TM 30 confused

[Max69xl]

16 minutes ago, SymS said:

I went to Chiang Mai immigration to ask the other day. TM28 must be filled by people on retirement's extension of stay. Others don't need to fill that one, only do the TM30.

I have never heard that requirement before, and I've been here a while.

What has a TM28 got to do with an extension? I have my Receipt of Notification (from an earlier TM30 report) stapled inside my passport. That works at my local immigration office.

[Peter Denis]

I don't want to be disrespectful but the discussions in this thread have become so technical that they will probably make the OP's head spin.

So I will try to provide some clear and practical response on the OP's query.

1. Filing of a TM30 is not the responsibility of the foreigner, but should be done by the hotel or owner of the condo/place where the foreigner is staying.

Note: And that implies if the foreigner is the owner of the condo, he is responsible for filing his own TM30.

2. If the foreigner is owner of the condo, adhering strictly to the law and having to file a TM30 each time that he returns to his own condo from a 24 hour trip in the country, is quite a hassle (especially if you cannot file them on-line but have to use mail or visit the IO in person).

3. If the foreigner is not the owner of the condo, it's not his responsibility to file a TM30 (see 1).  HOWEVER, if the foreigner has to visit his provincial Immigration Office for a permission or extension of stay, he can be denied the permission/extension if no current TM30 with the place where he is residing, has been filed.

4. Therefore, when having to visit the provincial IO, it's in the interest of the foreigner to ensure that a TM30 has been filed with the current place where he is residing.

Note: The foreigner only needs to ensure that when he visits his provincial IO that the LAST TM30 that has been filed is current and correct.  E.g. if he stayed at 10 different places, and only 6 filed a TM30, that's not a problem as long as the last place where he resided/resides has filed a TM30.

5. If the foreigner stays at his wife's or a friends place for a short period before returning to his own condo, and if his wife/friend do not file a TM30, nobody will know.  However, if they filed a TM30, that means that address will now be in the IO database as his current place of stay.  And in that case, he needs to file a TM30 on his return home, and surely if he foresees to visit his IO shortly after. 

6. If the foreigner is owner of the condo where he lives, to avoid the hassle of having to mail all the documents or visit the IO personally to update his wherabouts, he can also file his TM30 online.  To do so he needs to register with the IO website or app, and provide the necessary information (including upload of scans of house-book and ID-card).  When the information provided is complete/correct, his application will be approved and he will receive a username:password which allows to acces the website/app and file TM30 online.

Note: Using the TM30 Excel-file to upload your data when using the website, avoids having to input all data each time you file a TM30 and you can simply update the date of arrival (takes less than a minute).

7. TM30 is indeed a confusing topic, as rules and their interpretation as well as their enforcement, vary considerably from province to province.  While some provincial offices now strictly adhere to the book, others are far more relaxed.

But the Golden Rule is > You do not need to bother about TM30 unless you need to visit your provincial office for a permission/extension of stay, and in that case make sure that the place where you reside has filed a TM30.  

[emptypockets]

7 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I don't want to be disrespectful but the discussions in this thread have become so technical that they will probably make the OP's head spin.

So I will try to provide some clear and practical response on the OP's query.

1. Filing of a TM30 is not the responsibility of the foreigner, but should be done by the hotel or owner of the condo/place where the foreigner is staying.

Note: And that implies if the foreigner is the owner of the condo, he is responsible for filing his own TM30.

2. If the foreigner is owner of the condo, adhering strictly to the law and having to file a TM30 each time that he returns to his own condo from a 24 hour trip in the country, is quite a hassle (especially if you cannot file them on-line but have to use mail or visit the IO in person).

3. If the foreigner is not the owner of the condo, it's not his responsibility to file a TM30 (see 1).  HOWEVER, if the foreigner has to visit his provincial Immigration Office for a permission or extension of stay, he can be denied the permission/extension if no current TM30 with the place where he is residing, has been filed.

4. Therefore, when having to visit the provincial IO, it's in the interest of the foreigner to ensure that a TM30 has been filed with the current place where he is residing.

Note: The foreigner only needs to ensure that when he visits his provincial IO that the LAST TM30 that has been filed is current and correct.  E.g. if he stayed at 10 different places, and only 6 filed a TM30, that's not a problem as long as the last place where he resided/resides has filed a TM30.

5. If the foreigner stays at his wife's or a friends place for a short period before returning to his own condo, and if his wife/friend do not file a TM30, nobody will know.  However, if they filed a TM30, that means that address will now be in the IO database as his current place of stay.  And in that case, he needs to file a TM30 on his return home, and surely if he foresees to visit his IO shortly after. 

6. If the foreigner is owner of the condo where he lives, to avoid the hassle of having to mail all the documents or visit the IO personally to update his wherabouts, he can also file his TM30 online.  To do so he needs to register with the IO website or app, and provide the necessary information (including upload of scans of house-book and ID-card).  When the information provided is complete/correct, his application will be approved and he will receive a username:password which allows to acces the website/app and file TM30 online.

Note: Using the TM30 Excel-file to upload your data when using the website, avoids having to input all data each time you file a TM30 and you can simply update the date of arrival (takes less than a minute).

7. TM30 is indeed a confusing topic, as rules and their interpretation as well as their enforcement, vary considerably from province to province.  While some provincial offices now strictly adhere to the book, others are far more relaxed.

But the Golden Rule is > You do not need to bother about TM30 unless you need to visit your provincial office for a permission/extension of stay, and in that case make sure that the place where you reside has filed a TM30.  

Totally agree.

The OP asked a simple question and copped a barrage of over the top non relevant information by posters all trying to out do each other in the TM30 knowledge and immigration law stakes.

If he had some confusion before he is probably completely confused now.

The simplest answer would be 'go and ask at your local office'.

 

Cue the rest of the verbose posters who will chime in that different IO's give different answers and the same IO gives a different answer on a different day. If possible do what we do in business - ask the IO for an email address and confirm to him/her via email when you get home what was actually said.

[Suradit69]

17 hours ago, fletchsmile said:

As one of the very few law-abiding citizens in Thailand

One wonders why someone who thinks he's a citizen would also think he needs to bother with a TM.30

[fletchsmile]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

The law says nothing about the manager, he's included in housemaster. And a foreigner is not required to do the TM28,when staying somewhere. If staying for example, with a gf in her condo/apartment,she is the one who has to submit the TM30,no TM28 is needed. That's a fact. 

LOL - have you even read the law on the subject = Immigration Act 1979?

 

The law does indeed say hotel manager. Read section 38

 

"House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis to stay in the Kingdom legally, must notify the local Immigration Authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign National."

 

The law also requires a TM28 if you have changed residence or temporarily staying somewhere else. Read section 37. That's a fact and requirement of the law. As mentioned so many times it may not be enforced in some places, but that doesn't mean it isn't the law LOL

 

Or are you just making up your own laws on what you've heard? LOL 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by fletchsmile

[Lacessit]

On 9/9/2019 at 2:38 PM, Jip99 said:

Yes to all of those................... depending on the requirements of your local immigration office.

 

One obvious comment.....if your wife does not report your presence, and you do not report your return, nobody will be any the wiser.

 

I doubt Kalasin Immigration will have lookouts posted around the province.

Exactly. Creating laws that cannot be enforced effectively highlights their stupidity.

[berybert]

23 hours ago, fletchsmile said:

 

 

The law also requires a TM28 if you have changed residence or temporarily staying somewhere else. Read section 37. That's a fact and requirement of the law. As mentioned so many times it may not be enforced in some places, but that doesn't mean it isn't the law LOL

 

 

 

Does this mean if you change from one hotel to another you as the guest have to fill in a TM28 ? 

Not sure anyone who has a 3 week holiday staying in 3 or 4 different hotels would have any idea they should be visiting immigration so often during their holiday.

Oh and adding LOL after every sentence as you have started doing is boring as well as silly. 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by berybert

[Delight]

On 9/9/2019 at 2:38 PM, Jip99 said:

 

 

One obvious comment.....if your wife does not report your presence, and you do not report your return, nobody will be any the wiser.

 

I doubt Kalasin Immigration will have lookouts posted around the province.

 I am for certain more confused than ever. 

I plan to use the advise submitted by Jip99.

Ignore the whole mess!

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, berybert said:

Does this mean if you change from one hotel to another you as the guest have to fill in a TM28 ? 

Not sure anyone who has a 3 week holiday staying in 3 or 4 different hotels would have any idea they should be visiting immigration so often during their holiday.

Oh and adding LOL after every sentence as you have started doing is boring as well as silly. 

 

No it does not. Likely hotels will take care of TM30 requirements and TM28 is a change of permanent residential address within the same province or another Province.

[SymS]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:13 AM, Max69xl said:

I have never heard that requirement before, and I've been here a while.

What has a TM28 got to do with an extension? I have my Receipt of Notification (from an earlier TM30 report) stapled inside my passport. That works at my local immigration office.

I've been here nine years too. I had never heard about TM 30 until I got fined for not having the document when applying for a residence certificate. Last year, I also went in a trip for 2 months in Thailand in other province, and I was told I did not need to report TM 30 when I came back home.

 

I plan (planned?) to go to Lampang for a few days later this month, so seeing the buzz on the Internet, I double-checked, and indeed I was told I needed to report when I'm back. I read about TM28 in Thaivisa, so while I was there I asked for that one too, and that's when I was told TM28 was for retirees only... It's possible to other offices don't care. Oh the joy of randomly enforced laws!

[fletchsmile]

7 hours ago, berybert said:

Does this mean if you change from one hotel to another you as the guest have to fill in a TM28 ? 

Not sure anyone who has a 3 week holiday staying in 3 or 4 different hotels would have any idea they should be visiting immigration so often during their holiday.

Oh and adding LOL after every sentence as you have started doing is boring as well as silly. 

 

According to what is written in the law, then strictly the answer would be yes LOL

 

Every hotel you stay at has been dealing with this notification for years. It's just the alien side hasn't really been enforced

 

We're going away for a week next month. When I asked at immigration they said I needed to register locally, and then again at immigration when I returned. LOL

 

In all honest I didn't ask about changing hotels. But that's the process. Every time you move around for that's a new TM30 by the person responsible at where you stay the and a new TM28 by the alien. LOL

 

Oh and sorry you have a sense of humour failure about all this. I find so much of it laughable LOL 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

I post flaming a member has been removed.

[fletchsmile]

20 hours ago, jacko45k said:

.... Likely hotels will take care of TM30 requirements and TM28 is a change of permanent residential address within the same province or another Province.

Jacko, 

 

TM28 can be used for two purposes:

 

1) Change of residence

 

2) When you are just travelling / visiting

 

These are two separate clauses in section 37 and also on the TM28 form itself it outlines uses 1 and 2 with Thai numbers, as well as a rather poor English explanation 

[mrfaroukh]

Since you and your wife own your own condo you can open an online account and register your M30 online instead of visiting the immigration office.

[Max69xl]

On 9/12/2019 at 11:38 AM, fletchsmile said:

Jacko, 

 

TM28 can be used for two purposes:

 

1) Change of residence

 

2) When you are just travelling / visiting

 

These are two separate clauses in section 37 and also on the TM28 form itself it outlines uses 1 and 2 with Thai numbers, as well as a rather poor English explanation 

The only Immigration office that talks a lot about the TM28 is Phuket,and I think it's because of the high number of tourists. The TM28 has never been enforced in most of the provinces in Thailand.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

The TM28 has never been enforced in most of the provinces in Thailand.

I mentioned TM28 to a well known Visa agent here in Jomtien and he didn't seem to know what one was.

[dallen52]

Depending upon the location..

As at today.

Jomtien immigration is NO.

I just returned from Australia and went to do it. 

Was told not required anymore. 

[scotsman]

I also went to Jomtien after returning from Scotland they did it for me but said that I did not have to do it as I am on the same visa and same house address.  

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, dallen52 said:

Depending upon the location..

As at today.

Jomtien immigration is NO.

I just returned from Australia and went to do it. 

Was told not required anymore. 

Are you talking about the TM28 or TM30? 

[dallen52]

5 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Are you talking about the TM28 or TM30? 

TM30

Report residency for alien. 

I used to go myself and do it. 

But Jomtien is saying not required now.

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

TM30

Report residency for alien. 

I used to go myself and do it. 

But Jomtien is saying not required now.

I know, that's why I asked. I did the last 2 reports myself,too. That was a while ago. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

On 9/18/2019 at 11:27 AM, Max69xl said:

The TM28 has never been enforced in most of the provinces in Thailand.

When I changed province a couple of years ago I went to Ayutthaya IO armed with a TM30 and a TM28 as I was unsure which one applied.

 The IO filed the TM30 and told me to return in 2 weeks to process the TM28 .

When I returned 2 weeks later the same IO told me “ we don’t bother with that here “ and tore it up !!

 

Go figure !!

[Max69xl]

11 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

When I changed province a couple of years ago I went to Ayutthaya IO armed with a TM30 and a TM28 as I was unsure which one applied.

 The IO filed the TM30 and told me to return in 2 weeks to process the TM28 .

When I returned 2 weeks later the same IO told me “ we don’t bother with that here “ and tore it up !!

 

Go figure !!

The TM28 was earlier used the way you just mentioned,when moving to another province, and together with the TM30. Maybe some offices still requires the TM28. Who knows? ????

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, dallen52 said:

TM30

Report residency for alien. 

I used to go myself and do it. 

But Jomtien is saying not required now.

That is good news, the noose seems to have been loosened.

Mind you, 2 month old topic.

[dallen52]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

That is good news, the noose seems to have been loosened.

Mind you, 2 month old topic.

Oddly. 

I phoned Jomtien immigration in the morning. 

The lady said that its required. 

The reason for rocking up.

Front desk said no required to do. 

If same address. 

[Dingo1170]

It is impossible to get a consensus on TM30 etc, it’s a minefield. Like everything here it’s up to the offices Interpretation and by Christ doesn’t that change around on a daily basis. It’s a ridiculous idea to start with, just get rid of it.

[Max69xl]

4 minutes ago, Dingo1170 said:

It is impossible to get a consensus on TM30 etc, it’s a minefield. Like everything here it’s up to the offices Interpretation and by Christ doesn’t that change around on a daily basis. It’s a ridiculous idea to start with, just get rid of it.

You can start by telling which immigration office you belong to.

[Dingo1170]

Really funny , yes. When the Thais can get a general consensus on anything please, please, let me know. The ineptitude between provinces never ceases to amaze this little black duck. Good luck off to report my 90days as usual, because I don’t have 1996 internet explorer it the online reporting just doesn’t work lol.