How Do You Deal With Incompetents?

[garro]

I have just found out that due the incompetence of a postman here in Thailand and a tutor in Ireland they have both likely cost me 28,000 bath, and delayed my return to full-time teaching for a year.

I have needed to send documents to Dublin regulary over the last couple of years and up until recently this has been fine using EMS. Although a bit costly I found EMS very effeicient and worth the money.The problem started in January when a document I sent was returned to me from Dublin. The person I had sent it to wasn't in when the post arrived (it needed a signature) and he couldn't be arsed to collect it from the post office so it was retuned to me. Even though this document missed its deadline I was told that I could resend as I had proof of postage. Resent and it was received without problem. I was told that I could no longer use EMS as it required a signature at the other end.

I needed to send another document in February. I went to the local post office and explained that I needed to get this letter to Ireland in two weeks but couldn't send it any method that involved a signature at the other end. Mai pen rai, MR Posty assured me my letter will be there in ten days. Left the post office feeling pleased with another job well done but noticed that I had only been charged 36 bath and the receipt seemed to have surface mail written on it. I returned to the post office to query this and emphasise that this document needed to get there in two weeks but again ' mai pen rai' and 'don't wolly'.

I did wolly a bit so decided to send an email to the tutor asking him to email me if he hadn't received within two weeks. He did contact me yesterday but waited six weeks and he still hasn't received it. This is way past the deadline and I have no proof of postage. I expect the letter is probably somewhere in the Indian Ocean.

How do other members of TV cope with incompetent f**kwits?

Edited March 24, 2007 by garro

[jeebusjones]

In a situation like that, where I'm fairly certain the person doesn't know what they're talking about, I tend to get pretty angry. That postal worker clearly had no idea what he was talking about, and took very big chances with something that was very important for you.

Best idea is to keep calm and insist on what you want, even though they'll try to talk you out of it. Insist that you want to see the "airmail" stamp on the envelop, and don't leave until you've seen it with your own eyes.

Unfortunately, I find it difficult not to lose my temper and usually get angry very quickly when faced with such blatant incompetence and utter disregard for its effects on other people.

[jumnien]

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with international post. I've encountered much of the same so I've switched to only using DHL and Fedex. As far as what to do with anger and resentment, well, that falls under the category of spiritual development, doesn't it. When the shit hits the fan, that's when I appreciate my mentors and teachers most. And sharing your troubles is probably helping them out more than you realize.

Relax, and concentrate on the breath.

If you are in the Nana area, relax, and concentrate on the breasts!

Bitch for a little while, kick something, then start laughing about it all - works every time...

[garro]

Thanks guys, the really annoying thing is that there is absolutely nothing I can do about this. A part of me would love to tell Mr Posty what an incompetent f**kwit I think he is but that would solve nothing. I would also love to send a less than flattering email to the other incompetent who was meant to email me if he didn't receive it on time.

Ah well.

Does anyone know how long it will take mail to reach Europe by surface?

It is already way too late but at least that would be proof that it was sent.

[dave111223]

Fax or Email the documents?

Edited March 24, 2007 by dave111223

[garro]

Fax or Email the documents?

They wouldn't allow me to do this as apparently it would be too costly for the receipients to print off the documents. I also suspect that this particular person is not computer literate as it took six weeks to reply to an email.

[lannarebirth]

I empathize with you about the Thai posatal worker giving you the wrong information, but really the root of your problem lies in Ireland. They should have a designated person available to sign for all incoming mail. It is a coorespondence based education is it not? The Thai postal service provides a solution for quick delivery, which you had been availing yourself of, but it was the westerners daft policy that is to blame IMO.

[garro]

I empathize with you about the Thai posatal worker giving you the wrong information, but really the root of your problem lies in Ireland. They should have a designated person available to sign for all incoming mail. It is a coorespondence based education is it not? The Thai postal service provides a solution for quick delivery, which you had been availing yourself of, but it was the westerners daft policy that is to blame IMO.

I agree with you but still feel annoyed with Mr Posty. I am fairly certain that he knew he had made a mistake when I went back to the Post Office but he just didn't want to admit it. He could have corrected the problem. This suspicion is only confirmed by the fact that when I went back this month to post a similar size letter it was over 90 bath. When I questioned him about this he said the price had changed.

The policy of the University in Ireland is definitely stupid. The problem is that although the course is with Dublin City University each module is led by individual tutors who need to receive the assignments.

[ThaiFelix]

In a situation like that, where I'm fairly certain the person doesn't know what they're talking about, I tend to get pretty angry. That postal worker clearly had no idea what he was talking about, and took very big chances with something that was very important for you.

Best idea is to keep calm and insist on what you want, even though they'll try to talk you out of it. Insist that you want to see the "airmail" stamp on the envelop, and don't leave until you've seen it with your own eyes.

Unfortunately, I find it difficult not to lose my temper and usually get angry very quickly when faced with such blatant incompetence and utter disregard for its effects on other people.

Sorry for the OPs misfortune but, the way I read it, he was happy to accept the postal worker's word that it would get there by surface in time. Only 36 baht was paid so it would definetely only have been surface. (I am not excusing the postie by the way)

There is no way I would have believed or chanced this and would have demanded it go by air and stuck around to see the airmail sticker go on.

And to the first question...no I dont handle incompetence very well at all. Its always been a saying of mine 'I dont have any patience with incompetence'.

[h90]

Well post to UK and Ireland is very very unreliable.

But don't know who to blame:

All other our branches to UK/Ireland=OK

All other destinations from Thailand=OK

Thailand to UK/Ireland: a very high percentage is lost, and we send registered.

If you need something like that again, contact me, I can send FedEx at arround 700 Baht there or to our forwarding branch in Austria...

[COBBER]

I allways stay in the post office/agency untill the stamps or franking sticker and air mail stickers have been put on whatever i am sending.

You might get some weird looks and the odd "stupid farang" inuendos , but at least you know that everything is corect at that stage.

[garro]

In a situation like that, where I'm fairly certain the person doesn't know what they're talking about, I tend to get pretty angry. That postal worker clearly had no idea what he was talking about, and took very big chances with something that was very important for you.

Best idea is to keep calm and insist on what you want, even though they'll try to talk you out of it. Insist that you want to see the "airmail" stamp on the envelop, and don't leave until you've seen it with your own eyes.

Unfortunately, I find it difficult not to lose my temper and usually get angry very quickly when faced with such blatant incompetence and utter disregard for its effects on other people.

Sorry for the OPs misfortune but, the way I read it, he was happy to accept the postal worker's word that it would get there by surface in time. Only 36 baht was paid so it would definetely only have been surface. (I am not excusing the postie by the way)

There is no way I would have believed or chanced this and would have demanded it go by air and stuck around to see the airmail sticker go on.

And to the first question...no I dont handle incompetence very well at all. Its always been a saying of mine 'I dont have any patience with incompetence'.

I know your right. I should have demanded to see the airmail sticker. It is just that this is our local Post Office and I have dealt with this same guy many times. He seemed competent before and he was adamant that it would go by air and not to mind what was on the receipt. I didn't want to question his honesty/competence but I will know better next time.

[Tywais]

I had only been charged 36 bath and the receipt seemed to have surface mail written on it.

I assume this was much larger/heavier then a standard envelope? I just airmailed two envelopes a couple of days ago at the university post office and it was 19B each. Looking at the receipt now and clearly states Letter-AIR to the US. That's nearly always the amount I've paid unless the weight goes up to the next price point, at which is usually around 36B. And usually arrives around the 10 day mark from Chiangmai.

You can look up the postal charges here > http://www.thailandpost.com/search_ems_en.asp

Edited March 24, 2007 by tywais

[Alf Witt]

I allways stay in the post office/agency untill the stamps or franking sticker and air mail stickers have been put on whatever i am sending.

You might get some weird looks and the odd "stupid farang" inuendos , but at least you know that everything is corect at that stage.

Very wise, Cobber. It's not unknown for them to pocket your money and throw your letter in the bin. Postcards and birthday cards are particularly susceptible to this. Always see the stamp you have paid for stuck on the envelope. If they don't want to do it in your presence you have to wonder why? It's not exactly a time consuming task.

[Ijustwannateach]

If it's something quite important and I get the feeling (even if I'm using Thai or it appears that the Thai person understands simple English) that the other person is a clueless munchkin, I don't trust them- that's why *I* do, anyway. I tried to open a bank account once in a new bank here- the girl in charge of new accounts was clearly clueless and even though I was sure I had the right requirements (paperwork, cash in hand) she tried to tell me I needed over 60,000B to open a simple savings account. At this point, even though I'm sure I could have cleared things up by calling a supervisor or bringing along a Thai friend, I dropped the bank like a hot potato. If they have poor enough judgement to hire someone who wasn't going to find a way to take money from a customer who was trying to give it to them, the place is just headed for disaster. I went to another bank, where an older and obviously experienced CSR processed my account opening in less than 10 minutes.

If I'm in a store and it takes more than 3 workers and/or 15 minutes to do something fairly obvious (like verify whether a specific known item is available or in stock) I smile politely and don't go back to that store. If they can't handle a simple request for an item in their own store (in their own language, for the most part), then what are you gonna do when there's actually a problem?

I'm lucky enough to live near a fairly big post office where there are one or two well-educated workers who understand the difference between surface, air mail, etc.

If it's something more minor, like the typical situation of store cashiers who take over 10 minutes to ring up and bag a one-item purchase from a single customer in their own store, I simply shake my head, smile slightly, and make it clear how much I pity them.

"S"

[ProThaiExpat]

The posters, so far, have not made incompetence Thailand specific, as in my experience it is worldwide.

Granted, with staff available for hire at 5k a month, we see a great deal more incompetence in Thailand in my view than where high priced help requires management to maximize competence.

On top of that, language is a stumbling block in Thailand as is cultural difference.

I have seen my Thai struggle with incompetence on a daily basis, and even with great patience, yelling does get involved.

Sometimes the incompetence is on both sides of the transaction.

We all have more than enough examples in our own experience that I need not get specific.

Thus my only saving grace is to blaze a trail through whatever transactional mess occurs and then use that blazed trail forever in the future. Experimentation is just too risk dependent for me to try different means when trying to accomplish something in Thailand.

I am, however, reminded of the adage "The difference between a groove and a grave is merely a matter of depth".

[DaffyDuck]

I know your right. I should have demanded to see the airmail sticker.

Ever considered getting your own AIR MAIL stickers, or an AIR MAIL stamp, or even (gasp) hand writing (in print) AIR MAIL on the letters you are sending?

While certainly there were several layers of incompetence (particularly on the Irish side) involved, I think the crux of the issue lies in your own lack of competence in this case, in now crying 'foul' pointing your fingers at others.

- If you had any doubt after your 36 Baht discovery, you could have send duplicates of the documents (you made copies, didn't you?) the same day, making sure they were sent the right way, and thus covering your bases.

- Furthermore, instead of waiting for the Irish tutor to contact you, you could have made yourself a note to contact the institute, or the proper person, after 10 days - in which case, should it not have arrived, you could have resent it, or faxed it, or what not.

- Lastly, if it's really important, Fedex.

So, this isn't entirely just the other people's incompetence we are talking about, here.

[Alf Witt]

If I'm in a store and it takes more than 3 workers and/or 15 minutes to do something fairly obvious (like verify whether a specific known item is available or in stock) I smile politely and don't go back to that store. If they can't handle a simple request for an item in their own store (in their own language, for the most part), then what are you gonna do when there's actually a problem?

I understand your sentiment but you are likely to run out of places to shop.

Here is just one experience in "Homeworks" whilst a shop assistant was showing me a number of products that were available only on order:

Self: I'd like to order that one, please.

Assistant: Yes. (no other response or action)

Self: (after a minute or so) I'd like to order that one, please.

Assistant: Yes. (no other response or action)

Self: (after a minute or so) I'd like to order that one. (now jabbing at it with my index finger so there could be no misunderstanding)

Assistant: Yes, that one. (still no other response or action)

Self: (after another minute or so) I'd really like to order that one, please.

Assistant: What, today?

Self: Yes, today, if you don't mind.

Assistant: Yes. (still no other response or action)

Self: (after another minute or so) Are you going to take my order?

Assistant: (suddenly enlightened) Oh! You mean now?

I sometimes wonder how they succeed in selling anything.

Another frequent scenario which readers may have experienced when waiting (sometimes with a few others) to pay for a purchase. The store has about 5 or 6 assistants but there is a customer who has a small question about an item he intends to purchase the answer to which is not known by the assistant and not immediately obvious without reading the instructions.

Result: All 6 employees will stand together discusssing the question and ignore all the other customers waiting to be served. This will continue indefinitely until one of the other customers coughs loudly or asks to be served.

I have to assume that the employees receive no training. Apart from the poor customer service, their behaviour presents a golden opportunity for shoplifters.

[Erwin1011]

So, how are you going to deal with yourself ?

You failed to take the necessary precautions you have to take when dealing with services outside your cultural environment. You just ASSumed that it would work the way it does in your home country.

[dominique355]

Instead of using the services of the official Thai Post, try the "private" post offices you can find pretty everywhere. Some are called "Speey Ants" or similar. In the Soi where I live, we have two such offices. They are competent, efficient, but it costs.

Otherwise I would rather use UPS, FedEx or DHL and don't forget to include a phone no. of the recipient. Another advantage is that you can trace the parcel by computer.

Off the topic, have you recently picked up a parcel sent to you from abroad? I had to go to the Thai Post Office here in Bangkok ... wow ... now that's an experience.

[Alf Witt]

Another shopping experience I'd like to share. This time the location was HomePro.

Previously I had seen a water tap (faucet) that I was tempted to purchase as I liked the design but the price was too high. The next day I was in the same store when I saw an employee placing "price reduced" stickers on some items. I watched and waited and was happy to note that he placed one on the item in which I was interested. I decided to buy and told the shop assistant.

His immediate response was: "Not have".

I asked why he had just place a "priced reduced" sticker on an item that was not available.

He just laughed.

I asked if I could order the item. He said, "No, cannot. Now, not make".

After some further discussion he agreed to telephone another branch of the same store across town. The good news was that they had the item in stock and would hold it for me. I made my way there and presented the assistant there with a piece of paper from the other store with the stock number of the item and mentioned the fact that the other store had called to reserve the item.

Her response was, "Solly. Not have".

After discussing about the other store having called to confirm that it was in stock (now with about three other assistants in attendance) the response was still, "Solly. Not have".

As the prices were reduced also in this store I decided to choose another tap and after browsing the display selected an item, asking if it was available.

"Have. Have." came the chorus of voices from the assistants obviously pleased to have a solution to the problem.

One of them dived under the counter and came out with a box which he opened with a flouish in front of me.

Its contents? The tap I wanted at the beginning.

The reaction from the assistants? Again, laughter, accompanied by "Solly, solly".

I had to laugh with them but my thoughts were what an incompetent bunch of clowns.

[samtam]

Whilst in the ranting mode:

I agree with you about Home Pro. Now I've used them a few times I understand their "system". Very little if anything is in stock and has to be ordered, which is a pain in the derriere, as it requires another visit. In the end what you want is usually available, but now I never expect to get it first time around.

Next bitch: If a sales clerk is dealing with one customer, they will quite often stop in the middle of that process to deal with you, and vice-versa, thus delaying both or several customers, rather than completing with one at a time.

Bitch 3: I went to Villa in soi 49 as I was early for a dental appointment in the Dental Hospital opposite. I found they had many items I can't normally find in Tops, so I thought I'd stock up. Firstly I asked a sales girl whether they did home delivery, and she said, "yes" but only if I spent THB2,000. And she asked where I wanted delivery, so I told her, "Sathorn". Shopped and went to pay, but before putting items on the counter for payment specified my delivery request. "No problem". "To where?", so I wrote it down. Finished all the check out and then was asked for payment, (some THB4,000). Said, fine, but asked her to confirm delivery. 5 or 6 people hovering, manager called. Discussion about delivery address etc etc. OK, "can", but THB200. Unusually for me, I didn't blow a gasket, nor did I have the strength to seek out the original sales girl etc, but I just said, "Sorry", "no can", and left the store, unpaid, so some poor sod would have to unpack the bags and replace the items on the shelves.

Talking of things postal: I use the Mail Boxes counter in Silom Complex for most of my mail. Costs more, but usually arrives and if the letter is particularly important, I use EMS. Whenever I send airmail, I either use an airmail envelope, or an airmail inkstamp. Without fail the girl always puts another airmail sticker or inkstamp on said envelope. Just so that no one is in any doubt that this letter is going AIRMAIL.

Sorry, a quiet day of reflection today. Better go and find something useful to do!