How can a foreigner have Tax ID in Thailand?

[waxpro]

To be a vendor with an online like Amazon, they make it a must to provide tax ID, 

even if you are not US citizen, still need to provide this,

what can a foreigner (non-amercian) staying in Thailand with O visa (family) do and get this tax information? 

[Matzzon]

Yes, just go in to your local revenue office and ask for one. It should be enough with your passport and proof of address. 

[Camillof]

Local revenue office, being ready to fill a declaration of income and bracing yourself for being taxed on it in the future.

[topt]

13 hours ago, Camillof said:

Local revenue office, being ready to fill a declaration of income and bracing yourself for being taxed on it in the future.

Perhaps it has changed but many posters on here have a tax id in order to claim back interest withheld by banks as they don't have any other Thai income - or enough to go over the allowance. Most don't make any "declaration" or file a full tax return.

YMMV as perhaps some offices ask for this........  

[CM Dad]

Just work and pay taxes here and you will be given one.  It is a green colored card with your name and number.  You keep it for life and can use it no matter what kind of legal job you have.

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, waxpro said:

...what can a foreigner (non-amercian) staying in Thailand with O visa (family) do and get this tax information?

I've just been through the process to get one, for me it was extremely difficult.

 

The TIN (Tax Identification number) is the same as the number one might have in a Yellow House Book, and on a pink ID-card for aliens. However, a real proof of tax – for making annual tax return – is a small computer printed label, same as a company limited tax ID card.

 

 

You need to go to the local revenue office, and find the desk for "tax ID registration".

 

In my case they wanted me to show proof of income – for example from employment in a Thai company – without that, no registration. However I insisted, and came back another day showing that I had a capital gain profit from some SET-stocks I've sold. They were not really interested, before I showed my pink ID-card, then someone important kindly said that I could apply for a tax ID registration, and kindly did all the paperwork herself.

 

The revenue office needed from me copies of passport information page, visa, proof of stay for more than 180 days in 12 month; proof of address, i.e. can be House Book; in my case also copy of pink ID-card; and proof of some taxable income.

 

Probably a non-O for with extension based on family is better when applying for tax ID than a non-O with extension based on retirement; i.e. I'm, not allowed to have a Thai working income. However, I could have taxable income from abroad, but I presume that most retired people live from savings only, or a retirement pension not taxable here due to DTA.

 

When it's so difficult to be allowed to pay tax – beyond withheld interest and dividend tax – no wonder that only 11 million Thais makes a tax return every year, and out of them, only 4 million actually pays income tax; it was said in a news story yesterday...????

[Kalasin Jo]

Interesting question. Right now I am definitely not tax resident in Thailand as I spend less than 180 days a year here. I am a Brit, resident and tax resident in France so under UK / French DTC I declare and pay in France and am nil rated for UK tax where my pensions arise. For a number of reasons Brexit might change all this and I might decide to give up in France and move full time to Thailand. Now if I cease to be tax resident in France, even though not tax resident in the UK the UK HMRC would have first dibs on my pension income for income tax unless I registered in Thailand and got the UK to accept that and continue my nil rating there. Actually I'm not sure, at first glance, I would pay less tax by doing that as the Thai tax bands are very low and the charged % quickly rises on what we foreigners might think very modest incomes. But I understand that there are allowances, which might make a significant difference, for dependant wife, children, close family, that are not available to me in either France or UK.

 

Anyone tried this where they do not work and all income is arising from foreign, in my case UK, pensions? Although if I did move full time to Thailand I would then, most likely,  transfer a million or so, perhaps more, in to Thailand and put on bank deposit or invest. Either of which would lead to Thailand arising bank interest or dividends.

[khunPer]

35 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

the UK HMRC would have first dibs on my pension income for income tax unless I registered in Thailand and got the UK to accept that and continue my nil rating there.

You shall check the DTA between Thailand and UK as it should states where your retirement pension will be taxed, probably UK.

You can find the DTAs here.

 

Thai tax rates might be preferable, you can read more about them here.

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, topt said:

Perhaps it has changed but many posters on here have a tax id in order to claim back interest withheld by banks as they don't have any other Thai income - or enough to go over the allowance. Most don't make any "declaration" or file a full tax return.

YMMV as perhaps some offices ask for this........  

 

If you wish to claim back tax withheld on your bank interest, you have to complete a tax return. After the first one, they will send you one by post each year. 

 

If you go to your local tax office, they will help you complete it. 

 

To be fair, vastly more helpful than anywhere else I've lived.

[topt]

38 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

If you wish to claim back tax withheld on your bank interest, you have to complete a tax return. After the first one, they will send you one by post each year. 

Not necessarily true.

I have never completed a full Thai tax return (PND90 or 91) since I started to reclaim about 5 years ago. They do send one to me in the post but when I checked with Jomtien Revenue office I was told I did not need to complete. I just fill in a form 10 to claim every year.

[topt]

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

You shall check the DTA between Thailand and UK as it should states where your retirement pension will be taxed, probably UK.

You can find the DTAs here.

 

Thai tax rates might be preferable, you can read more about them here.

@Kalasin Jo The DTA between UK and Thailand specifically does not include pensions unless a civil service pension - this has been discussed and argued multiple times in the past. If you want the specific mention in the DTA I can dredge it out.

@khunPer The UK version synopsis of all DTAs is very clear and not so much detail.......

[khunPer]

33 minutes ago, topt said:

@khunPer The UK version synopsis of all DTAs is very clear and not so much detail.......

Thanks. My Scandinavian country might be little special, as it says that retirement pensin, if not as former government employed, can be taxed in both countries, i.e. Thailand and Denmark...????

 

I read to my surprise from this page about UK that:

Quote

The DTA between the UK and Thailand does not permit the payment of UK pensions to a Thai resident without being subject to UK taxation at the marginal rate. This means that residents of Thailand will pay up to 45% tax on their pensions.

They may also be required to pay tax in Thailand and will not receive tax credits as a result of their double taxation position.

Government Service Pensions are treated a little differently

and

Quote

If the pension is remitted from the UK in the same year as it arises, 80% ‘double-tax’ could apply at the top rate.

 

[waxpro]

Actually, what are the benefits, or just a one benefit to receive as a foreigner living here and paying taxes?

Appreciate if you can provide detailed information,

Thanks,

 

[khunPer]

11 hours ago, waxpro said:

Actually, what are the benefits, or just a one benefit to receive as a foreigner living here and paying taxes?

Appreciate if you can provide detailed information,

Thanks,

If you live here more than 180 days it legally makes you a tax resident, benefits or not.

 

Benefits depends on which country you originate from, and the DTA between Thailand and your home country...

• The DTA could give you benefits like lower withholding tax on stock dividends in your home country, i.e. 10 percent dividend tax iso. whatever tax you pay.
• Royalty income from your home country could be taxed between 5 percent (for example from music) to 15 percent in your home country.
• Non work income from your home country – could be fees of some kind – could be tax free in your home country, and either instead taxable if Thailand if transferred same year as earned, or legally tax free also in Thailand if transferred the following calendar year, or later.
• In some cases a pension income might be taxed in Thailand instead of home country, which, depending of home country income tax rate, might be less tax.

Coming from a country with World-record in high taxation anything that could be taxed after Thai-rates, would be preferred...????

[waxpro]

On 10/13/2019 at 12:53 AM, khunPer said:

If you live here more than 180 days it legally makes you a tax resident, benefits or not.

 

Benefits depends on which country you originate from, and the DTA between Thailand and your home country...

• The DTA could give you benefits like lower withholding tax on stock dividends in your home country, i.e. 10 percent dividend tax iso. whatever tax you pay.
• Royalty income from your home country could be taxed between 5 percent (for example from music) to 15 percent in your home country.
• Non work income from your home country – could be fees of some kind – could be tax free in your home country, and either instead taxable if Thailand if transferred same year as earned, or legally tax free also in Thailand if transferred the following calendar year, or later.
• In some cases a pension income might be taxed in Thailand instead of home country, which, depending of home country income tax rate, might be less tax.

Coming from a country with World-record in high taxation anything that could be taxed after Thai-rates, would be preferred...????

simply, there is no any benefit, this was the answer of the officer,

obviously, this is the main reason why most people do not pay tax, because no any benefits to receive at the other hand, the opposite in western countries where the tax money used to support the poorer, jobless get some basic income to survive, education and medication free and guaranteed to everyone, etc,,