What visas are left for those under 50?

[Hal65]

All the Thai embassies outside the country are now turning down 2nd year language student visas with the assumption the applicant is working inside Thailand or applying for EDs too many times. This trend started earlier this year.

 

What visa options are left?

 

Tourist visas: I hear these are the riskiest option due to the large number of entries and exits. This is seen on the immigration officer's computer and every following entry gets that much riskier. Plus the headache of border runs.

 

Work visa: Good option for those employed locally.

 

Business visa (including BOI): Requires 4+ Thai employees for every foreigner visa issued, so micro-businesses need not apply.

 

Elite visa: Good option for those with the money.

 

Marriage or child visa: I personally am not keen on options involving these unless there is a no-hassle sub-option here.

 

If I have missed any please share.

[Maestro]

Generally speaking, the type of visa you apply for should depend on the purpose of your trip to Thailand.

[thaitero]

Those who do remote work may want to consider

https://iglu.net/ or similar umbrella company to get legal status.

[orbital777]

Honestly for me and most of my friends here, all under 50, unmarried, and running online businesses, the best "visa" now is simply a different country.

 

Only the Elite Visa makes any sense for me. I was denied on the basis of an accidental 2 day overstay lol. 

 

Kind of crazy when I spend far more money here than the average retiree as well as speak and read the language fluently.

 

194 other countries to choose from though! I will be leaving next month ????

Edited September 27, 2019 by orbital777

[HeyHeyHey]

11 minutes ago, orbital777 said:

Honestly for me and most of my friends here, all under 50, unmarried, and running online businesses, the best "visa" now is simply a different country.

Correct, plenty of countries with open arms to people like that

 

I'm not paying 500,000 fee for permission to spend more money (actually more than I would spend back home)

[mockingbird]

8 hours ago, thaitero said:

Those who do remote work may want to consider

https://iglu.net/ or similar umbrella company to get legal status.

Not any more. As of last month Iglu are no longer able to obtain work permits.

Was only a matter of time before they started to target those type of companies.

Edited September 27, 2019 by mockingbird

[ThomasThBKK]

9 minutes ago, mockingbird said:

Not any more. As of last month Iglu are no longer able to obtain work permits.

Was only a matter of time before they started to target those type of companies.

Oha, but not surprising, do you know if they also cancelled the old permits, what about their existing customers?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, orbital777 said:

Honestly for me and most of my friends here, all under 50, unmarried, and running online businesses, the best "visa" now is simply a different country.

 

Only the Elite Visa makes any sense for me. I was denied on the basis of an accidental 2 day overstay lol. 

 

Kind of crazy when I spend far more money here than the average retiree as well as speak and read the language fluently.

 

194 other countries to choose from though! I will be leaving next month ????

 

Most including Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia etc have WORLDWIDE TAXATION on all your income, there aren't that many countries actually.

 

Philippines is one that has taxation like Thailand, so are a bunch of  Latin american countries (costa rica, panama imo), but most others including europe (portugal and co) don't.

Edited September 27, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[fletchsmile]

You've covered the main ones. There are a whole host of others though, many won't be relevant.

 

Investment could be an option. But would be THB 10mn+ and a fair few hoops.

 

If you're married to a Thai or have Thai dependents/kids, both of those are relatively easy options, and in my view the easiest solution. I've been doing marriage extension for years - you can then overlay a WP without changing your visa status if you get a job or lose your job. I would have considered the dependent route if anything happened to my wife while I was under 50.

 

Of course marrying/ having kids just for the sake of a visa isn't necessarily the wisest of moves LOL

 

Visa Code
D (Diplomatic)
F (Official)
TR (Tourist)
S (Sport)
B (Business)
IM (Investment through Ministry)
IB (Investment through BOI-Board of Investment)
TS (Transit)
C (Captain or Crew)
ED (Education)
M (Mass media of communication)
R (Religion)
RS (Research and Science)
EX (Expert)
O (Others)

Edited September 27, 2019 by fletchsmile

[thaitero]

44 minutes ago, mockingbird said:

Not any more. As of last month Iglu are no longer able to obtain work permits.

Was only a matter of time before they started to target those type of companies.

Well, Good to know..

It seems all kind of work around solutions to stay long time are going to be erased and one really has to apply correct visas and extensions and if there is not one, go elsewhere...

[CNX GUY]

do you mean that you are required to file a tax return - and pay tax on your income - if you are in one of those countries in addition to having to file and pay in your home country?

[cerox]

If you do not have a long-term gf that you want to marry, are not 50 or older, do not work here, and are not willing to do play this "every year a new passport and hope my ED school is not on the blacklist" game, there are no other options than Elite or investment visa.

 

I am in your shoes too, I will start exploring the Philippines in three weeks. Vietnam is nice, the taxation is an issue, even if it is not enforced now, it might be in the future. Also, in Vietnam there is only that 1y "business" visa - since we do not do business there, it is the same corrupt scam as ED visas always were in Thailand. I would consider Vietnam as a nice travel adventure, but do not buy anything there - one day they might seize the business visa and you have to leave.

 

Philippines offers SRRV visa for condo investment or alternatively 20k USD in a bank at age 35. Look at SRRV smile / classic.

[CNX GUY]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Oha, but not surprising, do you know if they also cancelled the old permits, what about their existing customers?

 

 

 

 

Most including Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia etc have WORLDWIDE TAXATION on all your income, there aren't that many countries actually.

 

Philippines is one that has taxation like Thailand, so are a bunch of  Latin american countries (costa rica, panama imo), but most others including europe (portugal and co) don't.

do you mean that you are required to file a tax return - and pay tax on your income - if you are in one of those countries in addition to having to file and pay in your home country?

[cerox]

As far as I know as long as you do not work in Vietnam and there is no reason to believe you work (so you do it discreetly in your room) I have not heard of anyone who had to pay taxes in Vietnam. There was one incident liked in this forum before, but this person was actually working in Vietnam and the employer somehow did not pay all the required taxes / deducted from the salary.

But they could change this law anytime, it bears a certain risk.

[mockingbird]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Oha, but not surprising, do you know if they also cancelled the old permits, what about their existing customers?

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure. I just know that a friend of mine was in the process of getting a work permit through them, got his 90 day stamp, and had arrived in Thailand only to the receive an email from them informing him that they are no longer able to hire foreign employees. Apparantly the BOI told them they need to revise their business model. 555

 

I would imagine at the very least, their existing customers/employees won't be able to renew their work permits.

[brewsterbudgen]

Honestly for me and most of my friends here, all under 50, unmarried, and running online businesses, the best "visa" now is simply a different country.
 
Only the Elite Visa makes any sense for me. I was denied on the basis of an accidental 2 day overstay lol. 
 
Kind of crazy when I spend far more money here than the average retiree as well as speak and read the language fluently.
 
194 other countries to choose from though! I will be leaving next month [emoji846]

Why is how much money you spend here relevant? If it's unimportant where you live, pick somewhere where you can meet the visa requirements. But don't kid yourself that not living here will make any difference to anyone.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[ThomasThBKK]

48 minutes ago, cerox said:

As far as I know as long as you do not work in Vietnam and there is no reason to believe you work (so you do it discreetly in your room) I have not heard of anyone who had to pay taxes in Vietnam. There was one incident liked in this forum before, but this person was actually working in Vietnam and the employer somehow did not pay all the required taxes / deducted from the salary.

But they could change this law anytime, it bears a certain risk.

 

The vietnamese law says you have to pay taxes, just because people get away with tax evasion and the vietnamese gov didn't catch them yet doesn't mean anything...They block you from leaving the country in that case, if caught and might just lock you away. Not doing it is clearly breaking the law and communist countries aren't nice to people they catch.

 

Quote

Residents in Vietnam have to pay tax on their worldwide income at progressive tax rates. Therefore, salary earned from working abroad is taxable in Vietnam. Non-residents in Vietnam have to pay tax on their Vietnam-sourced income only, at the flat rate of 20 percent.

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html#targetText=Residents in Vietnam have to,flat rate of 20 percent.

 

 

How can you base your future on the fact your are living somewhere dodging taxes, that can go wrong so bad, so fast. Especially with the only available visa being a business visa, they KNOW you have taxable income.

 

I personally don't get this kind of behaviour in my head... it's extremely irresponsible. outright dangerous and stupid to recommend to other people.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

The vietnamese law says you have to pay taxes, just because people get away with tax evasion and the vietnamese gov didn't catch them yet doesn't mean anything...They block you from leaving the country in that case, if caught and might just lock you away. Not doing it is clearly breaking the law and communist countries aren't nice to people they catch.

 

Quote

Residents in Vietnam have to pay tax on their worldwide income at progressive tax rates. Therefore, salary earned from working abroad is taxable in Vietnam. Non-residents in Vietnam have to pay tax on their Vietnam-sourced income only, at the flat rate of 20 percent.

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html#targetText=Residents in Vietnam have to,flat rate of 20 percent.

 

Agree with this - don't risk it.  Do less than the "resident" time/yr in Vietnam if you don't want to pay whatever taxes they demand.  One can web-search on "five flags" method of living to avoid being income-taxed to death.

Edited September 27, 2019 by JackThompson

[pookondee]

There are hundreds of posts here everyday..

everyone is leaving, they dont want us here, the baht is to high,

its to expensive,

to many Scams, corruption, deadly roads, bad Thai lady..

on and on it goes!!!

 

But yet there are other hundreds that will do and try absolutely ANYTHING to stay here fulltime at all ages below 50y.o.

 

Posters are even getting rejected with legit visas, made fly all the way back home

yet they are planning straight away to try to get back and amazingly are ready to pay for a new lot of airfares and do the whole thing over again!

its crazy!

 

These guys are so keen to get back into Thailand, they fly all over the place, going to adjoining countries first and enter at land borders to avoid the risk at the airports.

 

So really...its just strange to me

how two groups of westerners have such very different/opposing opinions about Thailand??

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, pookondee said:

There are hundreds of posts here everyday..

everyone is leaving, they dont want us here, the baht is to high,

its to expensive,

to many Scams, corruption, deadly roads, bad Thai lady..

on and on it goes!!!

 

But yet there are other hundreds that will do and try absolutely ANYTHING to stay here fulltime at all ages below 50y.o.

 

Posters are even getting rejected with legit visas, made fly all the way back home

yet they are planning straight away to try to get back and amazingly are ready to pay for a new lot of airfares and do the whole thing over again!

its crazy!

 

These guys are so keen to get back into Thailand, they fly all over the place, going to adjoining countries first and enter at land borders to avoid the risk at the airports.

 

So really...its just strange to me

how two groups of westerners have such very different/opposing opinions about Thailand??

The guys who really want to get back to Thailand and will pay a lot of money will quite [probably be earning money in Thailand and thats why they need to go back 

[Goinghomesoon]

9 hours ago, CNX GUY said:

do you mean that you are required to file a tax return - and pay tax on your income - if you are in one of those countries in addition to having to file and pay in your home country?

Depending on your country/ies and your employment/income status you may be required to, yes.

[gk10002000]

The visas really have not changed much.  They are just enforcing existing laws and scrutinizing the policies a bit.  Granted some things have changed in the world since the original immigration laws and policies were enacted. Things like digital nomads are claimed to be new, but in reality such type of work is no different than a person that takes a sabbatical from work at home, then goes to Thailand and spends some time writing a book, traveling around Asia, or just taking a break from things back home, etc.  And many more people now do have income and assets to support a not working, long time tourist type of life style, which could allow them to spend one or two or more years in Thailand.  I certainly could.  There really needs to be a better long term tourist non-working type of visa.  I mean what is wrong about visiting a country for a length of time?  One may not be interested in getting married.  One is not interested in really fully retiring away from home, one may be under 50, etc.    

[pookondee]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

The guys who really want to get back to Thailand and will pay a lot of money will quite [probably be earning money in Thailand and thats why they need to go back 

ok, I thought earning big bucks would mean having legit work visa and package?

Like the university lecturers, reportedly on 100k/month?

 

So you think a % of these guys getting knocked back are working illegally?

But how would an Immigration Officer at an airport know that?

 

If going off information on this site, it seems the MO of Thai IOs:

1. Dont like your country of origin and/or your skin pigment.

2. Dont like the look of your visa history.

3. Basically just dont like the look of you.

 

I can see a certain demographic here though..

and if you tick all the boxes above, and are younger, have lots of tatts,

appearing scruffy, hung-over, stink of ciggies etc..

 

Then yeah, i can imagine how a prudish Thai female IO would react to that.

 

[55Jay]

12 hours ago, thaitero said:

Well, Good to know..

It seems all kind of work around solutions to stay long time are going to be erased and one really has to apply correct visas and extensions and if there is not one, go elsewhere...

Uh, yeah, fktards, that's pretty much what the Thais are trying to tell you.  Duh!

[dcnx]

23 hours ago, Maestro said:

the type of visa you apply for should depend on the purpose of your trip to Thailand.

Is there a cheap sex with young uneducated farmers wearing flip flops visa?

 

 

[Hackney35]

13 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Why is how much money you spend here relevant? If it's unimportant where you live, pick somewhere where you can meet the visa requirements. But don't kid yourself that not living here will make any difference to anyone.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

On a macro level though it would make much more sense for the government to realise that actually many youngish westerns don’t need to ‘work’ in 9-5s anymore and can afford to live in cheap countries for 1+ years and spend their passive income there....

Yes for one person it doesn’t matter but if you aggregate up the policy it would make a decent impact to Thai GDP to have a minimum income threshold for an annual visa that must be sent to a Thai bank account each month of 80k+ baht.

Then you get people in who consume and therefore provide jobs for Thai people. 

You also price out the begpackers and cheap Charlies that no one wants here.

Makes more sense economically than giving out LT visas to old people on low pensions and in potentially poor health.

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, orbital777 said:

Kind of crazy when I spend far more money here than the average retiree as well as speak and read the language fluently.

I don't think the money you spend in Thailand is a big deal to them... you actually spend it on yourself and for your own benefit. They already have plenty of people here that speak Thai. Why not benefit your own country with your presence? 

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, Hackney35 said:

On a macro level though it would make much more sense for the government to realise that actually many youngish westerns don’t need to ‘work’ in 9-5s anymore and can afford to live in cheap countries for 1+ years and spend their passive income there....

Yes for one person it doesn’t matter but if you aggregate up the policy it would make a decent impact to Thai GDP to have a minimum income threshold for an annual visa that must be sent to a Thai bank account each month of 80k+ baht.

Then you get people in who consume and therefore provide jobs for Thai people. 

You also price out the begpackers and cheap Charlies that no one wants here.

Makes more sense economically than giving out LT visas to old people on low pensions and in potentially poor health.

If you have a passive income of 80k a month, surely you could afford a TE visa.

[helloagain]

On 9/27/2019 at 3:39 AM, Maestro said:

Generally speaking, the type of visa you apply for should depend on the purpose of your trip to Thailand.

O visa. 

[onera1961]

18 hours ago, CNX GUY said:

do you mean that you are required to file a tax return - and pay tax on your income - if you are in one of those countries in addition to having to file and pay in your home country?

I don't know about European countries' rules but for the USA you first pay tax in your country of residnce (estmate will do) and then deduct those taxes from you US obligation. US citizens mus pay tax for world wide incomes irrespective of country of residence. That's one of the reason many wealthy Americans give up their passport and acquie foreign passports. Of course, it is out of the reach for most so called digital nomads desperately trying to live in Thailand on unhygenic street foods, somtam and 40-baht pork soup. and 6K one room apartment and posting videos of cheap living in YouTube hoping to strike it big. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by onera1961

[cerox]

Thomas,

you are right with your post about Vietnam and thanks for opening my eyes. It seems so many people are "moving" to Vietnam now, for now I have never seen or heard of someone that was affected by their tax laws on worldwide income. But you are right, it could change overnight, esp. with a "business" visa. This would be a much more uncomfortable situation than in Thailand where we "only" get kicked out, having enough time on visa-exempt to pack our stuff etc.

Vietnam seems still good for travels less than 6 months, so we are not a tax resident. It is a nice country, and accommodation and transport is really cheap in my view.

 

After your post I looked at some information about the tax laws - so you cannot even rent a condo for more than 6 months a year. Otherwise you would be a tax resident on worldwide income too, similar to many countries in Europe - as soon as you have a key and an apartment which you could use anytime you wanted.