TM30 Questions (re. Non-O Retirement Visa Renewal)

[thaitanic]

I'm pretty confused about the TM30 situation, so could do with some help please.

 

I am a 53-year-old British man, living in a rented condo in Bangkok province. Since I turned 50 I've been successfully extending my non-O visa (retirement basis) each November at Chaengwattana using this address.

 

Unfortunately I have no rental agreement at this condo, nor have I had for the past few years, and I have almost zero contact with my Indian landlord except for when his messenger picks up a cash cheque every 2 months for the rent. I am (sort of) comfortable with this situation by now, so don't want it to become the subject of discussion of this thread.

 

However this situation means that there's probably no realistic prospect of my landlord ever posting any TM30s for me, and I don't relish the prospect of attempting to get him to do so. In view of this, we decided to start using my Thai girlfriend's apartment in Bangna as my address for my next visa extension in November, and future TM30s, with her as the owner.

 

The last TM30 I imagine having been submitted for me would be a Koh Lanta hotel in February. I've flown in and out of the country twice since then.

 

So we mailed a paper TM30 (my 1st one) to Chaengwattana (more than 24 hours after my last arrival from the UK). The TM30 has been rejected and returned because Bangna is in Samut Prakhan province, not Bangkok.

 

In the meantime, my girlfriend has got herself registered on the Android "Section38" app (for submitting TM30s), using the details of her apartment in Bangna, but it's not clear which visa type to choose.

 

Questions:

1. If we use my girlfriend's address in Samut Prakhan province for TM30s (& therefore my next visa extension, so the addresses match), can I still do my visa extension at Chaengwattana, or would I have to do it at the Samut Prakhan Immigration Office?
2. Are others using the app successfully? Does it actually work?
3. Which type of visa should we choose on the app? There is a large choice but not obvious which type matches my visa, which was a non-immigrant O retirement visa for 90 days, subsequently extended. I can add screenshots from the app if it helps.
4. Can my girlfriend use the web browser interface to submit a TM30 with the same details as the app, or would she need to register again?
5. Can we expect a fine for late submission of TM30 when I go to extend my visa, or will it be sufficient to have a TM30 on file?
6. Anything else I should know or do differently now, since TM30s are being required?

[RBOP]

I could be wrong but I believe if your claiming to live at Samut Prakhan then you need to do your visa work through them (not Chanengwattana).

[Peterw42]

6 hours ago, thaitanic said:

Questions:

1. If we use my girlfriend's address in Samut Prakhan province for TM30s (& therefore my next visa extension, so the addresses match), can I still do my visa extension at Chaengwattana, or would I have to do it at the Samut Prakhan Immigration Office?
2. Are others using the app successfully? Does it actually work?
3. Which type of visa should we choose on the app? There is a large choice but not obvious which type matches my visa, which was a non-immigrant O retirement visa for 90 days, subsequently extended. I can add screenshots from the app if it helps.
4. Can my girlfriend use the web browser interface to submit a TM30 with the same details as the app, or would she need to register again?
5. Can we expect a fine for late submission of TM30 when I go to extend my visa, or will it be sufficient to have a TM30 on file?
6. Anything else I should know or do differently now, since TM30s are being required?

You would need to do extension at the local immigration office for the address you are giving. The App and the website both work and the same username and password works for both. 

A TM30 on file should be ok to avoid a fine, at worst the IO may ask where you were between arrival in thailand and arrival at your address, you would of course say elsewhere.

Maybe next time the messengers comes to collect the rent, insist on owners ID and copy of bluebook before paying rent, so you can start doing the TM30 for bangkok property in the future. Or move everything over to the Samut Prakan address and deal with that office.

[DrJack54]

As Peter advised deal with Samut Prakan office. Get your girl to file a tm30 for any reentry to los. Don't know how you previously obtained extensions at CW without a lease. Last couple of times I even need map of condo and current lease.

[Suradit69]

7 hours ago, thaitanic said:

Which type of visa should we choose on the app? There is a large choice but not obvious which type matches my visa, which was a non-immigrant O retirement visa for 90 days, subsequently extended. I can add screen

You apparently do not have a visa but an extension of stay based on retirement. Your visa expired on the date shown on the visa sticker in your passport. Visas cannot be extended, only the permission to stay.

 

So since you don't have a "non o retirement visa" one can understand why that isn't an option . The option should be an "extension of stay based on retirement,"but people use such a variety of expressions for what you have, it's difficult to say which option you should use without knowing the choices on offer.

[Olmate]

31 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

You apparently do not have a visa but an extension of stay based on retirement. Your visa expired on the date shown on the visa sticker in your passport. Visas cannot be extended, only the permission to stay.

 

So since you don't have a "non o retirement visa" one can understand why that isn't an option . The option should be an "extension of stay based on retirement,"but people use such a variety of expressions for what you have, it's difficult to say which option you should use without knowing the choices on offer.

So really your just going on about the same old visa/extension topic,nothing for the OP!

[KKr]

allow me to throw a spanner in the works.
if you live in province A (in your GF place according to dox submitted) but effectively stay in province B, then literally interpreting the regulations, you are not in compliance.
Imho, and moreover so since this is an obvious evasion of the regulations and not a mere oversight or misunderstanding, this may have unexpected consequences.
(think refusal to extend permission to stay, fines etc.)

Chances are you will not be found out though,
but if found out it would not be difficult for IO to prove where you are effectively staying.
Good luck.

[pmarlowe]

not sure about the office, CW or SP, but i am told you will need a TM30 receipt stamped by the owner of the property (or address) plus a copy of your lease agreement, again officially stamped by the owner. for sure this will be necessary for CW. not sure for SP. The latter, the lease agreement in your name might pose and issue. In any case, I would be digging into this if I were you. of course you will also need the usual proof of funds, photos, etc and probably need to draw the map to your residence. i always do mine in November as well at CW.

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes because he said he couldn't find any option for non o retirement visa. So the terminology matters . 

 

 

Not sure how your defense of ignorance benefits the O/P. I addressed something asked by the O/P, but you're (note spelling of the abbreviation of you are) just being argumentative for no purpose.

 

And I added that it was necessary to see the choices on the app to answer his question because many people call it different things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

His visa is Non-Immigrant 90 

in the TM30 app. It's the initial type of visa that counts. 

[thaitanic]

Thank you all very much for the replies.

 

I understand KKr's warning about compliance, but regardless I think dealing with Samut Prakhan is going to be my best option, given my tricky scenario. I might ask my Bangkok landlord to cooperate, but he definitely wants to remain under the authorities' radar, and anyway for other reasons I am not keen on getting tied into a new 6 or 12-month rental agreement at the present time.

 

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

...Don't know how you previously obtained extensions at CW without a lease. Last couple of times I even need map of condo and current lease.

In the last 2 years a tenancy agreement was simply not a requirement for me at CW. I did have to draw a map last time. The list of documents I submitted in Nov 2017 is here, and IIRC it was the same in Nov 2018. Anyway it will not be a problem to make a "tenancy agreement" between my girlfriend and me, showing me renting her apartment.

 

I'm attaching 4 screengrabs from the Android Section38 app showing the choice of visa type. Given Max69xl's helpful comment, we'll choose the 3rd option in the first image, unless someone says differently.

 

Three follow-up questions:

 

1. @pmarlowe mentions TM30 receipt and lease agreement "stamped by the owner". Stamped with what exactly? The owner in my case is an individual, not a company.
2. How about a situation where a non-O retirement extender simply stays with a Thai host for free as a guest (with appropriate TM30s submitted)? Any chance of a visa extension in that scenario?
3. As well as my girlfriend submitting a TM30, should I also submit a TM28 to declare my change of address from Bangkok to Samut Prakhan? If so, would it be appropriate to submit TM30 & TM28 to Samut Prakhan at the same time? My idea is that we would make a "tenancy agreement" to also start on the same day.

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, thaitanic said:

Thank you all very much for the replies.

 

I understand KKr's warning about compliance, but regardless I think dealing with Samut Prakhan is going to be my best option, given my tricky scenario. I might ask my Bangkok landlord to cooperate, but he definitely wants to remain under the authorities' radar, and anyway for other reasons I am not keen on getting tied into a new 6 or 12-month rental agreement at the present time.

 

In the last 2 years a tenancy agreement was simply not a requirement for me at CW. I did have to draw a map last time. The list of documents I submitted in Nov 2017 is here, and IIRC it was the same in Nov 2018. Anyway it will not be a problem to make a "tenancy agreement" between my girlfriend and me, showing me renting her apartment.

 

I'm attaching 4 screengrabs from the Android Section38 app showing the choice of visa type. Given Max69xl's helpful comment, we'll choose the 3rd option in the first image, unless someone says differently.

 

Three follow-up questions:

 

1. @pmarlowe mentions TM30 receipt and lease agreement "stamped by the owner". Stamped with what exactly? The owner in my case is an individual, not a company.
2. How about a situation where a non-O retirement extender simply stays with a Thai host for free as a guest (with appropriate TM30s submitted)? Any chance of a visa extension in that scenario?
3. As well as my girlfriend submitting a TM30, should I also submit a TM28 to declare my change of address from Bangkok to Samut Prakhan? If so, would it be appropriate to submit TM30 & TM28 to Samut Prakhan at the same time? My idea is that we would make a "tenancy agreement" to also start on the same day.

1)

A copy of the lease/rental contract shall be signed by yourself at the bottom in blue ink. I think there are downloadable templates of contracts online. Just Google it. Maybe someone at TVF has a link.

2)

If your wife as the owner reports you as the guest using the TM30 app, then everything is ok. This is by far the easiest way. 

3)

You have to ask the local immigration if they want the TM28 submitted. They might say no. Do the TM30 report online, and in my opinion that's enough. And take a screenshot when your report is done, and print it out. You might need a copy for next extension. You can also save a copy on your phone/computer.

 

[Tanoshi]

Would it not be much more honest to advise your landlord of the TM30 requirement.

Obtain signed copies of his Tabien Baan and Passport if he's Indian.

How can you be sure he is the owner and not sub letting the Condo if he refuses to co-operate.

 

Using your girlfriends address to obtain an extension at an Immigration office where you don't actually reside could be construed as 'Address fraud' or an attempt to avoid law enforcement authorities.

What about the address on your bank account(s), Driving licence etc.

 

You need to think it through before deciding.

[thaitanic]

Thanks again.

 

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

....2)

If your wife as the owner reports you as the guest using the TM30 app, then everything is ok. This is by far the easiest way....

 

To be clear, can a non-O retirement visa extension be granted on the basis of me as her non-paying guest, or is the immigration office likely to insist on a rental agreement in my name? We can of course ask this in a phone call to Samut Prakhan, in addition to the TM28 question, but I'd be interested if anyone has an opinion on it.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, thaitanic said:

Thanks again.

 

To be clear, can a non-O retirement visa extension be granted on the basis of me as her non-paying guest, or is the immigration office likely to insist on a rental agreement in my name? We can of course ask this in a phone call to Samut Prakhan, in addition to the TM28 question, but I'd be interested if anyone has an opinion on it.

You don't need a contract if your living with your wife in her house.

And who is paying rent to his wife?

You're the one who needs to show >400k or >40k monthly. 

You just need:

• Copy of spouse’s house registration
• Copy of spouse’s identity card

And your wife should report you as the guest when it's time for the TM30.

[thaitanic]

And if she's just my girlfriend, not my wife?

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, thaitanic said:

And if she's just my girlfriend, not my wife?

Same papers as in my last post, and same procedure regarding the TM30 report.

You are still the one who has to come up with >800k or >65k monthly. 

[mrfaroukh]

Ask him to send you agreement by his money collector. It is actually him who should get you TM30 and he can do it online after he register

[thaitanic]

We couldn't get through to Samut Prakan Immigration Office to ask my questions (always engaged), so I called the immigration helpline on 1111 and almost immediately was speaking to a very helpful lady with very good English.

 

She confirmed what Max69xl said, that if I am staying with my girlfriend then there is no need to show a rental agreement when I renew my visa.

 

However, when asked, she did apologetically say that I am required to submit a TM28 for my move from Bangkok to Samut Prakan, and that it can only be done by me in person at the Samut Prakan Immigration Office, and not by mail or by any app.

 

So we're going to try and submit TM28, TM30 and visa extension application all on the same day, when my 45-day-in-advance window arrives.

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, thaitanic said:

We couldn't get through to Samut Prakan Immigration Office to ask my questions (always engaged), so I called the immigration helpline on 1111 and almost immediately was speaking to a very helpful lady with very good English.

 

She confirmed what Max69xl said, that if I am staying with my girlfriend then there is no need to show a rental agreement when I renew my visa.

 

However, when asked, she did apologetically say that I am required to submit a TM28 for my move from Bangkok to Samut Prakan, and that it can only be done by me in person at the Samut Prakan Immigration Office, and not by mail or by any app.

 

So we're going to try and submit TM28, TM30 and visa extension application all on the same day, when my 45-day-in-advance window arrives.

You have to submit the TM28 (Change of Address) at the new Immigration office because you're moving to another province and also the TM30. Then you have officially moved and have nothing to do with CW anymore.