Putin wants new world order

[rooster59]

Moment of truth coming for Brexit with time running out, EU and Britain say

By Gabriela Baczynska and Kate Holton

 

FILE PHOTO: Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson gestures as he speaks at the parliament, which reconvenes after the UK Supreme Court ruled that his suspension of the parliament was unlawful, in London, Britain, September 25, 2019, in this screen grab taken from video. Parliament TV via REUTERS

 

BRUSSELS/LONDON (Reuters) - Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney warned on Friday that time was running out for Britain and the European Union to hammer out a divorce deal with the British Brexit minister also saying the moment of truth was approaching.

 

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has vowed Britain will leave the EU on Oct. 31 whether or not a deal has been agreed with the bloc, and while both sides say they are keen to reach an agreement, there is little sign of the deadlock being broken.

 

Johnson's opponents say leaving the EU without a deal to keep most of its trading arrangements in place would plunge Britain into economic chaos. The government says it has made preparations to avoid serious disruption.

 

The EU agreed a withdrawal package with former Prime Minister Theresa May but this was rejected three times by the British parliament over the "Irish backstop" - an insurance policy to prevent the return of a hard border between the British province of Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.

 

After a meeting with EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier in Brussels, Ireland's Coveney said negotiations had to be on the basis of a "serious proposal" from the British on how they would replace the backstop.

 

"That hasn't happened yet and until there is a serious proposal in writing ... then the gaps that are wide at the moment will remain. And time is running out," he told reporters.

 

Barnier said the bloc was firmly united on insisting on a legally operative fix for the Irish border issue, saying it needed to avoid a hard border and protect the integrity of the EU's single market.

 

"The onus is on the British prime minister and his team," Coveney said, adding that Ireland was open to extending the Brexit departure date. "An extension is preferable to no deal," he said.

 

Britain is due to present concrete legal texts on their Brexit plans next week after the Conservative Party conference.

 

This month, British lawmakers forced through a law which compels Johnson to seek an extension to Brexit unless he has agreed a new deal with the EU by Oct. 19 or got parliament's approval to leave without an agreement, an outcome a majority of lawmakers and many businesses believe would be calamitous.

 

Johnson has repeatedly said he would abide by the law, which he has dubbed the "surrender act", but Britain would definitely leave on Oct. 31, without explaining the apparent contradiction.

 

"We will obey the law, but we're confident we can come out on Oct. 31 and the best way to do that is to get a deal," Johnson told reporters on Friday.

 

"That's why the surrender act is so damaging," he added. "It has had the effect with our European friends making them think: 'maybe parliament can block this thing, maybe they will be forced to extend.' If you're in a negotiation that obviously makes it more difficult."

 

Britain's Brexit minister Stephen Barclay also met Barnier on Friday and said there was a long way to go until they reached a deal.

 

"I think we are coming to the moment of truth in these negotiations," Barclay said in a television interview, repeating the message that the backstop had to go but a deal could be struck with good will on both sides.

 

ANGER

 

With agreement still some way off, Britain's exit from the European Union still remains clouded in uncertainty three years after the vote to leave, and the country remains utterly divided with animosity reaching ever new levels.

 

Parliament reached boiling point on Wednesday when Johnson and his opponents spent hours hurling allegations of betrayal and deceit across the chamber of the House of Commons.

 

Opposition lawmakers accused Johnson of stoking hatred and cast him as a cheating dictator. One called him a liar.

Johnson dismissed death threats against female law-makers that echoed his own language as "humbug" and described the law brought by opponents to potentially delay Brexit as a "surrender" bill.

 

On Thursday, Johnson's most senior adviser Dominic Cummings told politicians they should not be surprised by the mounting anger and the atmosphere would get worse unless Brexit was delivered.

 

"If you are a bunch of politicians and you say that we swear we are going to respect the result of a democratic vote and after you lose you say 'we don't want to respect that vote'. What do you expect will happen?" said Cummings, the mastermind behind the 2016 campaign to leave the EU.

 

Britain's leading bishops intervened on Friday to say all sides should moderate their language.

 

Johnson, the public face of the Vote Leave campaign, has also said that tempers need to calm down and that resolving Brexit would "lance the boil". The Conservative Party elected him as leader in July on his promise to break the impasse and take Britain out of the bloc by Oct. 31.

 

But he has faced defeat at every turn, losing his parliamentary majority, every vote in the legislature, and a groundbreaking case in the Supreme Court which overturned his decision to suspend the assembly.

 

Cummings rejected a suggestion that the government would back a "soft Brexit" - one that keeps Britain more closely aligned to EU rules - in order to get a deal by Johnson's October deadline.

 

Despite the uncertainty and turmoil, Cummings said they were not under any pressure and the situation was far less difficult than winning the 2016 referendum.

 

"This is a walk in the park compared to that. All the Vote Leave team, we are enjoying this, we are going to win, we are going to leave, don't worry," he said.

 

(Writing by Kate Holton and Michael Holden; Editing by Angus MacSwan, Toby Chopra and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-09-28

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[OneMoreFarang]

Boris wants to crash out. That is obvious by now. And he wants an election before that happens or maybe on the day it happens before the chaos starts.

 

What I think most amazing with all those no-deal supporters is that there is no such thing as no deal. There might be no deal on the 31st October, but latest in November they will try to work on a deal again. And the first questions will be the boarder, the payment and the rights of the people. Same same, but different because if they leave without a deal there is no transition period.

 

And all this is obviously well knows - at least for all the people who listen to more than just Boris.

[Basil B]

Time is running out for Boris.

 

The moment of truth is heading his way...

 

Quote

The police watchdog is to decide whether or not to investigate Boris Johnson for a potential criminal offence of misconduct in public office while he was London mayor.

It is alleged businesswoman Jennifer Arcuri received favourable treatment due to her friendship with Mr Johnson.

The prime minister was referred by the Greater London Authority on Friday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49859321

 

[StreetCowboy]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Boris wants to crash out. That is obvious by now. And he wants an election before that happens or maybe on the day it happens before the chaos starts.

 

What I think most amazing with all those no-deal supporters is that there is no such thing as no deal. There might be no deal on the 31st October, but latest in November they will try to work on a deal again. And the first questions will be the boarder, the payment and the rights of the people. Same same, but different because if they leave without a deal there is no transition period.

 

And all this is obviously well knows - at least for all the people who listen to more than just Boris.

Do trade deals normally go to parliament?

Is there anything to stop Boris agreeing May’s deal the same day as we leave with No Deal?

[Emdog]

A moment of truth probably all you could hope for with Boris and what's left of his gang. A minute? Nah, too long

[evadgib]

8 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Do trade deals normally go to parliament?

Is there anything to stop Boris agreeing May’s deal the same day as we leave with No Deal?

It has been stated elsewhere (by the EU) that a trade deal could be implemented extremely quickly if UK fulfills it's obligation in full by severing all contact and negotiating as an truly independent state rather than one with an elastic band around it's gonads.

Edited September 28, 2019 by evadgib

[sandyf]

15 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Do trade deals normally go to parliament?

Is there anything to stop Boris agreeing May’s deal the same day as we leave with No Deal?

May's deal is not a trade deal, it is a Withdrawal Agreement and that must be agreed by parliament.

No Deal is a misnomer, it is in fact No Withdrawal Agreement which is a default position. If that does happen, any trade deal will be a long time coming and certainly not in the UKs favour. Every chance that the Irish problem could stop a trade deal indefinitely. Not that that would worry Bojo, governor of the 51st state is probably quite appealing.

The rhetoric from Cummings is a bit cocky, like they have something else up their sleeve. Possibly along the lines John Major has suggested.

[Basil B]

41 minutes ago, evadgib said:

It has been stated elsewhere (by the EU) that a trade deal could be implemented extremely quickly if UK fulfills it's obligation in full by severing all contact and negotiating as an truly independent state rather than one with an elastic band around it's gonads.

quickly...????

 

What they are saying is they could cut a few corners off what will probably take the best part of a decade but seeing how the brexit negotiations have gone do not expect anything less than a few decades...

[nauseus]

There might have been a bit more progress if parliament had stayed prorogued after all. All they've done since they came back to the benches is sling ???? at each other! 

[phantomfiddler]

Just get out, Boris, do your thing then fire all the tossers in Parliament who opposed you ! (that,s what Donald would do !).

Business wise, any well made product put out at a reasonable price is going to attract customers, who are interested in value for money, not politics ????

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

May's deal is not a trade deal, it is a Withdrawal Agreement and that must be agreed by parliament.

No Deal is a misnomer, it is in fact No Withdrawal Agreement which is a default position. If that does happen, any trade deal will be a long time coming and certainly not in the UKs favour. Every chance that the Irish problem could stop a trade deal indefinitely. Not that that would worry Bojo, governor of the 51st state is probably quite appealing.

The rhetoric from Cummings is a bit cocky, like they have something else up their sleeve. Possibly along the lines John Major has suggested.

Please advise what John Major thinks the reptilian Cummings might do, I didn't read it anywhere... thanks.

 

[StreetCowboy]

42 minutes ago, nauseus said:

There might have been a bit more progress if parliament had stayed prorogued after all. All they've done since they came back to the benches is sling ???? at each other! 

It would have been reassuring if some grown-ups had emerged from the government side. Sadly, it will only get better after it’s got worse.  The trouble is that until you’ve been there, you don’t know what rock bottom is.

 

I got lost once on the way home from the pub, in a foreign city with which I was not familiar, miles from anywhere, with no idea how to get home, and it started to tip down stair-rods at 4 am. “This could not get any worse” I thought, but a stumble over a footpath obstacle and a thousand pounds of dental bills proved me wrong.

 

Maybe Brexit won’t be so bad. At least we’ll have our sovereignty, although from the rhetoric I hear, possibly at the expense of our Sovereign.

[StreetCowboy]

Do we have any separate deals with third countries other than as part of the EU?

What is the progress in replicating those deals post-Brexit?

Or will be on WTO with everyone?

 

we will still be able to trade with the Isle of Man, right?

[tebee]

57 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

Just get out, Boris, do your thing then fire all the tossers in Parliament who opposed you ! (that,s what Donald would do !).

Business wise, any well made product put out at a reasonable price is going to attract customers, who are interested in value for money, not politics ????

Now you still imagining that the UK is country that actually makes things. Thatcher got rid of all that. Now we make most of out money from finance and other invisibles. Most of that will evaporate post a no deal brexit as UK firms will be unable to work in the EU due to being no longer licenced. 

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Now you still imagining that the UK is country that actually makes things. Thatcher got rid of all that. Now we make most of out money from finance and other invisibles. Most of that will evaporate post a no deal brexit as UK firms will be unable to work in the EU due to being no longer licenced. 

Jacob Rees-Mogg’s plan is that we will be the new British Virgin Isles, free from the inquisitive purview of those who would hamper our money-laundering industry.

 

If that’s not the industry where you work, you might consider some dramatic reskilling

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

quickly...????

 

What they are saying is they could cut a few corners off what will probably take the best part of a decade but seeing how the brexit negotiations have gone do not expect anything less than a few decades...

...more than a few have opined on a return to Canada +++. I have no idea how long it will take but it's up to the EU to get off it's arrse once they realise UK is serious about turning off the tap.

Edited September 28, 2019 by evadgib

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

...more than a few have opined on a return to Canada +++. I have no idea how long it will take but it's up to the EU to get off it's arrse once they realise UK is serious about turning off the tap.

You’re not a very good bully.  If you want to bully people, you have to hurt them first, see how they react, and then threaten them.

 

The EU will do fine without us; some companies may suffer, some belts may be tightened, their policies may change against what we would have liked, but they will go on.

 

We will be faced with a loss of any influence in our second-biggest market, after our domestic market.

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards, no pain without gain, strength through adversity, strength through joy, eh?

[Basil B]

7 minutes ago, evadgib said:

...more than a few have opined on a return to Canada +++. I have no idea how long it will take but it's up to the EU to get off it's arrse once they realise UK is serious about turning off the tap.

We will be luck to get a China+*/-

 

Get over it, Brexit is "Dead Man Walking"... In the end the Labour will go for Revoke A50 because they do not to be decimated by the libDems.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Basil B

[Number 6]

Just do it!

 

We've got your back on trade.

 

Jeeeeez losing respect for British by the day.

 

[evadgib]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

You’re not a very good bully.  If you want to bully people, you have to hurt them first, see how they react, and then threaten them.

 

The EU will do fine without us; some companies may suffer, some belts may be tightened, their policies may change against what we would have liked, but they will go on.

 

We will be faced with a loss of any influence in our second-biggest market, after our domestic market.

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards, no pain without gain, strength through adversity, strength through joy, eh?

It's in their interests as much as ours.

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

It's in their interests as much as ours.

If they can get rid of Farage out of their parliament, they will have gained so much. They must be counting down the days

 

[evadgib]

18 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

If they can get rid of Farage out of their parliament, they will have gained so much. They must be counting down the days

 

All the better if he ends up in ours ????

[Libai]

Remember that Parliament enacted the 'EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018' which 'enshrined-into-law' that we would leave the 'EU' on the agreed date, with, or without, a deal. Parliament then 'deferred' that date 'twice' but cannot continue doing that indefinitely. Also Parliament cannot amend that Act because that would require the Royal Assent, which the Queen grants only upon the request of the Prime Minister.

Both Conservative and Labour MPs were elected on manifesto commitments to implement Brexit with-or-without a deal. Those parties plus the DUP gained 85% of the votes in the 2017 election.

Parliament has set itself in conflict with the electorate and must at all costs be prevented from sabotaging a meaningful Brexit. 

[billd766]

36 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

You’re not a very good bully.  If you want to bully people, you have to hurt them first, see how they react, and then threaten them.

 

The EU will do fine without us; some companies may suffer, some belts may be tightened, their policies may change against what we would have liked, but they will go on.

 

We will be faced with a loss of any influence in our second-biggest market, after our domestic market.

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards, no pain without gain, strength through adversity, strength through joy, eh?

quote "We will be faced with a loss of any influence in our second-biggest market, after our domestic market."

 

We didn't have much influence before when Cameron was in charge so there isn't much to lose anyway.

[StreetCowboy]

5 minutes ago, Libai said:

Remember that Parliament enacted the 'EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018' which 'enshrined-into-law' that we would leave the 'EU' on the agreed date, with, or without, a deal. Parliament then 'deferred' that date 'twice' but cannot continue doing that indefinitely. Also Parliament cannot amend that Act because that would require the Royal Assent, which the Queen grants only upon the request of the Prime Minister.

Both Conservative and Labour MPs were elected on manifesto commitments to implement Brexit with-or-without a deal. Those parties plus the DUP gained 85% of the votes in the 2017 election.

Parliament has set itself in conflict with the electorate and must at all costs be prevented from sabotaging a meaningful Brexit. 

That’s an entertaining suggestion. A minority within parliament sabotaged Brexit, and now think they have the right to ride rough-shod over British interests to pursue a no-deal Brexit that suits their personal career and financial ambitions.

We have a deal. It was agreed. Agree a different deal, enact the deal, or abandon Brexit.

I don’t think Boris’s strategy of delaying Brexit indefinitely until we forget about it is working

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

quote "We will be faced with a loss of any influence in our second-biggest market, after our domestic market."

 

We didn't have much influence before when Cameron was in charge so there isn't much to lose anyway.

You’ve obviously not been involved in drafting European standards.  The ones I have to deal with have British footprints all over them. At the moment.

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

You’ve obviously not been involved in drafting European standards.  The ones I have to deal with have British footprints all over them. At the moment.

To be expected given they're in English & relying on Common law; or at least were until the supreme court torpedoed it last week.

Edited September 28, 2019 by evadgib

[SheungWan]

Remember that Parliament enacted the 'EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018' which 'enshrined-into-law' that we would leave the 'EU' on the agreed date, with, or without, a deal. Parliament then 'deferred' that date 'twice' but cannot continue doing that indefinitely. Also Parliament cannot amend that Act because that would require the Royal Assent, which the Queen grants only upon the request of the Prime Minister.

Both Conservative and Labour MPs were elected on manifesto commitments to implement Brexit with-or-without a deal. Those parties plus the DUP gained 85% of the votes in the 2017 election.

Parliament has set itself in conflict with the electorate and must at all costs be prevented from sabotaging a meaningful Brexit. 

Did they run out of green ink?

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[StreetCowboy]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

To be expected given they're in English & relying on Common law; or at least were until the supreme court torpedoed it last week.

Common Law expects parliament to supervise government.  Maybe your country has a different common law

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

It would have been reassuring if some grown-ups had emerged from the government side. Sadly, it will only get better after it’s got worse.  The trouble is that until you’ve been there, you don’t know what rock bottom is.

 

I got lost once on the way home from the pub, in a foreign city with which I was not familiar, miles from anywhere, with no idea how to get home, and it started to tip down stair-rods at 4 am. “This could not get any worse” I thought, but a stumble over a footpath obstacle and a thousand pounds of dental bills proved me wrong.

 

Maybe Brexit won’t be so bad. At least we’ll have our sovereignty, although from the rhetoric I hear, possibly at the expense of our Sovereign.

tip down stair-rods?????