India loses contact with spacecraft on mission to the moon

[captpkapoor]

47 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

"Data is being analyzed," ISRO Chairman K Sivan told a room full of distraught scientists at the agency's tracking center in Bengaluru.

 

Distraught, or soon jobless scientists? 

 

   Would anybody buy an Indian car? 

You are already buying many Indian cars. Drive by Mumbai port, see the yard full of cars for export. Volkswagen, Hyundai, Suzuki, etc.

[captpkapoor]

1 hour ago, likerdup1 said:

Russia did quite a lot in the early space race but USA (with most of the credit going to a former Nazi sympathizing German Werner Van Braun) dominated space during the Apollo missions and continues to dominate. The JPL in Pasadena has had quite a number of successful Mars rover and lander spacecraft exceed mission expectations. No other country has a track record like that. What they do is EXTREMELY HARD!! USA dominates space travel hands down. Not to mention the recent Pluto fly by and Keiper belt object fly bys. The JPL scientist are space rock stars and NOBODY beats them in missions throughout the solar system. USA is the leader in space far and above any other country. Just look at this...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars

Lots of Indian scientists at NASA, buddy!

[captpkapoor]

10 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

Be afraid, very afraid. How many Indians are holding Information Technology positions throughout the world. I've been in the IT industry and they hire some very sophomoric Indians to handle sensitive positions... Most of the engineering skills of these guys amount to trial and error systems engineering.. LOL, it's really a joke. I'm not surprised that even 50 years after USA put multiple manned spacecraft on the moon India is still struggling to put a robot there. When there is a problem they all ban together to figure out some stupid excuse for their mistakes.. Not ALL of the Indians I've worked with are poor engineers but more often than not it has been the case.

Your sentence "How many Indians are holding Information Technology positions throughout the world". Well, for starters, the CEO of Google is an Indian, Sundar Pichai. The CEO of Microsoft is an Indian, Satya Nadella. 

And thousands more in top tech companies.

[Isaanbiker]

15 minutes ago, captpkapoor said:

Your sentence "How many Indians are holding Information Technology positions throughout the world". Well, for starters, the CEO of Google is an Indian, Sundar Pichai. The CEO of Microsoft is an Indian, Satya Nadella. 

And thousands more in top tech companies.

And many countries are seeking highly qualified Computer Indians who immediately receive a breathtaking salary, plus a passport from that particular country.

 

It's funny how some poorly educated people are talking about them.

 

They already had a more or less developed culture before Columbus found a country that he thought it was India. 

   

Edited September 7, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[likerdup1]

1 hour ago, captpkapoor said:

Lots of Indian scientists at NASA, buddy!

"Lots"? A small percentage is a more accurate statement. Jet Propulsion Laboratory actually has very few Indians in ratio to the number of USA and European born scientists. Hey, I'm not saying that every Indian engineer out there is bad, just that in my experience I have worked with some who are not very good and not very logical or methodical...  well trained and educated engineers should be.  What do you do for a living buddy?

[likerdup1]

45 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

And many countries are seeking highly qualified Computer Indians who immediately receive a breathtaking salary, plus a passport from that particular country.

   

Highly qualified? I remember interviewing a number of Indian guys for a systems admin position we had in our engineering department. I was a senior engineer at the time. Many of these guys claimed to be "qualified" but failed to know simple questions that any entry level engineer in the field should know. It was clear these guys had cheated on their exams for their "qualifications" One guy had the gal to try and Google the answers while we were talking to him on a phone interview!! We could hear typing as he said, hmm let me think about that, wait I know it... blah blah.

[StreetCowboy]

11 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

"Lots"? A small percentage is a more accurate statement. Jet Propulsion Laboratory actually has very few Indians in ratio to the number of USA and European born scientists. Hey, I'm not saying that every Indian engineer out there is bad, just that in my experience I have worked with some who are not very good and not very logical or methodical...  well trained and educated engineers should be.  What do you do for a living buddy?

I discovered when I was doing my PhD that juniors I was supervising from the Indian sub-continent had different skills and abilities from mine, and once we discovered that they did very well.

 

In this world, anything is possible (with a bobble of the head) but certain things, at certain times, cannot be achieved (with a bobble of the head so subtly different that you or I might note perceive the distinction).

 

If they did not do a good job, I doubt so many multi-nationals would employ them.    

[likerdup1]

2 hours ago, captpkapoor said:

 

And thousands more in top tech companies.

Just my point. Careless and poor engineering by some of the thousands of Indian engineers. You wonder why so many large companies get hacked? I was hired to put back together the entire network of a hacked companys IT infrastructure which was poorly managed by a staff made up of a number of bad Indian engineers. I met these guys and found out how inept they were. Cost the company millions upon millions of dollars to rebuild after the hack. Again, not all Indian engineers are bad, but I have met quite a few bad ones.

Edited September 7, 2019 by likerdup1

[likerdup1]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

 

 

If they did not do a good job, I doubt so many multi-nationals would employ them.    

The companies don't have a choice, there is such a demand for IT staff that many Indians with half a brain take crash courses on IT, cheat on qualification exams and get hired into jobs they really don't know how to do. 

 

Anyway, I am done with my criticism of Indian engineers. I don't mean to be prejudice but I have worked in IT for a long time with many Indians. Some are quite good but many can be sophomoric and quite inept and down right dangerous for some projects... partially because they are unskilled and try to hide it AND don't admit when they don't know something or when they are wrong. This has been my experience. For all the Indian engineers out there. Do yourself a favor, study more, be willing to say when you are wrong or don't know things and learn how to do things right.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by likerdup1

[StreetCowboy]

11 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

The companies don't have a choice, there is such a demand for IT staff that many Indians with half a brain take crash courses on IT, cheat on qualification exams and get hired into jobs they really don't know how to do. 

I'm sure we've all done the same.  I blame my employers.

 

However, my experience of good employers is that they won't take me on for a job I can't do, and they are able to figure that out.  There's not many people I've regretted offering a job to,  OK - I recall one.

 

EDIT: and his replacement, after we laid him off at the end of his probation

Edited September 7, 2019 by StreetCowboy

[bendejo]

3 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

The companies don't have a choice, there is such a demand for IT staff that many Indians with half a brain take crash courses on IT, cheat on qualification exams and get hired into jobs they really don't know how to do. 

 

Anyway, I am done with my criticism of Indian engineers. I don't mean to be prejudice but I have worked in IT for a long time with many Indians. Some are quite good but many can be sophomoric and quite inept and down right dangerous for some projects... partially because they are unskilled and try to hide it AND don't admit when they don't know something or when they are wrong. This has been my experience. For all the Indian engineers out there. Do yourself a favor, study more, be willing to say when you are wrong or don't know things and learn how to do things right.

 

 

I took engineering in a third-rate state university in the US.  The thing about the South Asian and Middle Eastern students was that for each one who studied hard and genuinely pursued good grades there were three that copied off of him.  I had the impression that the passengers were just going to school so that their parents would continue to support them.

At one point in my illustrious career I had a contract to work on a project by a Japanese company, managed by Canadians, and being carried out in the US.  The engineers were either desi (Indian/Pakistani) or Chinese, and divided into their ghetto-departments, their meetings conducted in other languages.  (Can't fault them for lacking diversity.)  One thing I noticed is that there were some new hires that would be gone within a week.  I recall one of which who, at a glance, I knew was not a nerd, more of a spoiled brat who never fretted about anything in his life but his hairdo, somewhat ostentatious -- he lasted 2 days.  I suspect that when someone started they were given a task to test their ability, to weed out the passengers mentioned above. 

 

I was living in India in the early 1980s and there was a debate in Congress at the time as to whether to initiate color television broadcasts in the country.  As one representative put it: "I'll begin to consider this after we get a clean drinking water system in my state."

 

 

[sunnyboy2018]

20 hours ago, Tug said:

Sad I was hoping they would be successful it would have been a great source of pride for all the Indian people rich and poor alike 

And distract them from the inequties of the cast system,  the appalling levels of violence against women and children.  They spend money on space research and atomic bombs but still reveive international aid. 

[sirineou]

If they had run communications through a call center in Mumbai none of this would had happen,

 

[ThaiFelix]

There is a lot of talk here about international aid as though its is an unconditional handout to those countries badly in need....it is not. 

 

"......it is wielded as a weapon to boost trade and further political aims."

"Not one of the five poorest countries is among the top 10 recipients of British aid."

 

"The countries that currently receive most British aid are primarily either significant markets, such as Nigeria,.........or of geopolitical importance, particularly for the “war on terror” – Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria."

 

"The same is true of America, too. None of the poorest countries in the world is among the top recipients of US aid. Most aid goes instead to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Afghanistan and Kenya, again for reasons of geopolitics and trade."

 

"The principal beneficiary of America’s foreign assistance programmes has always been the United States....... Close to 80% of the US Agency for International Development’s contracts and grants go directly to American firms. Aid has created new markets for American industrial exports and meant hundreds of thousands of jobs for Americans.........USAid was putting America first"

 

"A high proportion of foreign aid is in the form of loans, which cripple developing countries through the accumulation of debt. Many rich nations receive more in interest payments from recipient countries than they give in “aid”........western governments ....borrow money at low rates by setting up aid programmes lending to poor countries at much higher rates, minting money on the backs of the poor. This is not aid, it’s a scandal"

 

"as a global system, foreign aid is a fraud. It has become a means not of ameliorating inequality, but of entrenching it."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/02/as-a-system-foreign-aid-is-a-fraud-and-does-nothing-for-inequality

[Morch]

On 9/7/2019 at 8:22 AM, robblok said:

This will stimulate the economy and will help them have more money for the poor too. This is not just vanity research often helps the economy and drives it. On the long run this is a good strategy. I wish Europe would put more money into research of medicine for instance to beat pharma companies. Research is good on whatever field it may be.

 

I think there might be more direct ways of stimulating the economy and improving the lot of India's poor. That there are benefits economic and technological benefits from such programs, which down the line may effect the general populace is true - but guess what many go on about relates to priorities. It is one thing to engage in such projects when the country is on solid footing, perhaps less obvious given India's circumstances.

 

On 9/7/2019 at 8:49 AM, robblok said:

Like the UK has no poverty and still doe research or spend a lot on their military.. double standards anyone. 

 

If you wish to make such "informed" comparisons regarding relative poverty, I'd suggest a field trip to India. May change your trickle down take on things some.

 

On 9/7/2019 at 9:03 AM, simon43 said:

India has an extensive space program, which especially helps students of engineering and technology in many developing countries by launching 'Cubesats' into space for a fraction of the cost of what the US companies charge.

 

I worked as a satellite systems designer for 15 years, and am currently building a Cubesat 'for fun'.  I can get it launched on an Indian rocket for just $10,000.  Multiply that by at least 5 if I try to get it launched in Europe or the US.

 

Many other developments stem from space/satellite research.  Perhaps some people are getting 'twitchy' because engineers in these developing countries can now do what the US did, but far cheaper and with less 'red tape'.

 

With the caveat that the effort and resources related to the initial research, resulting technology and know-how were already available. India's project is still an achievement, but hard to avoid "standing on the shoulders of giants" coming to mind.

[Jiggo]

16 hours ago, captpkapoor said:

Please go to your country's foreign aid pages and enlighten us how much aid have you given to India in the recent past? 

India aids many African and poor Asian countries, and btw, just announced a $1 billion aid to Russia's far east region.

If your so interested you can go and enlighten us.....I cant be bothered. 

[captpkapoor]

FYI: Of the 38 previous attempts of 'soft landing' on the lunar surface so far, only 20 have been successful — a success rate of 53%.

[captpkapoor]

2 hours ago, Jiggo said:

If your so interested you can go and enlighten us.....I cant be bothered. 

You're the one who raised the topic, so you're the one who should be bothered.

It's impossible to "enlighten" someone who lives in a dark corner, so stay there, and keep up with your rants.

[captpkapoor]

16 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

Just my point. Careless and poor engineering by some of the thousands of Indian engineers. You wonder why so many large companies get hacked? I was hired to put back together the entire network of a hacked companys IT infrastructure which was poorly managed by a staff made up of a number of bad Indian engineers. I met these guys and found out how inept they were. Cost the company millions upon millions of dollars to rebuild after the hack. Again, not all Indian engineers are bad, but I have met quite a few bad ones.

"Again, not all Indian engineers are bad, but I have met quite a few bad ones." That sentence could apply to all nationalities, right?

[akda]

On 9/7/2019 at 11:29 PM, likerdup1 said:

Highly qualified? I remember interviewing a number of Indian guys for a systems admin position we had in our engineering department. I was a senior engineer at the time. Many of these guys claimed to be "qualified" but failed to know simple questions that any entry level engineer in the field should know. It was clear these guys had cheated on their exams for their "qualifications" One guy had the gal to try and Google the answers while we were talking to him on a phone interview!! We could hear typing as he said, hmm let me think about that, wait I know it... blah blah.

Consult a psychiatrist before your India-phobia get worse. Get well soon.