Thailand to demand proof of health insurance for 'risky' long-term visitors

[Curt1591]

7 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I think that's a myth. I have only heard of one person who came here specifically for med reasons. How many do you know of??

I don't know any. But, many inquiries, and testaments, seem to bolster the myth.

[sawadee1947]

10 hours ago, ezzra said:

So when this stupidity and paranoia ends? this government is going from the silly to the ridiculous, let the government tell us how many non-o visa holders have treated in Thai hospitals and didn't had the money to pay, numbers and figures please real figures, not made up ones, i have been here for 35 years and i don't know any long term staying foreigners  that has been treated in a hospital and got away without paying...

You forgot...... Prayut got a meeting with his friend Donald who was teaching him about fake news... ????

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, whitemouse said:

Has anyone been treated in Thai hospital, free of charge, according to these "human rights rules", like the article claims? I have never heard of free hospital treatment here, not once! 

Where did it say free of charge? 

[Vacuum]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

Prayut got a meeting with his friend Donald who was teaching him about fake news...

...and paranoia.

[whitemouse]

30 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Paid my bill but no doubt was treated as a Thai. I am clearly not Thai but comport myself as a nice guy.

So you are one of the guys being treated by "humanitarian grounds" for lack of means of payment, that this article and new insurance Law talks about. Now rest of us have to get mandatory, yet useless health insurance, to cover Thai hospital losses due to all the "humanitarian work" they provide to broke foreigners?

I have never, not once heard of Thai hospital doing charity work. 

[brewsterbudgen]

If a UK national marries a Thai girl and then brings her back with him to live in the UK. Who pays any medical bills she will have? I think we all know the answer to that, and I bet the Thai authorities will not want to know.

She pays a NHS surcharge which entitles her to NHS treatment.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[WaveHunter]

51 minutes ago, Bruce404 said:

     WaveHunter, you are referring to an optional, supplemental policy that one purchases out-of-pocket "on top of Medicare".  It is not "Medicare coverage".

     And if you read the fine print in the third answer to the third question in the larger image you posted (not quoted above), it says your supplemental policy does not apply if you move outside the private (Florida) insurer's geographic coverage areas. 

     I doubt any of those areas include Thailand, although perhaps you are not informing your private insurer in Florida that you actually live long-term or lengthy periods in Thailand, and are not just taking short vacations outside the USA.

     Do you have any experience filing a claim for emergency care in Thailand with your private "BlueMedicare HMO" insurer in Florida?  If so, please tell us about it. 

     

     You might want to read the fine print and contact your supplemental insurer to learn its definition of "temporarily outside the plan service area":

"If you receive care from an out-of-network provider without prior authorization from our plan, the care will not be covered except for emergency care, urgently needed care and dialysis services you receive while temporarily outside the plan service area."

https://medicare.websales.floridablue.com/sbu/medadv-detail/bluemedicare-hmo-mytime-4?language_content_entity=en

 

First of all, those people from the USA who have Medicare and do not elect the supplemental coverage are foolish.  It costs nothing at all for two of the three optional plans, and in fact I believe that Medicare requires it be mandatory to have it (though I could be mistaken on that.). 

 

Suffice to say that most people who have Medicare also have supplemental coverage since it costs nothing at all to have.

 

Secondly, I discussed the international coverage with my agent before I moved to Thailand.  The agent was fully aware that I would be here as a long-stay.  In short, I was assured that such coverage as I described would be mine for the duration of my stay, however long that might be, as long as I maintained my coverage.

 

Again, I am not saying medicare is appropriate for day to day medical coverage here in Thailand.  It is not.  I have a separate "travelers insurance" policy for serious injury or illness that might not meet the threshold of "Emergency" Medicare.  For lesser needs, I simply pay out of pocket since most minor medical needs are inexpensive here

 

I merely said that Medicare provides a layer of protection for a serious life-threatening situation you might face in-country that my travelers insurance might not provide, and it gives me the option to return to the USA if that is more appropriate.  My travelers insurance also gives me that option to return to the USA should that be necessary and even provides transportation by private jet if required.

 

My original point in bringing this up is that Thai officials should take this into account in deciding whether or not an Expat must buy insurance in-country.

[smudger1951]

Clearly nobody would spit on me if I was on fire in LOS without full payment. I await this charge being imposed on all 30 day tourist entrants.

[Scot123]

8 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

First of all, those people from the USA who have Medicare and do not elect the supplemental coverage are foolish.  It costs nothing at all for two of the three optional plans, and in fact I believe that Medicare requires it be mandatory to have it (though I could be mistaken on that.). 

 

Suffice to say that most people who have Medicare also have supplemental coverage since it costs nothing at all to have.

 

Secondly, I discussed the international coverage with my agent before I moved to Thailand.  The agent was fully aware that I would be here as a long-stay.  In short, I was assured that such coverage as I described would be mine for the duration of my stay, however long that might be, as long as I maintained my coverage.

 

Again, I am not saying medicare is appropriate for day to day medical coverage here in Thailand.  It is not.  I have a separate "travelers insurance" policy for serious injury or illness that might not meet the threshold of "Emergency" Medicare.  For lesser needs, I simply pay out of pocket since most minor medical needs are inexpensive here

 

I merely said that Medicare provides a layer of protection for a serious life-threatening situation you might face in-country that my in-country coverage might not provide, and it gives me the option to return to the USA if that is more appropriate.

 

My original point in bringing this up is that Thai officials should take this into account in deciding whether or not an Expat must buy insurance in-country.

I thought this was about Thailand not the USA! 

[wwest5829]

16 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

So you are you one of the guys being treated by "humanitarian grounds" for lack of means of payment, and now rest of us have to get health insurance, to cover Thai hospital losses due to all the "humanitarian work" they provide to us, foreigners?

You overstep in your assumptions and you know what that makes the assumer. I have sufficient means to pay my medical bills and was not asked for anything else. So, I attribute this to the kindly care of the Lanna people treating me as one of their own. As to the "rest of us", that includes me having the threat hanging over my head. I paid for my $11K heart attack bill here but would be sent packing if required to have a "one size fits all" currently offered commercial insurance policy.

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

I thought this was about Thailand not the USA! 

It is about Thailand!  The discussion is about whether or not US-based Medcare will or will not cover emergency / urgent care needs of a Medicare-covered Expat while outside of USA (in Thailand).

[whitemouse]

2 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

You overstep in your assumptions and you know what that makes the assumer. I have sufficient means to pay my medical bills and was not asked for anything else. So, I attribute this to the kindly care of the Lanna people treating me as one of their own. As to the "rest of us", that includes me having the threat hanging over my head. I paid for my $11K heart attack bill here but would be sent packing if required to have a "one size fits all" currently offered commercial insurance policy.

I asked an open question - has anyone been treated no charge, like this article claims. I've never head of this "humanitarian treatment" by a Thai hospital.

Here is my post and your reply:

 

 

[CLS]

To enable a person from outside EU to have a long term Visa for UK...they have to first have a TB test...then if cleared a £2000 medical payment is required on Visa Application. This is to cover any medical expenses if required during stay in UK.
The thais are just putting in place what happens anywhere else in the world if you have long term Visa.
Why moan about this.
If you dont or cant afford the Insurance then why should the Thai Govt pay for your ills.
Simple really.

Yes, but then pre-conditions are covered and you are in the same insurance scheme as all residents.
Here you only pay and get nothing in return.
Overseas policies are a lot superior to Thai insurances, but don’t qualify.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Scot123]

3 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Hope your happy in your new place. 

Yes we all are very happy back home. I suffer a bit with my health, now love driving again, my hart rate is way down so is my stress level my wife never wanted us to leave the UK and is really happy being back, my children love their new school (I just found out my son was being bullied in Thailand) and lastly we are financially far better off. Aberdeen Angus steak mmmmmm plus I've started eating fish again. 

[a340bangla1]

7 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

I recently had a tour of Bumrungrad Hospital by a person involved in marketing the hospital for medical tourism. It's certainly big business there, mainly for middle easterners they say. They have a visa extension department in house, a large staff dedicated to processing paperwork in various languages, airport shuttles and plenty of other evidence of it being a major medical tourism destination. 

 

While I've had no such tour at Bangkok Hospital, I've seen enough of it to believe that it too is a major medical tourism destination. Bangkok Hospital Pattaya has an entire tower dedicated to cosmetic surgery. I'm sure there are plenty of foreigners making use of that facility.

Correct, the waiting rooms in the various clinics most of the time resemble a bazaar somewhere in the ME.

 

On the subject of insurance, whenever my wife went to Europe with me, she had to show proof of insurance.

 

And I have seen cases of people without insurance and funds spending the miserable end of their lifes in Thai hospitals (sometimes supported by local friends). So I am all for proof of insurance - or proof of sufficient funds for emergencies.

[Guderian]

Let's see now, according to Google, Thailand's GDP in 2017 was 452 billion USD. At 30 THB/USD that's around 13.5 trillion Baht. Tourism provides betwwen 10% and 20% of this, depending on who you ask and what definitions you use. So that implies tourism, including us long-stay tourists living here, is worth between 1.3 and 2.6 trillion Baht to the economy. And apparently they're willing to risk damaging that industry for the sake of 500 million Baht - just 0.02% to 0.04% of the income it brings the country.  

 

A kind person might say something about confused priorities, and having your cake and eating it too. Personally, I think the entire government consists of nothing but miserly, feeble-minded racist bigots.

[WaveHunter]

15 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

You overstep in your assumptions and you know what that makes the assumer. I have sufficient means to pay my medical bills and was not asked for anything else. So, I attribute this to the kindly care of the Lanna people treating me as one of their own. As to the "rest of us", that includes me having the threat hanging over my head. I paid for my $11K heart attack bill here but would be sent packing if required to have a "one size fits all" currently offered commercial insurance policy.

I'm often impressed by the generous and compassionate care provided by the Thai medical establishment. 

 

Every Time I've gone to the hospital either in Chiang Mai or here in Pattaya for some minor issue, I've always been seen very quickly by a knowledgeable and caring physician who patiently listened to me and is a good communicator. 

 

I'm always surprised by the low cost of a consultation (usually around 300-500 baht).  Of course their in-house pharmacy...well, that's a little different story; usually very expensive.

 

On the whole, Thai hospitals seem to take care of us Farangs pretty nicely, and at very little expense.

[whitemouse]

7 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

You overstep in your assumptions and you know what that makes the assumer. I have sufficient means to pay my m have sufficient means to pay my medical bills and was not asked for anything else.

 

Thank you, the answer is no. You were not treated on some humanitarian grounds, because it doesn't exist here, all foreigners must pay, non payments are prosecuted. 

It is absolute BS that Thai hospitals provide free treatments to broke foreigners.

The only loss of revenue for a hospital is when patient dies in the hospital, and even then the loss is not total cost of treatment, patients are billed on ongoing basis, and payments processed by hospitals. 

 

[WaveHunter]

22 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

I too have supplemental insurance that adds to Medicare. It covers urgent and emergency care world wide. Most care is very affordable in Thailand and I can easily pay (out of pocket). If I had a chronic condition, I could always use the option to go back to the US for treatment. I would probably stay in Thailand because the quality of health care is very good. The facilities at government hospital aren't always great (but improving in my area) but care is always good. 

I worked at three highly rated (JCAHO approved) hospitals in the US and know that no place is perfect. However my local hospital rates pretty high with me and they readily refer more complicated case to higher level facilities. 

I could buy health insurance in Thailand, but would view it as nothing but an added visa extension expense. 

I have suspicion when WebFact is involve though.

Totally agree that the medical establishment in Thailand seems superior to that of the USA in certain ways.  At least that's been my experience for minor issues.  Very quick to see a doctor when you just walk in a hospital.  Every time, I've been treated cordially and with respect.  And every time, the doctor patiently listens to me instead of rushing me, and then is a great communicator of good, practical advice / treatment.  

 

I've never been in-hospital for something serious but would probably feel pretty confident about the care I'd receive.
 

[WaveHunter]

22 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

It is. If you US insurance covers you here why do you need another policy, except to make profit for Thai insurance companies. BTW Thai insurance companies are big advertisers on this forum. 

Check out the header and click on Thai Health Insurance Project.

I think it's a good idea to have a "travelers" insurance policy in addition to relying on home-country coverage for emergency/urgent care (via Medicare Supplemental). 

 

While most medical costs here in Thailand for non-emergency procedures are relatively inexpensive (compared with one's home country) and can easily be handled by an ExPat out-of-pocket, it can still get costly for something like a road accident involving broken bones, the need of a MRI, or a non-emergency injury requiring a multiple day hospital stay.

 

However, this new regulation seems to be more about representing the financial interests of Thai-based insurance companies, and not so much about protecting the State against ExPats who will not / can not pay their medical bills.  Just my personal opinion, of course.

[emptypockets]

6 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

That isn't exactly true is it.  Under Trump's measure, which goes into effect Nov. 3, immigrants would need to get health insurance within 30 days of entering the U.S. or would need to show they have enough money to cover medical costs.   

 

This is what Thai immigration should do, not force expats to purchase worthless and expensive Thai health insurance.  While we are on the subject of how Thai immigrants are treated in the U.S., there is no 90 day reporting, no TM forms, and they are not required to file for a visa extension every year.

 

Trump is making America Great Again, unlike what is taking place over here.   

When this issue was first brought to public attention on this forum the spokesman did mention a money in the bank option. That was a few months ago.

[Scot123]

3 minutes ago, CLS said:

 

Yes, but then pre-conditions are covered and you are in the same insurance scheme as all residents.
Here you only pay and get nothing in return.
Overseas policies are a lot superior to Thai insurances, but don’t qualify.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Why are you lying about the UK medical costs on visa application? It is only £200 a year paying 5 years in advance. If you were to leave or change your visa the remittance is returned. I totally agree with this and it is not subject to age or health condition its one for all. I have just paid it so I should know. Why make that statement? Plus you show your income requirement as an annual amount once, you do not have to report to a police station every 90 days like a criminal on patrol, you do not have 6 police cars turn up to check on you, you do not have to apply every year showing all your personal documents, stupid photos of you sitting on your bed with your spouse and children, personal details and you do not have to report every time you go on holiday or visit friends over night. Please do not try and justify how expats are treated in Thailand compared to how Thai expats are treated in the UK who actually have the same rights as a Brit including buying a house having same banking like getting a loan mortgage etc.... OMG. EXPATS in Thailand put up with a lot for the life they want in Thailand and that is also a fact. What happens is it slowly wares a lot of people down till they just up and leave. This could well be the final push for many and a deterrent for those thinking about retirement in Thailand. I know we would never have considered moving to Thailand if that had been a requirement. 

[Russell17au]

A lot of people are still confusing the visa that this is linked to. The only visa that is affected by this is the O-A visa, the new applications and the renewals because the O-A visa is only valid for 1 year and then must be renewed. There are many on here that are jumping up and down about this, but they are married to a Thai national so why don't they change to a Non-Imm "O" visa for 90 days and then do an extension based on marriage, which the financials are 400,000 baht in the bank for 2 months then can be used or 40,000 baht income transfer from overseas into a Thai bank. As for the retirees why not change to a Non-Imm "O" visa and then do your extension based on retirement where you will be required to show the financials are here in a Thai bank account instead of an offshore bank account. As for the hospitals, I have visited 3 Thai government hospitals and non of them ever asked for my passport or a deposit before I was treated. Once was for a broken arm for which I visited outpatients 3 times and could have just walked out without paying if I wanted to and another was an inpatient with a heart complaint for which I spent 6 days in hospital and I was allowed to walk to the office un-escorted so I could have just kept going without paying. I did pay my bills at all the hospitals but it does show how easy it can be for f anyone to just walk out and not pay their bills, that also includes Thais. 

I took my first Thai wife to Aust on a tourist visa while we were waiting for her residents visa and I had to guarantee all her medical expenses whilst we were there, and they checked that I could afford it if needed.

[emptypockets]

When this issue was first brought to public attention on this forum the spokesman did mention a money in the bank option. That was a few months ago.

 

People seemed to have forgotten that the targeted group, The OA visa holders are not required to keep any money in a Thai bank whereas everyone else has to.

You'd have to be blind not to see the 400k baht matches exactly what a married person is required to have when applying for an extension.

 

Yet again another thread has deteriorated into the Thais hate me, nighty shredding shreikfest by the people who are not remotely affected by it.

Must be Thursday.

[zenobit]

"…The new rules will be applied to those who enter the country for the first time AND THOSE WHO WISH TO EXTEND THEIR VISAS…" Sathit said.
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/10/10/health-insurance-will-be-mandatory-for-retiree-visa-holders/

Interesting ... I had understood it so far that the new rules will ONLY be applied to those who enter the country for the first time. I guess I was wrong. ????

[Teee]

49 minutes ago, CLS said:

 

Yes, but then pre-conditions are covered and you are in the same insurance scheme as all residents.
Here you only pay and get nothing in return.
Overseas policies are a lot superior to Thai insurances, but don’t qualify.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

If you have paid for a Policy from your home country and have pre-conditions covered...then your policy must have cost a fortune. If cheap then check out how much you would get.

With the Baht now so high against all currencies and prob will be kept high for a long time...Medical expenses will be so much higher...hence if your covered for say £500000 or a Mill £€$ then i bet your medical expenses will be alot higher than that if say you had heart attack or anything you have to stay in Hospital for.

[Scot123]

28 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

I asked an open question - has anyone been treated no charge, like this article claims. I've never head of this "humanitarian treatment" by a Thai hospital.

Here is my post and your reply:

 

 

You paid Thai rates at a government hospital. We tried private and found them verging on incompetent and always referred to the local government hospital (the wife's sister who is a dental surgeon) told me government doctors are the best and most private doctor are part time government doctors it was the wife who pushed us private after an incompetent private hospital doctor scared her and admitted her into hospital when pregnant then after 30 hours said we had to go to the government hospital and a big bill including oxygen administered by a porter going up one stop in the lift scared the sh~t out of me. To be told in perfect English by the doctor at the government hospital (oh and he had me with my wife while she was being scanned this never happened once at the private hospital) nothing was wrong. 

[Samuel Smith]

8 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

 

 

Yet again another thread has deteriorated into the Thais hate me, nighty shredding shreikfest by the people who are not remotely affected by it.

Must be Thursday.

But, it's entertaining reading the replies ????

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, zenobit said:

"…The new rules will be applied to those who enter the country for the first time AND THOSE WHO WISH TO EXTEND THEIR VISAS…" Sathit said.
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/10/10/health-insurance-will-be-mandatory-for-retiree-visa-holders/

Interesting ... I had understood it so far that the new rules will ONLY be applied to those who enter the country for the first time. I guess I was wrong. ????

It is for all new O-A applications plus all renewals for A-O visa. It has nothing to do with Non-Imm O visas at all. Check the current police order which was shown in the thread about this yesterday when it was released.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

She pays a NHS surcharge which entitles her to NHS treatment.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

I am not going to say you are wrong, but I knew someone with a Thai wife who got any medical treatment free, but it could be the case that things have changed in recent years.