U.S. House to launch Trump impeachment inquiry over Ukraine controversy

[DoctorG]

51 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

What are you on about? Editorials are opinion pieces.

"a newspaper article written by or on behalf of an editor that gives an opinion on a topical issue."

This one comes from the Editorial Board of the NY Times. Ya can't get much more editorial than that.

And I really can't believe that there are posters who actually liked your post. Probably a Pavlovian response.

OK, I admit that I did not see the header as I was trying to work out how to read it without signing up. Still an opinion but yes, it carries more weight than their ordinary opinion pieces.

[Laza 45]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Exactly!  Kill two birds with one stone.

 

..It would be nice to see Pence go as well...

[Farangwithaplan]

40 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I have mixed feelings about this. It will never pass the senate, so it is really just a ceremonial proceeding. However, this is something he has earned and with his continued disregard for the law, he deserves this kind of disrespect. I think it will hurt him. I think he is going to lose the election hugely. The American people are just tired of his games, his extreme lack of talent, his complete inability to negotiate anything, his arrogance, hubris, and combative style. And the world feels this way even more so. His approval rating in the US is down to 39%. I would imagine worldwide it has to be less than 10%. The planet will celebrate when he is ousted, and hopefully the SDNY will pursue him, and make sure he gets locked up. He has worked his whole life for that fate. After swindling thousands of people out of billions of dollars, prison is where he belongs. 

What you have written really resonates. I agree with most of it. What I'm not sure about is whether the planet will celebrate. There are a whole lot of grass roots politicians starting to use Trumps style, demeanor and catchphrases to tap into the disaffected constituents they wish to be voted in by. Trump's style of speculating that something might be true, then later referring to it as fact and then reaffirming the speculation as fact has become mainstream by people in the street. And that is worrying.

 

It was interesting to hear why Pelosi decide to proceed with this. She replied in words to effect that this indiscretion is one that mainstream public will actually see the issues with. Catch phrases and deflection will not help Trump and his bus loads of lawyers when 'joe and jane average' can understand the underhandedness so clearly.

 

Even from some posts on here I can see that maybe Pelosi is giving to much credit to 'Joe and Jane Average'. Democrats will need to really spell this issue out. I would recommend in cartoon form and make it no more than 2 minutes long.

 

Dems will also be able to start pressuring Reps about this because because no person who understands the gravity of this act can have honestly stand up for the president and his inner sanctum. Some will still stand up for him but they will be seen in the hard light of day in a light that will bring about their own political downfall at later stages. But as you say, whether the Dems get the numbers - and 75% or 2/3 majority (can't remember which right now) is a lot - this will be the beginning of the end. Unless of course Trump attempts to defy the vote and stay in power under a national emergency.  That is something he has openly said he would consider.

 

Then that is a whole other story.

[Thaidream]

3 hours ago, pegman said:

nother shoe drops. I've always thought Trump had few real admirers within the Republican congressional caucus. They fear him rather than like him. This should be an interesting next few months.

 

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/senate-demands-trump-stop-blocking-whistleblower-complaint.html

Impeachment is a political process- not a criminal one.  There have only been 2 Presidents impeached but none convicted.   There is certainly enough to impeach  him and actually convict him but a conviction takes 67 votes from the Senate which means many Republican votes are need for that threshold.

 

IMO-  Trump does not care if he is impeached and he is certain there will be a favorable vote in the Senate.  He will use the favorable vote to say- see- I was acquitted- I told you all it was a witchhunt and he may just win in 2020  using  the acquittal as a basis to pull enough of the Dems over- especially if Biden is th00e Candidate.

 

What did Nixon in was that not only was he corrupt but there were enough Repubs who faced with the evidence of that corruption would have voted for conviction and the American people were for a conviction.

 

The issue now is that there are enough Americans who  will support him simply for their pocketbooks. His approval rating is 38%- and if the economy is good- people will hold their nose and vote along the lines of 2016-especially if he is acquitted on an impeachment vote. He will lose the popular vote again- but he could win the electoral votes he needs.

 

There is no doubt Trump has violated several areas of the constitution- to include the emouluments section (enriching oneself while President);  asking a foreign power to assist in his election and re-elction (Ukraine and Russia);  refusal to provide requested documents for overesignt to the US Congress and probably more. His actions are to level of high crimes and misdeamenours .  However, most of the general public do not understand completely what he is doing and enough of them believe the lies of Trump and his minions.  He is following completely the methodology adopted by the Third Reich- if you lie enough, over and over, the people will rvrntually believe the lie.

 

Trump is not only dangerous to America but to the World.  His narcicissim blinds him to the truth and the realities of decision making.  However, he is clever and manipulative.

 

IMO- the Democrats should not formally impeach him unless they can make sure there are enough votes to convict.  However, an investigation of impeachment will still allow more evicence to come forward as related to using the Presidency for self interests; obstruction of justice and collusion. There may be a 'smoking gun' that is found that even Trump cannot lie about or get his minions to lie for him and  push him to resign.

 

Trump will not go quietly into the night- To get this man- you have to have irrefutable evidence- in the form of witnesses; emails; and tape of him talking. It has to be so tight-that he cannot lie his way out.  And just like Nixon- Trump will need to be visited by Mitch McConnell and the Republican leadership and told face to face-  resign or we will convict you.

 

In the meantime, while all this is going one- as pressure builds- he has the authority to manipulate the US budget;  start a war; and use the Presidency to continue to enrich himself.  God help us all!!

[Jingthing]

I think this was a now or never moment to cross the rubicon or not. 

 

"trump" and his sleazebag "personal lawyer" 911 Rudy had already begun to aggressively redirect the narrative to be about Biden instead of the current occupant of the white house.

 

The 2020 election approaches so can't wait much longer.

 

A solid majority of democrats had favored beginning an impeachment inquiry and the Ukraine thing put that over the line.

 

Pelosi before had pledged she would only favor impeachment if she had a majority of democratic party members and a majority public support.

 

She didn't get that. The majority of public support is not there yet and may never be there, but maybe it will later.

 

People will be debating why she did this BEFORE getting the phone call transcript and whistleblower testimony probably forever.

 

I don't fully know the answer to that yet. Maybe the democrats already know more than they're saying. But my initial theory is that if this was ever going to triggered, it had to be done NOW as the "trump" Fox team had already begun to change the media narrative.

 

I can't predict how this is going to play out in the long run and neither can anyone else, but I did correctly predict the impeachment would begin a few days ago because "trump" was basically leaving them no choice. 

[chokrai]

https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/5-4-18 Menendez joint letter to General Prosecutor of Ukraine on Mueller investigation.pdf

[pedro01]

Does anyone know if the whistleblower heard the calls?

 

I've not seen any source to say they did and I've seen a few sources that their knowledge of the calls was not "first-hand".

 

Anyone seen a definitive answer on that?

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/19/politics/intel-inspector-general-not-sharing-details/index.html

 

"he alleged whistleblower didn't have direct knowledge of the communications that partly prompted the complaint to the inspector general, an official briefed on the matter told CNN on Thursday. Instead, the whistleblower's concerns came in part from learning information that was not obtained during the course of their work"

 

Seems quite odd that...

Edited September 25, 2019 by pedro01

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Does anyone know if the whistleblower heard the calls?

 

I've not seen any source to say they did and I've seen a few sources that their knowledge of the calls was not "first-hand".

 

Anyone seen a definitive answer on that?

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/19/politics/intel-inspector-general-not-sharing-details/index.html

 

"he alleged whistleblower didn't have direct knowledge of the communications that partly prompted the complaint to the inspector general, an official briefed on the matter told CNN on Thursday. Instead, the whistleblower's concerns came in part from learning information that was not obtained during the course of their work"

 

Seems quite odd that...

It might seem odd but the fact is that the Inspector General has seen whatever evidence there is and judged the matter to be urgent.

[BobBKK]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think this was a now or never moment to cross the rubicon or not. 

 

"trump" and his sleazebag "personal lawyer" 911 Rudy had already begun to aggressively redirect the narrative to be about Biden instead of the current occupant of the white house.

 

The 2020 election approaches so can't wait much longer.

 

A solid majority of democrats had favored beginning an impeachment inquiry and the Ukraine thing put that over the line.

 

Pelosi before had pledged she would only favor impeachment if she had a majority of democratic party members and a majority public support.

 

She didn't get that. The majority of public support is not there yet and may never be there, but maybe it will later.

 

People will be debating why she did this BEFORE getting the phone call transcript and whistleblower testimony probably forever.

 

I don't fully know the answer to that yet. Maybe the democrats already know more than they're saying. But my initial theory is that if this was ever going to triggered, it had to be done NOW as the "trump" Fox team had already begun to change the media narrative.

 

I can't predict how this is going to play out in the long run and neither can anyone else, but I did correctly predict the impeachment would begin a few days ago because "trump" was basically leaving them no choice. 

You think Biden's son was paid millions for his 'expertise' right?  lol

[roobaa01]

since the dem ship of fools sailed by accident into congress power, they have been trying impeachment in vain 1. cohen and dean testimony bust 2. mueller report and testimony bust.

3. russian collusion delusion hoax but 4. racsim hoax bust 5. recession hoax bust.

 

now impeachment procedures based on a substantiated whistleblower hearsay report that will backfire, or wasn't the whistleblower politically biased ??? anyway damage to the dems is as usual self-inflicted thks also the dems duo stan laurel schiff and oliver hardy nadler. soon the released phone trancript trump and zelansky will expose once again dems trums derangement syndrom. thereto lots of biden ukrain dirt will come up.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

You think Biden's son was paid millions for his 'expertise' right?  lol

The question isn't whether Hunter Biden was paid for being the son of Joseph Biden. The question is whether Biden used his influence to get his son the job or to apply pressure to the prosecutor to get him to back off the case. For the former no one has produced any evidence and for the latter there is strong evidence that it's not the case.

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

since the dem ship of fools sailed by accident into congress power, they have been trying impeachment in vain 1. cohen and dean testimony bust 2. mueller report and testimony bust.

3. russian collusion delusion hoax but 4. racsim hoax bust 5. recession hoax bust.

 

now impeachment procedures based on a substantiated whistleblower hearsay report that will backfire, or wasn't the whistleblower politically biased ??? anyway damage to the dems is as usual self-inflicted thks also the dems duo stan laurel schiff and oliver hardy nadler. soon the released phone trancript trump and zelansky will expose once again dems trums derangement syndrom. thereto lots of biden ukrain dirt will come up.

 

wbr

roobaa01

I guess it's useless to point out to you that the Inspector General judged the allegations to be an urgent matter. Are you contending he didn't look at the evidence?

[Thaidream]

15 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

oes anyone know if the whistleblower heard the calls?

 

I've not seen any source to say they did and I've seen a few sources that their knowledge of the calls was not "first-hand".

 

Anyone seen a definitive answer on that?

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/19/politics/intel-inspector-general-not-sharing-details/index.html

 

"he alleged whistleblower didn't have direct knowledge of the communications that partly prompted the complaint to the inspector general, an official briefed on the matter told CNN on Thursday. Instead, the whistleblower's concerns came in part from learning information that was not obtained during the course of their work"

 

Seems quite odd that...

That would most likely mean that the 'tip' came from someone inside the White House at the highest level ala 'Deep Throat' during the Nixon impeachment investigation.  Deep Throat had access to certain information and fed it to the media.  In this case- the only people who could know what the President said would be someone who read the transcripts of the conversation or was in the room when the call was made.

[Jingthing]

Well the live audience at Colbert certainly loves this news!

 

 

Keep in mind, folks, while nobody knows how all of this is going to turn out, there still may be value (and political benefit) for the democrats to impeach without senate conviction (which nobody expects ever). 

 

This is the beginning of what may be a very long and thorough process where information is going to come out that the public has never heard about before. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Jingthing

[chokrai]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well the live audience at Colbert certainly loves this news!

 

 

Keep in mind, folks, while nobody knows how all of this is going to turn out, there still may be value (and political benefit) for the democrats to impeach without senate conviction (which nobody expects ever). 

 

This is the beginning of what may be a very long and thorough process where information is going to come out that the public has never heard about before. 

That is because they are all a bunch of bleating moronic sheep.

[roobaa01]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I guess it's useless to point out to you that the Inspector General judged the allegations to be an urgent matter. Are you contending he didn't look at the evidence?

the phone transcripts will be released today and with it the dems impeachment procedures go bust.

 

yes bidens strong evidence as he lied on saturday to reporter peter d. that he never talked to hunter about his ukraine business whereas hunter confirmed to the newyorker the opposite. wasn't it the case that hunter was paid usd 50.000 monthly by the ukraine energy company despite having no experience in that field ??? and wasn't it that hunter was lifted to the board job by a russian leaning ukrainian oligarch ???? was it the case that another democrat was sitting also with hunter on the same ukrain company board ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Jingthing]

Just now, chokrai said:

That is because they are all a bunch of bleating moronic sheep.

Sounds like you're confused. I wasn't talking about the crowds at a "trump" rally. 

[Farangwithaplan]

30 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

You think Biden's son was paid millions for his 'expertise' right?  lol

Biden and his son and what may or may not have transpired is a completely separate issue to what is being discussed in this thread. Are you aware of that?

 

Are you deliberately trying to deflect from the issues at hand or do you not realise they are totally separate subjects? It can only be one or the other.

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Farangwithaplan

[Farangwithaplan]

31 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

since the dem ship of fools sailed

 

31 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

thks also the dems duo stan laurel schiff and oliver hardy nadler.

Thank you for some examples of Trumpeque catchphrases.

 

I would like to see data or a study on any correlation between intelligence and the use of catchphrases as a tool by people in discussion or debate.

[Jingthing]

Some background on the rationale of the triggering the impeachment investigation BEFORE seeing the phone call transcript and whistle blower testimony. 

 

 

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, Laza 45 said:

..It would be nice to see Pence go as well...

This would be the ultimate two fur! impeach them both and Pelosi become s President.. 

[bristolboy]

Just now, Jingthing said:

A question I have is if the impeachment powers are FINALLY going to be enough for congress to get a hold of the current occupant of the white house's TAX RETURNS. Does anyone know? 

They almost certainly should be. While sometimes the Supreme court backs the executive branch in confrontations with Congress, they've always deferred to Congress when it comes to impeachment. Congress alone gets to decide what's impeachable and what evidence they are allowed to demand.

Actually, on my wish list is the last minute cancellation of the FBI HQ move to Virginia. The lot they currently occupy in DC is right next to Trump's hotel and an ideal spot for any competitor.

[FritsSikkink]

7 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

This will hurt Biden and help Trump. Funny, it was only a few months ago that he was about to be impeached for colluding with Russia to game an election. It looks like they are desperate to impeach Trump seeing as he will thrash any Dem candidate, yet don't have a reason to do it. Not good optics for them heading into 2020.

You must live in Trump heaven somewhere. Trump lost the house already, he committed to a crime. He will trash nobody, He will spend time in jail for treason amongst other things.

[roobaa01]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some background on the rationale of the triggering the impeachment investigation BEFORE seeing the phone call transcript and whistle blower testimony. 

 

 

the conspiracy and fake news channel i.example russian trump campaign collusion hoax delusion for 2.5 yrs.

 

has dem stan laurel schiff gained again hard facts like during the russian collusion hoax so many times.

wbr

roobaa01

 

wbr

roobaa01

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Farangwithaplan said:

What you have written really resonates. I agree with most of it. What I'm not sure about is whether the planet will celebrate. There are a whole lot of grass roots politicians starting to use Trumps style, demeanor and catchphrases to tap into the disaffected constituents they wish to be voted in by. Trump's style of speculating that something might be true, then later referring to it as fact and then reaffirming the speculation as fact has become mainstream by people in the street. And that is worrying.

 

It was interesting to hear why Pelosi decide to proceed with this. She replied in words to effect that this indiscretion is one that mainstream public will actually see the issues with. Catch phrases and deflection will not help Trump and his bus loads of lawyers when 'joe and jane average' can understand the underhandedness so clearly.

 

Even from some posts on here I can see that maybe Pelosi is giving to much credit to 'Joe and Jane Average'. Democrats will need to really spell this issue out. I would recommend in cartoon form and make it no more than 2 minutes long.

 

Dems will also be able to start pressuring Reps about this because because no person who understands the gravity of this act can have honestly stand up for the president and his inner sanctum. Some will still stand up for him but they will be seen in the hard light of day in a light that will bring about their own political downfall at later stages. But as you say, whether the Dems get the numbers - and 75% or 2/3 majority (can't remember which right now) is a lot - this will be the beginning of the end. Unless of course Trump attempts to defy the vote and stay in power under a national emergency.  That is something he has openly said he would consider.

 

Then that is a whole other story.

Interesting observations. I agree that alot of conservative politicians, and those with militant, of fascist leaning agendas, are co-oping his style. But as is the case with Trump, more than likely it is the minority of the population that goes along with it.

 

I love what you said about keeping the message in cartoon form, and under two minutes. I might amend that to under 40 seconds. The concentration of the average Joe and Jane is fairly minimal these days. 

 

I believe the so called "deep state" is what helped to get Trump elected, and I also assume that same "deep state" is getting rather tired of his nonsense. I also think the average American is getting tired of him, and there is a "fatigue factor" setting in. The daily routine is getting very old. The inability of this juvenile to let anything go. The extremely thin skin, and pathological nature of the man is wearing alot of people out. I do not see him getting re-elected, and if he chooses to resist the results of the election, I believe he will be taken out one way or another. 

[roobaa01]

20 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

They almost certainly should be. While sometimes the Supreme court backs the executive branch in confrontations with Congress, they've always deferred to Congress when it comes to impeachment. Congress alone gets to decide what's impeachable and what evidence they are allowed to demand.

Actually, on my wish list is the last minute cancellation of the FBI HQ move to Virginia. The lot they currently occupy in DC is right next to Trump's hotel and an ideal spot for any competitor.

as we know the inspector general looked already into the evidence etc and somehow found that the whistleblower was "politically biased" acc. to foxnews today. thus given with the transcript release dems impeachment moves go bust .

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Laza 45]

38 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

This would be the ultimate two fur! impeach them both and Pelosi become s President.. 

...just what I was thinking! After Mad King Trump... Good Queen Nancy!! 

[Tippaporn]

 

This is nothing more than another soon-to-be-failed Dem tactic.  Impeachment attempts will fail, too.  How many nothing-burgers do people need to eat before they finally realize they're being played and have been played from the get-go?  LOL

Edited September 25, 2019 by Tippaporn

[chokrai]

Trump has just Rope a Doped the Dems again. Biden is toast, Warren is next.

[candide]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

You think Biden's son was paid millions for his 'expertise' right?  lol

Fake news again! ????

He was paid as much as $50,000 per month.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/24/763502822/what-were-the-bidens-doing-in-ukraine-5-questions-answered?t=1569393084922