transam Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 10 hours ago, Bruntoid said: I think the saying you are scratching around for is ‘none so blind as those who will not see’ errr the horse wears blinkers so as not to be spooked by fellow horses and it’s surroundings - the connection is ? Still, refreshing to see a leaver venture into historical literature - the Sun must have upped its game. The Sun.....5555.....I have never bought any newspaper in my life....???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobodysfriend Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 21 hours ago, nobodysfriend said: Deal = refused by EU - Boris will not be able to brexit without deal by the end of this month - against the law - He will have no choice but resign - EU will agree to another delay - LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson will send a letter to the European Union asking for a Brexit delay if no divorce deal has been reached by Oct. 19, the government acknowledged for the first time on Friday. - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-court-extension/uk-pm-johnson-will-ask-for-brexit-extension-if-no-deal-by-october-19-court-told-idUSKBN1WJ1BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenterry Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 18 hours ago, vogie said: At the end of the day DR is that when the government gives the choice of leaving or remaining to the electorate and states that it will implement that decision, the damage would be untold if that decision wasn't carried out, this is more than Brexit, this is democracy. The total apathy of some remainers saying that 'oh I think they should revoke Art50' is beyond belief, it's a case of I'm not bothered about the democratic vote, it's all about me and what I want. Even Stephen Kinnock (a very staunch remainer) has agreed that the referendum must be respected, he is amassing quite a few Labour MPs behind him to support a vote on any deal should one be offered to parliament again, many must now regret not voting for Mays surrender deal when they had the chance. But this zombie parliament is no good for the country, leaver or remainer, all thay are doing is treading water and hoping for a miracle. What good would an extension do, the EU are not going to change their stance, but when you have our own MPs doing their work for them, why should they bother, as proven they are very good at sitting back and waiting for cracks in other countries armour, and as of yet the weakest links have been the remainer MPs. Revoking of Article 50 is the realistic democratic solution, currently, because it's clear that both the government and parliament, let along the EU cannot reach any agreement. And until that changes, let the population recommence their lives, as would business - and let the politicians sort out and agree on what happens next, be it a GE, new referendum, or focusing on the domestic policies of the UK, which, IMO, is far more realistic and necessary than debating ad nauseum the ideology of whether Britain leaves or remains in the EU. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, stephenterry said: Revoking of Article 50 is the realistic democratic solution, currently, because it's clear that both the government and parliament, let along the EU cannot reach any agreement. And until that changes, let the population recommence their lives, as would business - and let the politicians sort out and agree on what happens next, be it a GE, new referendum, or focusing on the domestic policies of the UK, which, IMO, is far more realistic and necessary than debating ad nauseum the ideology of whether Britain leaves or remains in the EU. Revoking of Article 50 would not be a "democratic solution". Article 50 was invoked because: the then Government campaigned in the 2015 General Election, and was elected with a manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU, That Government then passed an Act of Parliament allowing the referendum to be held. The referendum was subsequently held, and produced a majority vote in favour of leaving the EU. The government subsequently passed an Act of Parliament mandating it to invoke Article 50. Those were all decisions taken by Parliament, with a direct electoral mandate. In addition, the referendum produced an unequivocal answer to the question it posed - a majority of those who voted wished for the UK to leave the EU. That was with a turnout (72%) greater than any other electoral exercise for over twenty years! All those could be described as "democratic actions", they were either taken by the electorate themselves, or according to the manifestoes on which the electorate elected their Parliament and thus Government. The same is true of the EU Withdrawal Act of 2018 - passed with an overwhelming majority from both major parties, both of whose manifestoes declared that their policy was for the UK to leave the EU. To subsequently revoke Article 50, without consulting the electorate, through a General Election or a subsequent second referendum (remember that referendums are by convention mandated by a General Election - not that constitutional convention appears to matter any more!) would be a profoundly non democratic act. The way out of this mess, debate over which is indeed becoming increasingly nauseous, damaging to our democracy and it's institutions; which in my opinion dwarfs any domestic policy debate, and has rendered the Government unable to govern, is a General Election. That would either produce a Government with a mandate for leaving the EU, or a Government with a mandate for revoking Article 50, either by Act of Parliament or following a second referendum. That is the democratic option. For reasons I have previously advanced that is unlikely at present to happen - turkeys and Christmas? There is no democratic argument for instituting a "caretaker Government", whether it be led by Ken Clarke (whose ideas and enthusiasms for Europe were so convincingly dismissed by the referendum result), Harriet Harman or the Green lady from Brighton and her friends! And if the General Election results in an absolute "50/50 draw"? Then hand the keys to No 10 to Gina Miller and tell her to crack on. The Palace of Westminster, with it's car parks, dining rooms and bars would make a first rate entertainment venue. No need for all this electoral/democracy malarky. We would still be in the EU, and they don't seem to bother with it! Edited October 5, 2019 by JAG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 52 minutes ago, JAG said: Revoking of Article 50 would not be a "democratic solution". Article 50 was invoked because: the then Government campaigned in the 2015 General Election, and was elected with a manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU, That Government then passed an Act of Parliament allowing the referendum to be held. The referendum was subsequently held, and produced a majority vote in favour of leaving the EU. The government subsequently passed an Act of Parliament mandating it to invoke Article 50. Those were all decisions taken by Parliament, with a direct electoral mandate. In addition, the referendum produced an unequivocal answer to the question it posed - a majority of those who voted wished for the UK to leave the EU. That was with a turnout (72%) greater than any other electoral exercise for over twenty years! All those could be described as "democratic actions", they were either taken by the electorate themselves, or according to the manifestoes on which the electorate elected their Parliament and thus Government. The same is true of the EU Withdrawal Act of 2018 - passed with an overwhelming majority from both major parties, both of whose manifestoes declared that their policy was for the UK to leave the EU. To subsequently revoke Article 50, without consulting the electorate, through a General Election or a subsequent second referendum (remember that referendums are by convention mandated by a General Election - not that constitutional convention appears to matter any more!) would be a profoundly non democratic act. The way out of this mess, debate over which is indeed becoming increasingly nauseous, damaging to our democracy and it's institutions; which in my opinion dwarfs any domestic policy debate, and has rendered the Government unable to govern, is a General Election. That would either produce a Government with a mandate for leaving the EU, or a Government with a mandate for revoking Article 50, either by Act of Parliament or following a second referendum. That is the democratic option. For reasons I have previously advanced that is unlikely at present to happen - turkeys and Christmas? There is no democratic argument for instituting a "caretaker Government", whether it be led by Ken Clarke (whose ideas and enthusiasms for Europe were so convincingly dismissed by the referendum result), Harriet Harman or the Green lady from Brighton and her friends! And if the General Election results in an absolute "50/50 draw"? Then hand the keys to No 10 to Gina Miller and tell her to crack on. The Palace of Westminster, with it's car parks, dining rooms and bars would make a first rate entertainment venue. No need for all this electoral/democracy malarky. We would still be in the EU, and they don't seem to bother with it! This sounds as a "Brexit death rattle " …. It became so complicated from all sides that they better "sponge it " and start a new as 3 years made many see it with different eyes , now all difficulties and consequences comes to daylight …. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I wouldn't pay much attention to the media its mostly all BS. The people arnt the media and sentiment for leaving and getting on with it has literally made all the opposition terrified of an election, the think tanks certainly do. An idiot on TV should even be able to notice that... mmmmm or maybe not ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slip Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 22 hours ago, Krataiboy said: Here's an interesting take on the Brexit brouhaha from the other side of the Pond. <snipped link to fake news site> Across the pond? That is a Russian propaganda website. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, david555 said: This sounds as a "Brexit death rattle " …. It became so complicated from all sides that they better "sponge it " and start a new as 3 years made many see it with different eyes , now all difficulties and consequences comes to daylight …. On the contrary, it is the simplest, most direct and most democratic solution. It boils down to: ask the people, They won't do it. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, englishoak said: I wouldn't pay much attention to the media its mostly all BS. The people arnt the media and sentiment for leaving and getting on with it has literally made all the opposition terrified of an election, the think tanks certainly do. An idiot on TV should even be able to notice that... mmmmm or maybe not ???? Hmmmm....weeeeell, I suppose you did......???? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 A couple of troll posts have been removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 11:44 PM, englishoak said: I wouldn't pay much attention to the media its mostly all BS. The people arnt the media and sentiment for leaving and getting on with it has literally made all the opposition terrified of an election, the think tanks certainly do. An idiot on TV should even be able to notice that... mmmmm or maybe not Remind me again, what does Brexit mean? Will British Airways be able to fly over European countries? Will BSI be able to certify products to European standards? Who will certify new British medicines for use in Europe, and vice versa? How will British pensioners in Spain be affected? What were they voting on, again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 10 hours ago, JAG said: Revoking of Article 50 would not be a "democratic solution". Article 50 was invoked because: the then Government campaigned in the 2015 General Election, and was elected with a manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU, That Government then passed an Act of Parliament allowing the referendum to be held. The referendum was subsequently held, and produced a majority vote in favour of leaving the EU. The government subsequently passed an Act of Parliament mandating it to invoke Article 50. Those were all decisions taken by Parliament, with a direct electoral mandate. In addition, the referendum produced an unequivocal answer to the question it posed - a majority of those who voted wished for the UK to leave the EU. That was with a turnout (72%) greater than any other electoral exercise for over twenty years! All those could be described as "democratic actions", they were either taken by the electorate themselves, or according to the manifestoes on which the electorate elected their Parliament and thus Government. The same is true of the EU Withdrawal Act of 2018 - passed with an overwhelming majority from both major parties, both of whose manifestoes declared that their policy was for the UK to leave the EU. To subsequently revoke Article 50, without consulting the electorate, through a General Election or a subsequent second referendum (remember that referendums are by convention mandated by a General Election - not that constitutional convention appears to matter any more!) would be a profoundly non democratic act. The way out of this mess, debate over which is indeed becoming increasingly nauseous, damaging to our democracy and it's institutions; which in my opinion dwarfs any domestic policy debate, and has rendered the Government unable to govern, is a General Election. That would either produce a Government with a mandate for leaving the EU, or a Government with a mandate for revoking Article 50, either by Act of Parliament or following a second referendum. That is the democratic option. For reasons I have previously advanced that is unlikely at present to happen - turkeys and Christmas? There is no democratic argument for instituting a "caretaker Government", whether it be led by Ken Clarke (whose ideas and enthusiasms for Europe were so convincingly dismissed by the referendum result), Harriet Harman or the Green lady from Brighton and her friends! And if the General Election results in an absolute "50/50 draw"? Then hand the keys to No 10 to Gina Miller and tell her to crack on. The Palace of Westminster, with it's car parks, dining rooms and bars would make a first rate entertainment venue. No need for all this electoral/democracy malarky. We would still be in the EU, and they don't seem to bother with it! I don't know if you've ever climbed Everest. I haven't. A couple of friends of mine set out to do it, but there were problems, and they had to turn back. They did something different, and one of them is going back to try again this Autumn. When you fail to achieve your goals through poor planning or unforeseen misfortune, the correct thing is to step back and prepare and try again when you are ready, not to keep setting nonsensical deadlines with no plan or forethought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3NUMBAS Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 never mind UK still leaves on 31 come what may despite the benn act which was flawed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said: never mind UK still leaves on 31 come what may despite the benn act which was flawed The British glorify contempt for the law in films like The Italian Job, but Brexit will not be like that, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said: never mind UK still leaves on 31 come what may despite the benn act which was flawed please elaborate, what flaws? Are you a barstool constitutional lawyer perhaps? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krataiboy Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) On 10/5/2019 at 1:52 PM, Slip said: Across the pond? That is a Russian propaganda website. Tom Luongo is a prolific, established independent political and economic commentator based in Florida - which last time I looked is still part of the USA. It is not always wise to judge the worth of a book by the cover - let alone the bookshelf. Irrespective of the merits of the website which the Brexit article I cited, Luongo contributes to a wide variety of other publications. He also runs his own YouTube channel and has a dedicated blog (https://tomluongo.me/) with numerous other items on the Brexit saga. Edited October 6, 2019 by Krataiboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Krataiboy said: Tom Luongo is a prolific, established independent political and economic commentator based in Florida - which last time I looked is still part of the USA. It is not always wise to judge the worth of a book by the cover - let alone the bookshelf. Irrespective of the merits of the website which the Brexit article I cited, Luongo contributes to a wide variety of other publications. He also runs his own YouTube channel and has a dedicated blog (https://tomluongo.me/) with numerous other items on the Brexit saga. Toms good and unbiased. Catch him live on mondays and fridays on YT ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Toms good and unbiased. Catch him live on mondays and fridays on YT [emoji6] Just another right-wing nutter on the loose.Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Meanwhile, back in Brexitland, signs that Ireland/UK might be edging towards agreeing something. Sterling up on the reports. Brexiteers worried now that Boris might stuff them. Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, SheungWan said: Meanwhile, back in Brexitland, signs that Ireland/UK might be edging towards agreeing something. Sterling up on the reports. Brexiteers worried now that Boris might stuff them. Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app The EU already said days ago if the Irish and PM was agreeable then talks could move forwards. Like ive said a number of times imo the most likely outcome if theres a deal and we are to leave will be N Ireland as the price. That isnt stuffing Brexiteers at all thats stuffing N Ireland as it voted conclusively to remain, think 54% that would be imo fine. If the DUP agrees, and they have it would in time pave the way for reunification. Not being a unionist id be real happy to see the Irish become one nation and I think if most Brits were asked, no matter the political background most would say a united Ireland is not only inevitable but right and just. The religious dogma and bias is dying out rapidly and the time to reunify will be ripe soon. I would say the main problem is parliament agreeing to any deal. Which would be a shame because that is ironically the most likely route to a no deal hard Brexit so many fear the moment an election is called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, SheungWan said: Meanwhile, back in Brexitland, signs that Ireland/UK might be edging towards agreeing something. Sterling up on the reports. Brexiteers worried now that Boris might stuff them. Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app If he doesn't stuff them with a warmed up May surrender vassalage deal - then the coming Saturday rump parliament extension may well opt for the referendum then election which the EU has set as condition for extension. Out of the fog of war remain is starting to become a real possibility. Hope springs eternal and soon hopefully this nightmare will pass. Faragists ,ERG'S and Clean Break Brexit No Dealers should realise that ditch earmarked for Boris is opening up for you as well. Then at the election Brexit party nihilists can shred the anti-EU vote whilst tactical remainers work on getting the Remain Coalition into Parliament. A new day is dawning ....... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 The British glorify contempt for the law in films like The Italian Job, but Brexit will not be like that,More like Mr Bean.Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said: If he doesn't stuff them with a warmed up May surrender vassalage deal - then the coming Saturday rump parliament extension may well opt for the referendum then election which the EU has set as condition for extension. Out of the fog of war remain is starting to become a real possibility. Hope springs eternal and soon hopefully this nightmare will pass. Faragists ,ERG'S and Clean Break Brexit No Dealers should realise that ditch earmarked for Boris is opening up for you as well. Then at the election Brexit party nihilists can shred the anti-EU vote whilst tactical remainers work on getting the Remain Coalition into Parliament. A new day is dawning ....... Gawd...........???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 hours ago, SheungWan said: More like Mr Bean. Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Your hero.....? ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 6 hours ago, transam said: Your hero.....? ???? https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/johnny-english-is-the-spy-a-brexiteer-37382824.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I found this an interesting read...... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/brexit-london-tightens-grip-forex-104607705.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el torro Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) "EU official says johnsons brexit offer can't fly". The title of this topic, and many posters have agreed with this premise..... Except the latest thread is something along the lines of 'EU enters intense talks with the UK'...... When are posters going to stop believing politicians'/media lies, and start trying to think for themselves??! Edited October 13, 2019 by el torro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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