June so that was 36 days. I could have paid for an extension but instead we decided to take a trip over the Lao border on the 2 June due to events preventing us getting to the immigration office during the week. That's the first time we've ever crossed both ways on the same day.

 

Normally I have no trouble getting a non imm visa as I'm in the UK for about 3 months working so I can show bank statements and I have enough in the bank. For various reasons that isn't the case at the moment and I just have money from a flat I rent out. I want to take a trip back so my only option is another visa exemption. Is there any reason I might have problems?  I've looked at the restrictions on VEs and it's 3 in 6 months for arrivals by air and 2 by land. How does that work when there's air and land crossings? 

[BritTim]

The two visa exempts by land in a calendar year rule is real. There is no official limit on visa exempt entries by air. At several airports, immigration will use guidelines given them in mid 2014 to the effect that visa exempt entries should not be allowed when used to stay longer than is necessary for tourism purposes. You would be better off getting a visa of some description for your visit. Visa exempt entries by air by those with a long history of stays in Thailand is never risk free. That said, if you have not been in Thailand for six months, the odds would be well in your favour.

[kimamey]

15 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The two visa exempts by land in a calendar year rule is real. There is no official limit on visa exempt entries by air. At several airports, immigration will use guidelines given them in mid 2014 to the effect that visa exempt entries should not be allowed when used to stay longer than is necessary for tourism purposes. You would be better off getting a visa of some description for your visit. Visa exempt entries by air by those with a long history of stays in Thailand is never risk free. That said, if you have not been in Thailand for six months, the odds would be well in your favour.

Actually I've just spoken to my wife and it looks as if I've got the numbers wrong for the number of visits.

 

It's '30 days at one time with a maximum of 3 times in a 6-month period by flight and 2 times a year for overland crossing.'

 

That would be a total of 6 in a year by air.  If it really means 'and' then that's 2 by land which is 8. It's a bit vague to be honest but I've no intention of going that far. 

 

The problem with other visas is financial due to an unheard of lack of work in the UK.  I'm hoping that will improve by the end of the year but if not there are pensions that I can use.  That's not possible at the moment. I could try a tourist visa but I'm not sure what's required in terms of finance.  I'd be paying for something I probably don't need. I could stay slightly longer than 30 days but that's difficult as the Embassy website doesn't mention extensions for VEs although I know they're available. When I came back in May Thai immigration never questioned that I used a VE but had a flight that was in 36 days time.  At Heathrow Gulf Air check in did question it and had to check with a supervisor. I could just book a flight of less than 30 days then change it after getting an extension but that can be expensive. 

Just looking at my passport again. My current one just shows from my arrival on 22 March and I only have VEs since then.  My old passport shows the flight before that was on a VE as well but that was due to my wife's brother in law passing away on the 2nd January so I took a flight on 3rd and returned on 26 January. There was no time for anything else.  

 

Unless my calculations are incorrect I've only spent 81 days in Thailand so far this year. No wonder I'm getting on so well with the wife. 

[cornishcarlos]

You can't get multi entry Non O in U.K any more. You can still get one in Savannakhet with no proof of funds... 

[kimamey]

29 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

You can't get multi entry Non O in U.K any more. You can still get one in Savannakhet with no proof of funds... 

That might be an option although I'm hoping the financial will sort itself out. That might be worn it to be on the safe side

[BritTim]

48 minutes ago, kimamey said:

It's '30 days at one time with a maximum of 3 times in a 6-month period by flight and 2 times a year for overland crossing.'

As I stated in my earlier post, although various "rules" are sometimes quoted (including the one you cite) for visa exempt by air, there is in fact no official limit. You cannot rely on being allowed a visa exempt entry just because you have not had three in the last six months. It is purely at immigration's discretion.

[Tanoshi]

It really depends how many times, frequency and length of stays in a year before an IO decides your spending to much time in Thailand as a 'Tourist'.

 

You can enter Visa exempt for 30 days and obtain a 30 days extension 1,900 baht at Immigration.

You shouldn't have an issue doing that 2/3 times a year.

 

The other option already mentioned is to enter Visa exempt, then obtain a Non Imm O ME Visa from Savannakhet (no financials required). The Visa is valid 1 year and each entry allows a stay of 90 days.

You can extend the 90 days by another 60 days, 1,900 baht at Immigration when married to a Thai.

 

It really depends on your frequency of visits and planned length of stays.

[timendres]

Your biggest worry, as highlighted by numerous postings on TVF, is that IO's at Suvanabhumi and Don Muaeng have been denying entry to numerous people even in cases where the person met all criteria. So, if you are going to take a change on the VE, be sure to cover every requirement, and have a plan B in the case of denial.

[Matzzon]

Yes you might have problems.

[kimamey]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

As I stated in my earlier post, although various "rules" are sometimes quoted (including the one you cite) for visa exempt by air, there is in fact no official limit. You cannot rely on being allowed a visa exempt entry just because you have not had three in the last six months. It is purely at immigration's discretion.

That's a copy and paste from the Thai Embassy website so outs the official lounge which is why I  posted it but as you say that means very little and of course even with a visa immigration can stop you.  To be honest if I tried to use a VE 6 or 8 times in a year I'd expect to be stopped. 

[BritTim]

16 hours ago, kimamey said:

That's a copy and paste from the Thai Embassy website so outs the official lounge which is why I  posted it but as you say that means very little and of course even with a visa immigration can stop you.  To be honest if I tried to use a VE 6 or 8 times in a year I'd expect to be stopped. 

Sigh! I do not expect you to believe me, but Thai embassy/consulate websites, and the Thai consular officials are terrible sources of information on anything other than the services they provide themselves. There are many incorrect statements to be found on the different websites which often conflict with each other. There has never been any officially announced limits on visa exempt entries by air, other than those from mid 2014 which instructed immigration to deny visa exempt entries to stay in Thailand longer than necessary for tourism purposes (and which the prime minister said should be "applied flexibly"). Unofficially, I have no doubt that immigration officials at some airports have guidelines they follow (and it is reasonable that immigration should have discretion over granting visa exempt entries) but there are no universal rules that are followed, and it depends on the airport used and individual immigration officials.

[emptypockets]

16 hours ago, kimamey said:

hat's a copy and paste from the Thai Embassy website so outs the official lounge which is why I  posted it but as you say that means very little and of course even with a visa immigration can stop you.  To be honest if I tried to use a VE 6 or 8 times in a year I'd expect to be stopped. 

And yet I , and a work colleague, have used the VE system for five years entering on average maybe 8 time a year without hassles at all. Never staying more than 14 days usually. Occasionally longer. There is NO limit to VE entries regardless of the legendary 6 that has become fact on this forum. It belongs in the same bin as the 180 days per year legend on a tourist visa. Doesn't exist in my practical experience.

 

All the so called experts on this forum tend to forget that for every denial there is usually a back story that people never get to see. The so called experts regurgitate what is posted on here. How many actually have practical hands on, recent, personal, experience?

Not knocking them but it needs to be balanced with what happens in reality to most travellers.

 

For example it's not unusual to see some ( young, and I don't hold that against them at all, I was young once, still am in heart and mind) serial visa runner whine about the Io's at swampy denying him entry based on some flawed logic. What the denied person never says is that they've lived in Thailand on all sorts of work arounds be it ED visas or whatever for 5 years and probably working at the same time.

I very much doubt the OP will even get a look from the IO and enter the same as 30 odd million people doing the right thing do every year.

Edited September 7, 2019 by emptypockets

[emptypockets]

Direct response to OP. Fill in your entry from and tick reason for visit other/friends whatever it says, but write to visit wife next to it.. Put her address on where you are staying in Thailand. The IO does read this and many times have commented on my staying in Isaan. Many of them come from there.

If your via history is as you say I very much doubt you will have an issue. Have the wifes phone number handy on your phone if confirmation of anything is needed.

[kimamey]

22 hours ago, BritTim said:

Sigh! I do not expect you to believe me, but Thai embassy/consulate websites, and the Thai consular officials are terrible sources of information on anything other than the services they provide themselves. There are many incorrect statements to be found on the different websites which often conflict with each other. There has never been any officially announced limits on visa exempt entries by air, other than those from mid 2014 which instructed immigration to deny visa exempt entries to stay in Thailand longer than necessary for tourism purposes (and which the prime minister said should be "applied flexibly"). Unofficially, I have no doubt that immigration officials at some airports have guidelines they follow (and it is reasonable that immigration should have discretion over granting visa exempt entries) but there are no universal rules that are followed, and it depends on the airport used and individual immigration officials.

I'm not sure what you're sighing for. I haven't disagreed with you or suggested I don't believe you.  I was merely pointing out that the numbers I posted were from the Thai Embassy website which is obviously the first place to check when looking for visa Information rather than something I'd just heard somewhere. Also as I pointed out I'd misread what was on the website as I thought the air and land entry figures were both for a year whereas the 3 air entries were for 6 months and I was posting what was the correct quote.

 

 I'm well aware that the embassy website often has contradictory or even inaccurate information and I've posted about it on several occasions myself and I usually check on here to clarify what I've read. 

 

That was the reason for my original post. Both the 3 entries by air and the 2 by land are perfectly reasonable on their own either as a rule or as a guide but together it's not so simple so I was just posting to see if anyone had experience as to how this was applied.

 

Even if you have a visa you can still be denied entry so it's not guaranteed regardless of whether or not you abide by what is said on an embassy website so is as well to know what others have experienced. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by kimamey

[kimamey]

21 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Direct response to OP. Fill in your entry from and tick reason for visit other/friends whatever it says, but write to visit wife next to it.. Put her address on where you are staying in Thailand. The IO does read this and many times have commented on my staying in Isaan. Many of them come from there.

If your via history is as you say I very much doubt you will have an issue. Have the wifes phone number handy on your phone if confirmation of anything is needed.

Thanks for that. At the moment I'm not sure what I'll be doing. Depending on the work situation I may not be coming back until around Christmas and I'll be able to get my normal non imm visa anyway but I was trying to plan for the situation where I need to travel to Thailand within 2 or 3 weeks which I planned to do on a visa exemption as it would be a short stay. I noticed the limits on the Thai Embassy website so I thought I'd better check.

 

I only used a visa exemption previously due to my only being in the country for a few weeks at a time. On one occasion for a funeral. The last one was to cover the 6 days I was over the limit. I wish I'd just got an extension but at the time a quick border run was the better option due to time restraints.

 

I may try the Savannakhet visa option but either way the financial situation will have to be sorted out longer term as I don't intend to do short runs from now on. I have options for that if needed but they take time.

[steve187]

can you not obtain a single entry non immigrant 'o' visa from London or a consulate in the UK, in receipt of a state pension for a 'retirement' non 'o' or a being married non 'o', london is by online appointment and fro consulates it has to be pre applied for and approved by London, i believe HCMC do a multi non 'o' married to Thai national as well as savannakhet without financials.

[kimamey]

On 9/8/2019 at 3:09 PM, steve187 said:

can you not obtain a single entry non immigrant 'o' visa from London or a consulate in the UK, in receipt of a state pension for a 'retirement' non 'o' or a being married non 'o', london is by online appointment and fro consulates it has to be pre applied for and approved by London, i believe HCMC do a multi non 'o' married to Thai national as well as savannakhet without financials.

I'm not eligible for the state pension until March and I dint think that's enough on its own anyway. My wife checked the situation at Savannakhet and it does appear that I could get a 3 month visa without financials so that's an option.  At the moment my own work situation seems as if it might be improving a bit and if that continues I probably won't return to Thailand just yet and when I do I should be in a position financially to be able to get a non imm visa based on marriage. If not then I've never been to SavannaKhet so I might get the opportunity. 

 

Thanks for all the replies.  This is where I always come to get information on visas.

[Tanoshi]

If married to a Thai your age is immaterial to obtain a Non Imm O Visa.

 

London now only offer the single entry Non O.

HCMC and Savannakhet offer the single or multiple entry Non O with no financial proof.