Farage says Brexit will be delayed again when PM Johnson's deal falls

[tebee]

4 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

One can't help noticing how many many allusions to the Brexit situation on this forum revolve around imaginary conversations in bars. 

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

41 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

A reminder that we would have left the EU as planned on 29th March had not Rees-Mogg, his ERG, Johnson and various other Tories put self ambition ahead of the country and stabbed May in the back for their own political ends.

 

I wonder what all those who called May's deal BRINO will say when their hero Boris presents his deal; which will be identical to May's apart from a few word changes and tweaks here and there!

 

Blind Freddy's dog? wasn't he an old Southern Blues man?

The way I see it, "Brexit In Name Only" was an essential first step.  I don't know if you've ever climbed Everest, but my understanding is that the normal way to do it is to start at the bottom and work your way up.

 

I've never heard of anyone summiting Everest on the principle of "I'm not going to sit here on my Erse, I'm going straight to the top, without all that climbing and everything"

 

I know Eff-all about anything, but what I do know that overcoming obstacles is different from overcoming hurdles.  You would think Etonians would understand that.

 

We have elected appalling politicians, our parties have elected buffoons, anbd we have voted for a ridiculous ideal based on lies and deception.  It is no-body's fault but yours and mine, and it will drive our country to ruin.  

 

On the bright side, beyond that, there may be brighter future ahead.  I wonder how the North Koreans cope?

 

 

 

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Cobblers from old.

Do you mean cobblers or cobblers?

Leavers would have you believe that people who mended shoes were the same as people who paved roads with naturally rounded stones, flattest face upwards, but they are not.

 

Do Not Believe The Lies.

 

Cobblers Does Not Mean Cobblers!

[Loiner]

Probably don’t mean the cobbles you are alluding to either. Most of those are stone setts, more often granite.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[yogi100]

The Brexiteers voted to leave for two very important reasons. And ones  that seriously affect many British working class people who are the section of the population that represent the majority of leave voters.

 

The main one was unwanted immigration and its negative effects on life in the UK for its native population such as its traditional culture, terrorism, crime, unemployment, employment conditions, housing and general overcrowding.

 

The other was the perceived EU interference in our 'sovereignty' such as what laws we choose to implement and how we choose to implement them.

 

The remainers who have more of the means, authority and clout to do so have not said how they are going to tackle these problems but just keep scaremongering and going on about 'deals' without presenting the actual nature of such deals, calling leavers racists and xenophobes which admittedly has a degree of truth to it and of course of being stupid.

 

We are now seeing how little our out of touch politicians care for our wishes, their inability and blatant reluctance to put things right and their refusal to listen to the people. The result is the country is divided and its people often bitterly so.

 

We're now in the 4th year of it and nothing has been done by those useless imbeciles we pay 80K a year to do as we instruct them. If they were employed in the public sector they'd have got their cards and severance pay offs long ago. At least Boris is one Eton toff who's trying to get things sorted out.

 

For those who live in Thailand one source has claimed that the GBP will be down to 28 baht by 2022 if things don't get sorted out ASAP. The way the it's crash dived since June 2016 that source could well be right.

 

Returning to the nightmare that the UK has become can't be a very attractive proposition for ex pats. Not just from the LOS but also everywhere else.

 

But financial conditions will mean many of them will have no choice but to have to do so. Not much fun for some old blokes who have spent years putting down roots in what they thought was going to be their final home.

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

The Brexiteers voted to leave for two very important reasons. And ones  that seriously affect many British working class people who are the section of the population that represent the majority of leave voters.

 

The main one was unwanted immigration and its negative effects on life in the UK for its native population such as its traditional culture, terrorism, crime, unemployment, employment conditions, housing and general overcrowding.

 

 

Equally though the EU has had major positive effects for  many British working class people - the working time directive, workplace protections.

 

Do they not think the most right wing conservative administration in decades will be quick to eliminate these laws  and free the British working man from the tyranny of Europe enforcing paid holidays and safe working environments on them? 

[SheungWan]

The matter is easily solved by parliament approving any deal brought back to the House by the PM.
 
Job done, referendum result respected, election manifestos honored.
 
Democracy restored.

Good luck with that.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[SheungWan]

Brexiteers aren't the Tory party. Sunderland, and many Labour-voting working-class parts of the country voted Leave in droves. Remain seems very much a preserve of the middle-classes and Celtic nations, all of whom could be said to be somewhat more financially dependent on the EU than the many Labour-voting working-class parts of the country that have had employment opportunities and cost-of-living eroded by an unprecedent influx of working-class labour from less affluent EU nations.
 
Many working class people vote for parties like the Brexit Party, UKIP, and yes, to get paid attention to by the effete London-centric middle-class establishment, even the British Naughty Party. Lesson learned...?

Some people aways looking to sanitize flirting with the nasties.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[yogi100]

19 minutes ago, tebee said:

Equally though the EU has had major positive effects for  many British working class people - the working time directive, workplace protections.

 

Do they not think the most right wing conservative administration in decades will be quick to eliminate these laws  and free the British working man from the tyranny of Europe enforcing paid holidays and safe working environments on them? 

Those positive effects have not gone unnoticed. For those on zero hours contracts and low incomes there are now 2,000 food banks throughout the UK.

 

The amount of free food they dole out has increased by 73% in the last 5 years so things are nowhere near as bad as some folk make them out to be.

 

How delighted and grateful we should be that we can now get free food if we need it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by yogi100

[BobBKK]

13 hours ago, billd766 said:

Of course nobody voted for this chaos.

 

Why not look at how we got here in the first place, why the chaos has broken out, what and who caused it.

 

What we Leavers voted for was to leave the EU rather than remain.

 

We left that in the hands of the politicians under Mrs May and trusted them as they promised us that the UK would leave the EU on 29th March 2019 and that a no deal was better than a bad deal.

 

Quite simply, they lied from day one which after more than 3 years or farking about led to Mrs May being booted out and after a few more weeks led to Boris being PM. That is where the real problems started with parliament being prorogued, everybody and their dog being stabbed in the back, Boris being sent to negotiate with his hands tied behind his back, everybody screaming blue murder.

 

Blind Freddy's dog could do a better job. 

Right but things change. Just voting 'leave' what does it mean?  Cameron caused this mess. Give people the chance to vote for leave no deal, leave with deal or remain. 3 years is enough.

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

Cobblers from old.

I find it difficult to counter your well constructed and reasoned argument which refutes my post and dissects it with clinical precision.  

[Blue Muton]

3 hours ago, yogi100 said:

The Brexiteers voted to leave for two very important reasons. And ones  that seriously affect many British working class people who are the section of the population that represent the majority of leave voters.

 

The main one was unwanted immigration and its negative effects on life in the UK for its native population such as its traditional culture, terrorism, crime, unemployment, employment conditions, housing and general overcrowding.

 

The other was the perceived EU interference in our 'sovereignty' such as what laws we choose to implement and how we choose to implement them.

 

The remainers who have more of the means, authority and clout to do so have not said how they are going to tackle these problems but just keep scaremongering and going on about 'deals' without presenting the actual nature of such deals, calling leavers racists and xenophobes which admittedly has a degree of truth to it and of course of being stupid.

 

We are now seeing how little our out of touch politicians care for our wishes, their inability and blatant reluctance to put things right and their refusal to listen to the people. The result is the country is divided and its people often bitterly so.

 

We're now in the 4th year of it and nothing has been done by those useless imbeciles we pay 80K a year to do as we instruct them. If they were employed in the public sector they'd have got their cards and severance pay offs long ago. At least Boris is one Eton toff who's trying to get things sorted out.

 

For those who live in Thailand one source has claimed that the GBP will be down to 28 baht by 2022 if things don't get sorted out ASAP. The way the it's crash dived since June 2016 that source could well be right.

 

Returning to the nightmare that the UK has become can't be a very attractive proposition for ex pats. Not just from the LOS but also everywhere else.

 

But financial conditions will mean many of them will have no choice but to have to do so. Not much fun for some old blokes who have spent years putting down roots in what they thought was going to be their final home.

You missed the main reason many people voted Leave, that foreign and foreign based billionaire owners of The Mail, The Express, The Sun and The Telegraph spent a fortune over decades on the real "Project Fear" convincing them that the EU was a bad thing run by "dictators" and blinding those same people to all the benefits that the EU has brought to the citizens of Europe, including those of the UK.

 

Why would they do that? Because the EU has demonstrated that it will not be cowed by such people and have shown time and again that they are both willing and able to stand up for citizens' rights over major multinational corporations, against whom the UK government has neither the will nor the capacity to act.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

I find it difficult to counter your well constructed and reasoned argument which refutes my post and dissects it with clinical precision.  

There's no point in countering nonsense with a well constructed and reasoned argument.

 

Here ya go:

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-load-of-cobblers.html

[Nigel Garvie]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

I find it difficult to counter your well constructed and reasoned argument which refutes my post and dissects it with clinical precision.  

I must say a well constructed sentence indeed: I like the bit about  dissecting it with clinical precision, were/are you a surgeon?
Thanks, I enjoyed it!

[yogi100]

4 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

You missed the main reason many people voted Leave, that foreign and foreign based billionaire owners of The Mail, The Express, The Sun and The Telegraph spent a fortune over decades on the real "Project Fear" convincing them that the EU was a bad thing run by "dictators" and blinding those same people to all the benefits that the EU has brought to the citizens of Europe, including those of the UK.

 

Why would they do that? Because the EU has demonstrated that it will not be cowed by such people and have shown time and again that they are both willing and able to stand up for citizens' rights over major multinational corporations, against whom the UK government has neither the will nor the capacity to act.

How do billionaires influence how an Englishman will vote who may soon face losing his job to an Eastern European.

 

Whatever way you want to look at it the EU are champions of immigration and the UK is one of the immigrants' favourite destinations. Anyone with an EU passport can access UK services.

 

The UK is overcrowded and homelessness is at an all time high. Homelessness among the over 60s has increased by 39% in the last 5 years. 

 

The over 60s used to be considered vulnerable and accordingly received housing priority. Those days are gone.

 

So if it goes breasts up in the LOS many elderly Brits have little to look forward if they come back to England. Even the local councils are cutting back on park benches because of the cuts.

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

You missed the main reason many people voted Leave, that foreign and foreign based billionaire owners of The Mail, The Express, The Sun and The Telegraph spent a fortune over decades on the real "Project Fear" convincing them that the EU was a bad thing run by "dictators" and blinding those same people to all the benefits that the EU has brought to the citizens of Europe, including those of the UK.

 

Why would they do that? Because the EU has demonstrated that it will not be cowed by such people and have shown time and again that they are both willing and able to stand up for citizens' rights over major multinational corporations, against whom the UK government has neither the will nor the capacity to act.

Absolutely spot on. Rupert Murdoch was one of the first to appreciate that for the mega rich to succeed in controlling the UK then they had to break the bonds of working class loyalty to the Labour Party. This was achieved by the gutter press you mention, offering a diet of tits, footy, scandal, coupled with servile worship of the royal family, the rich and famous. The poor, the Immigrants, the disabled, the imaginary liberal elite, were all scapegoated. There is nothing that wrong with our education system, but this diet turned millions of decent people  (However actually intelligent they remained) into subservient  guzzlers at the trough of Tabloid misinformation. By the time it came to Brexit, the nation's critical facility had been blunted. Victory for Rupert Murdoch, the antichrist, and his fellow travelers. He once said that number 10 took his views seriously, whereas the EU had the effrontery to ignore him. They can see scum coming, here we just lick his boots, with the noble exception of Liverpool.

 

Of course the Labour Party did their best to help by choosing far left ideologues like Foot to lead them in the 80s, and recovering from the malignant idiocy virus (Militant tendency). 

[Blue Muton]

2 hours ago, yogi100 said:

How do billionaires influence how an Englishman will vote who may soon face losing his job to an Eastern European.

 

Whatever way you want to look at it the EU are champions of immigration and the UK is one of the immigrants' favourite destinations. Anyone with an EU passport can access UK services.

 

The UK is overcrowded and homelessness is at an all time high. Homelessness among the over 60s has increased by 39% in the last 5 years. 

 

The over 60s used to be considered vulnerable and accordingly received housing priority. Those days are gone.

 

So if it goes breasts up in the LOS many elderly Brits have little to look forward if they come back to England. Even the local councils are cutting back on park benches because of the cuts.

And now we have absolute classic Brexiteer hogwash, blaming the EU for UK government policies. 

 

Or perhaps not. Perhaps you can point us to the EU laws that have demanded that the UK government neglects social housing. Conservative policy and EU legislation are not the same thing.

[7by7]

I've not quoted all of the posts as much is merely padding, so I've just quoted the points to which I am responding.

 

10 hours ago, yogi100 said:

The Brexiteers voted to leave for two very important reasons. And ones  that seriously affect many British working class people who are the section of the population that represent the majority of leave voters.

 

The main one was unwanted immigration and its negative effects on life in the UK for its native population such as its traditional culture, terrorism, crime, unemployment, employment conditions, housing and general overcrowding.

 

You have repeatedly been shown that, apart from a blip in 2008 due to the worldwide financial crisis, UK unemployment has been steadily falling since the 1990s. But you ignore that fact as it destroys your argument.

 

You have repeatedly been shown that wages in your chosen sector, construction, have not been depressed by EU workers. But you ignore that fact as it destroys your argument.

 

How many EU migrants have been suspected of, let alone convicted of terrorism? Unless you count Irish PIRA and other organisations members, none that I am aware of.

 

Do you have the figures to back up your claim that EU migration is responsible for increased crime?

 

How about figures to show that EU migrants are depriving British citizens of social housing?

 

You have repeatedly been shown that EU migrants contribute far more in taxes than they receive in benefits. But you ignore that fact as it destroys your argument.

 

Working conditions I'll come to shortly.

 

10 hours ago, yogi100 said:

The other was the perceived EU interference in our 'sovereignty' such as what laws we choose to implement and how we choose to implement them.

'Perceived' being the important word. The EU does make laws and members have to abide by them.

 

Rules which have benefited people in the UK, such as the working time directive, various health and safety regulations, food standards etc. Of course, like all member states, the UK had input into those regulations.

 

But in the vast majority of areas, foreign policy, law and order, health, education, defense, budget etc., the UK, like all other members, setb our own laws.

 

10 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Those positive effects have not gone unnoticed. For those on zero hours contracts and low incomes there are now 2,000 food banks throughout the UK.

 

Not due to the EU; the issue of zero hours contracts used to be a matter for individual members Zero hours contracts: is the UK "the odd one out"?

Quote

Conclusion

Not all have an explicit ban, but it’s correct that most EU countries outlaw these contracts, heavily restrict them, or don’t see them widely used. The UK is one of around half a dozen European countries where zero hours contracts are both legal and fairly common

 

That was in 2016; it changed in April 2019: EU law fixes minimum rights for 'gig economy' workers

Quote

The European Parliament says the new legislation will apply to "the most vulnerable employees on atypical contracts and in non-standard jobs" - including those on zero-hour contracts.

Employees in EU member states already enjoy a wide range of protections to working hours, minimum breaks and holiday entitlement

 

Of course, Brexit means that we won't be covered by this; is that what you mean by Brexit protecting UK workers? 

 

10 hours ago, yogi100 said:

The amount of free food they dole out has increased by 73% in the last 5 years so things are nowhere near as bad as some folk make them out to be.

 

How delighted and grateful we should be that we can now get free food if we need it.

 

Poverty is, of course, a major problem, which needs solving. According to the Child Poverty Action Group, there are three main causes:

1. Low pay,
2. Worklessnes,
3. High costs and inadequate benefits.

You can read the information via the link for details of these.

 

But can you explain how it is due to our EU membership? Facts, this time, not opinions which have repeatedly been proven false already.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

And now we have absolute classic Brexiteer hogwash, blaming the EU for UK government policies. 

 

Or perhaps not. Perhaps you can point us to the EU laws that have demanded that the UK government neglects social housing. Conservative policy and EU legislation are not the same thing.

 Indeed.

 

The biggest case of the lack of social housing was Thatcher's right to buy policy.

 

In itself, not a bad scheme, if the money raised had been invested in building more social housing. But it wasn't, because the law specifically said it couldn't be.

 

So the social housing stock was severely reduced, whilst demand for social housing was rising.

 

It's only in the last 20 years or so that this was rectified; but the demand is still outstripping supply; hence the scandal of families being housed in shipping containers!

[tebee]

10 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Those positive effects have not gone unnoticed. For those on zero hours contracts and low incomes there are now 2,000 food banks throughout the UK.

 

The amount of free food they dole out has increased by 73% in the last 5 years so things are nowhere near as bad as some folk make them out to be.

 

How delighted and grateful we should be that we can now get free food if we need it.

 

 

 

 

 

Zero hours contracts are illegal in most other european countries, it's one of those areas were the EU has held back from making illegal everywhere because of British sensibilities and left the UK to make it's own decisions on.

Yet Brexiters complain we have no sovereignty - but this is what we do when we do get our own sovereignty, maybe we really need less of it not more. Equally maybe this is an example of what a right wing tory government will do when unfettered EU restrictions.

[Slip]

Gentlemen, whilst everything you have said in the above 2 posts is entirely correct, I fear you are completely wasting your time.

[johnnybangkok]

11 minutes ago, Slip said:

Gentlemen, whilst everything you have said in the above 2 posts is entirely correct, I fear you are completely wasting your time.

I agree.

It's not the first time these points have been raised especially to the likes of Yogi100 but here he is again, spouting the same anecdotal nonsense when time and time again he has been proven incorrect in his assumptions and completely wrong with his facts. 

There's banging your head against a brick wall and there's doing facts with a Brexit fan. Both are bound to give you a headache.  

[billd766]

10 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Right but things change. Just voting 'leave' what does it mean?  Cameron caused this mess. Give people the chance to vote for leave no deal, leave with deal or remain. 3 years is enough.

I agree with you but the 3 years delay was caused by Cameron's successor Mrs May.

 

Good luck on getting a vote to leave no deal, leave with deal or remain.

 

Nobody in the HoC is listening to the people of the UK, they are to busy tying Boris up in knots, jumping parties but NOT having a bye election and stabbing each other in the back.

 

You even have the Lib/Dems saying that if the vote is to leave then they will ignore the result. What price Lib/Dem Democracy?

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

There's no point in countering nonsense with a well constructed and reasoned argument.

 

Here ya go:

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-load-of-cobblers.html

More like you cant.

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

And now we have absolute classic Brexiteer hogwash, blaming the EU for UK government policies. 

 

Or perhaps not. Perhaps you can point us to the EU laws that have demanded that the UK government neglects social housing. Conservative policy and EU legislation are not the same thing.

And perhaps you can point us as to why EU passport holders should have free movement and can come and settle in the UK putting an unnecessary strain on housing, employment and other essential services.

[yogi100]

11 hours ago, tebee said:

Equally though the EU has had major positive effects for  many British working class people - the working time directive, workplace protections.

 

Do they not think the most right wing conservative administration in decades will be quick to eliminate these laws  and free the British working man from the tyranny of Europe enforcing paid holidays and safe working environments on them? 

What right wing conservative administration? They've let more immigrants in than tony blair did!

[johnnybangkok]

19 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

And perhaps you can point us as to why EU passport holders should have free movement and can come and settle in the UK putting an unnecessary strain on housing, employment and other essential services.

They can’t. The EU was going to allow the UK to not grant social services to unemployed EU citizens. The UK was looking for 4 years which was upheld by the EU courts. Obviously this would have happened IF the UK was still part of the EU. It’s a moot point now. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/14/uk-can-refuse-benefits-to-unemployed-eu-migrants-judges-rule

This has been pointed out to you before so please stop bringing up an easily refutable point. 

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

You missed the main reason many people voted Leave, that foreign and foreign based billionaire owners of The Mail, The Express, The Sun and The Telegraph spent a fortune over decades on the real "Project Fear" convincing them that the EU was a bad thing run by "dictators" and blinding those same people to all the benefits that the EU has brought to the citizens of Europe, including those of the UK.

 

Why would they do that? Because the EU has demonstrated that it will not be cowed by such people and have shown time and again that they are both willing and able to stand up for citizens' rights over major multinational corporations, against whom the UK government has neither the will nor the capacity to act.

The EU is heavily lobbied and influenced by major multinational corporations. Looks like you missed this plus all the main reasons the majority really voted Leave.

[tebee]

38 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

What right wing conservative administration? They've let more immigrants in than tony blair did!

Exactly - why do you confuse right wing with anti-immigration. They will use immigration to whip up frenzy in the masses, but at the same time look for a good supply of cheap labour for their companies.     

[nauseus]

47 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

More like you cant.

Your post was loaded with broad claims that were not specific and largely false. Claims were made by a lot of people on both sides. Without specifics, you are right, I can't argue anything in particular. But the overall result of all these different promises was to effectively to cancel each other out.