Thai Buddhist Wedding Ceromony

[twix38]

I have been with my Thai GF for about 4 years and it is time to honour our relationship and her family and to pay the dowry and have the Thai wedding ceromony. We are engaged already.

We do love each other and I am happy to do this, having made perfectly clear that I am NOT ready to legally get married or put my assets on the line at all right now as about a year ago on her visit to England, on a Fiance visa, she decided that she wanted to stop our relationship and just be friends and be independent and return to Thailand. We got through this period, but I put all thoughts of legally getting married on the backburner after this surprise and I am still not ready to commit to anything legal, although I have siad that so long as the Thai ceromony is just a culteral commitment for family etc and me paying some money, then I don't mind.

It may be difficult to understand, but we are happy, I have no thoughts of marriage right now, but there is family pressure on her to honour our engagement after nearly 2 years and I have no problem in doing that, so long as we are NOT actually married in a legal sense.

So, can anyone give me an idea of what the Thai ceromony means in legal terms? Would I have to sign anything at all? what happens? Are there any dangers (I do not speak Thai, so would not have a clue what was being said)what is expected of me and fundametally it's legal status (i.e. after this ceromony, I want to still be legally single and my Thai GF says she is fine about this)?

Thanks

[dominique355]

As fas as I know, this ceremony has no legal consequence but it has a huge social consequence. Your wife and yourself will be accepted by your wife's family as being husband and wife. Before that you are only boyfriend and girlfriend. The family expects of course that you honor the traditions, such as paying the dowry, helping them when asked, and you can also expect them to accept you as a member of the family.

I believe many Thai are "only" married this way

[jumnien]

All relationships, especially those consummated under a Buddhist wedding ceremony, operate under the universal dhammic karmic law of cause and effect. There will be definite consequences here which a mere mortal such as I could not elaborate on. In any case, you will soon know what the consequences will be. That much is assured.

[sceadugenga]

Isn't dowry what the wife brings to the husband?

Or are we talking about sin sot?

[thaihome]

No legal paper involved at all. Very common to postpone the legalization, just as common to postpone the ceremony.

Pretty convenient system either way, I think.

TH

Edited March 25, 2007 by thaihome

[twix38]

Thanks guys,

I understand the following

1. No legal commitment

2. There will be definite consequences, of which I don't have a clue. Would anyone care to eloborate?

3. Anything else which can be spelt out in Black and White for me?

4. If I go ahead, what's changed for me. I see this as giving a dowry and othing else changing in real or consequential terms. Where am I wrong or is this correct?

Many thanks

[solent01]

No problem twix after you are still legally single, no problem, scead yes he means sin sod

[soundman]

I have been with my Thai GF for about 4 years and it is time to honour our relationship and her family and to pay the dowry and have the Thai wedding ceromony. We are engaged already.

We do love each other and I am happy to do this, having made perfectly clear that I am NOT ready to legally get married or put my assets on the line at all right now as about a year ago on her visit to England, on a Fiance visa, she decided that she wanted to stop our relationship and just be friends and be independent and return to Thailand. We got through this period, but I put all thoughts of legally getting married on the backburner after this surprise and I am still not ready to commit to anything legal, although I have siad that so long as the Thai ceromony is just a culteral commitment for family etc and me paying some money, then I don't mind.

It may be difficult to understand, but we are happy, I have no thoughts of marriage right now, but there is family pressure on her to honour our engagement after nearly 2 years and I have no problem in doing that, so long as we are NOT actually married in a legal sense.

So, can anyone give me an idea of what the Thai ceromony means in legal terms? Would I have to sign anything at all? what happens? Are there any dangers (I do not speak Thai, so would not have a clue what was being said)what is expected of me and fundametally it's legal status (i.e. after this ceromony, I want to still be legally single and my Thai GF says she is fine about this)?

Thanks

You may have any ceremony you want, however....

You are not legally married until you go to the local "amphur" and have a marriage certificate signed by both parties. (probably witnessed as well)

Cheers,

Soundman.

[phibunmike]

Thanks guys,

I understand the following

1. No legal commitment

2. There will be definite consequences, of which I don't have a clue. Would anyone care to eloborate?

3. Anything else which can be spelt out in Black and White for me?

4. If I go ahead, what's changed for me. I see this as giving a dowry and othing else changing in real or consequential terms. Where am I wrong or is this correct?

Many thanks

Whilst the traditional ceremony has no legal status, it has absolute cultural status - the "legal" part is considered optional and of no significance. If you consider the traditional ceremony as some sort of half-way step, then you and your *wife*, and all others in the family and community, will be on completely different pages, so to speak.

If you go ahead, all in her family and the community will consider you and her to be husband and wife, full stop. If, at some later date you leave her, then you will have abandoned your wife. (But with no legal repercussions).

Perhaps you would be happier with the mun or engagement ceremony to begin with, if you are not ready for marriage. That would go a long way to appease the family (and the ancestors).

Good luck,

Mike

[twix38]

We are already engaged and had ceromony, so I assume that was mun. However there is still perfectly reasonable pressure for the wedding ceromony, as there would be anywhere when the couple are engaged.

I couldn't personally care less about a Thai Ceromony and I am not ready for legal marriage. I am willing to pay the dowry and go ahead with a Thai ceromony which would seem to keep everyone happy as I do want to stay with my GF and get legally married one day, but just not in the near future.

Anyway, there must be a difference between the Mun (engagement) and wedding ceromony or else there would not be any pressure, so the Mun or engagement is not sufficient.

Like I say, I am happy to accept what I understand to be the responsibilities of a Thai wedding ceromony and support my GF and be part of a family - But not new or additional finance for the extended family too though. If things stay as good as the last 4 years generally, then we are fine and if not, I have no legal commitments. Only moral ones.

My reluctance to marry legally is inspired by her previous and temporary cold feet and what if it should happen again although I feel we are very strong and it was just the shock of cold Engalnd and feeling homesick etc before.

I am not looking to take on extra responsibilities right now simply because we have a Thai wedding ceromony, which I would be doing because we have a relationship that is worthy, and for her and her family. Would I be taking on more and if so what might that be? I do it for her and give a dowry, not to get additional financial or any other sundry requests/demands.

Edited March 25, 2007 by twix38

[Richard W]

I am not looking to take on extra responsibilities right now simply because we have a Thai wedding ceromony, which I would be doing because we have a relationship that is worthy, and for her and her family. Would I be taking on more and if so what might that be? I do it for her and give a dowry, not to get additional financial or any other sundry requests/demands.

I've heard of Thai marriages not being registered so as to protect the wife's property from the husband.

The message coming over is quite simple. Ceremony without registration differs from ceremony plus registration only with regard to state intervention.

An aside - do the Chrisitian churches recognise these marriages?

[twix38]

"The message coming over is quite simple. Ceremony without registration differs from ceremony plus registration only with regard to state intervention."

Registration being signing a marriage certificate at an Amphur??

With a Thai ceromony and without a marriage certificate (registration) and hence as you say "no state intervention' which means no legal marriage or possibility of any future claim on assets in legal or state terms, I assume?

A ceromony WITHOUT registration differs from no ceromony at all in what real and practical sense other than the meaning of the event itself in Thai culture and sincerity of all parties? How would my life be different from today, after Thai wedding ceromony or need it not be?

Edited March 25, 2007 by twix38

[duratanium]

Do you not have to prove you are single / divorced for this religious ceremony?

If so, what means of proof would you need to show and who to?

[jumnien]

Do you not have to prove you are single / divorced for this religious ceremony?

If so, what means of proof would you need to show and who to?

No proof necessary. In fact, you can have as many buddhist wedding ceremonies as you like. I've been to several where a Thai guy is marrying one of his mia nois, usually where a pregnancy has somehow occured. I've even had the mia luang's come by our house later in the day with the "newlywed couple" present as well. Thailand is a wonderful country.

[November Rain]

Do you not have to prove you are single / divorced for this religious ceremony?

If so, what means of proof would you need to show and who to?

No proof necessary. In fact, you can have as many buddhist wedding ceremonies as you like. I've been to several where a Thai guy is marrying one of his mia nois, usually where a pregnancy has somehow occured. I've even had the mia luang's come by our house later in the day with the "newlywed couple" present as well. Thailand is a wonderful country.

Is this true? Does the ceremony change anything as far as how the Thais see your relationship?

Reason I ask is: was in relationship with Thai man for over 3 years. He & his son lived with me. He wanted to marry me, but I am still married legally (seperated) to an English guy who I haven't even set eyes on for over 5 years, but who won't divorce me. Thai BF died a year ago, & I'm taking care of his son, but I can't legally adopt him &, should I be forced to leave Thailand, can't take him with me. I know it's too late now, but could I have married BF in this way, and would it have helped me with his son?

[jumnien]

Don't know NR. On a curious note, at Palm Hills Golf Club here, a buddy has been "married" for 17 years to his Thai "wife". He is a member but she has to pay as a guest when they play golf because they don't have a registered marriage from the Amphur. I would imagine adoption and child custody rights are more based on registered marriages but I'd be interested in others experiences.

[pokoal2000]

It’s very simple,- marriage ceremony without going to Ampur and registering the marriage is proper marriage in Thai eyes, OK for the family and the neighbors. In any legal matter your partner will not be considered as your wife, you can’t inherit or have no legal right to any of her possession. Same applies to you. As to the custody of the children- you have no chance without your marriage being registered in the local Ampur.If you register your marriage , then having the certificate officially translated into English, your marriage is accepted in UK.

[duratanium]

No proof necessary. In fact, you can have as many buddhist wedding ceremonies as you like. I've been to several where a Thai guy is marrying one of his mia nois, usually where a pregnancy has somehow occured. I've even had the mia luang's come by our house later in the day with the "newlywed couple" present as well. Thailand is a wonderful country.

Ahhh, sounds like a miraculous conception! That made me smile

But I can see the advantages of having a marriage where there is no legally binding papers involved.

With the mother, sister and brother in law on one side and a brother on the other side and my g/f under a LOT of pressure to be married to the Farang who lives with her in her house, it could settle things down a great deal. Life for the g/f would be so much easier and more relaxed at times.

Could also save a lot of earache too

Though I already feel accepted by the family - momma brings me fruit and food, looks in on me from time to time and gives me a full Thai massage when my back is in bad pain. The family happily work on the house for a few beers and we will sit listening to music, drinking beer and 'talking'.

All in all it sounds a lot more palatable than having my UK property under threat, especially as I have had it for 20 years and have a lot of equity now.

It would make 'momma' and the family happier and is something I will seriously consider ( the doomsayers who regularly attack us farangs over marriage please note that some of us are happy with our g/f's b/f's).

As for NR and the adoption .... wish I could help there. Sounds like a difficult one.

Can you not get a divorce automatically after so long apart? 2 years separation in the UK for example and you can get divorced quite easily. Hope also NR that you can find a solution as it sounds like you are happy with the child.

[twix38]

Does anyone have more in the way of information or links to what the Thai ceromony entails, how long it all lasts and what is expected of me?

[h90]

I have been with my Thai GF for about 4 years and it is time to honour our relationship and her family and to pay the dowry and have the Thai wedding ceromony. We are engaged already.

We do love each other and I am happy to do this, having made perfectly clear that I am NOT ready to legally get married or put my assets on the line at all right now as about a year ago on her visit to England, on a Fiance visa, she decided that she wanted to stop our relationship and just be friends and be independent and return to Thailand. We got through this period, but I put all thoughts of legally getting married on the backburner after this surprise and I am still not ready to commit to anything legal, although I have siad that so long as the Thai ceromony is just a culteral commitment for family etc and me paying some money, then I don't mind.

It may be difficult to understand, but we are happy, I have no thoughts of marriage right now, but there is family pressure on her to honour our engagement after nearly 2 years and I have no problem in doing that, so long as we are NOT actually married in a legal sense.

So, can anyone give me an idea of what the Thai ceromony means in legal terms? Would I have to sign anything at all? what happens? Are there any dangers (I do not speak Thai, so would not have a clue what was being said)what is expected of me and fundametally it's legal status (i.e. after this ceromony, I want to still be legally single and my Thai GF says she is fine about this)?

Thanks

If you pay a dowry you are a stupid.....

Such things do not exist anymore in modern thailand. My wife don't know anyone who paid that.

very very outside there are remainings like you pay it and on the next day the parents give you as present exactly the same amount AND a piece of land. Very very old times and very very outside the parents bought gold for it which the wife owns in case she gets in troubles.

But payment for the parents exits for farangs only...

[Crossy]

If you pay a dowry you are a stupid.....

Such things do not exist anymore in modern thailand. My wife don't know anyone who paid that.

very very outside there are remainings like you pay it and on the next day the parents give you as present exactly the same amount AND a piece of land. Very very old times and very very outside the parents bought gold for it which the wife owns in case she gets in troubles.

But payment for the parents exits for farangs only...

Hmmm, obviously we don't operate in the same circles.

Went to a Thai wedding in December (Chonburi area, Thai-Thai, no farang involved), a not-insignificant sinsod was paid, cash and gold. According to the Missus the girl keeps the gold, her mum keeps the cash.

[OlRedEyes]

My wife is a conservative Thai. We are not legally married, for technical reasons. Been together for 3 years. Haven't had a traditional ceremony yet. The other day i suggested it as I thought, reading all these posts about how all this is so ingrained in Thai culture, that it would make her and her family happier. She wasn't interested. Said it's bullsh*t. (yea, really)

Her family is middle class. They are an old Samui family, she is shown respect (we both are) wherever she goes on Samui, having been a teacher here, and grown up here, she is well known on the island. Her family and friends all accept me as her husband.

I have never given them money.

I sometimes wonder about all this agonising about Thai culture and sinsod. Go to any country outside of US and Europe and you'll hear a lot about 'culture', but it's mostly the old that talk about it.

Edited March 28, 2007 by OlRedEyes

[old wanderer]

Does anyone have more in the way of information or links to what the Thai ceromony entails, how long it all lasts and what is expected of me?

I had been married for 7 years to my Thai wife in the USA, but every time we returned to Issan, we both kept being asked by a lot of people in the village, "When are you getting married?" I printed large pictures of our wedding in the USA and had them framed and given to her mother and father,,,,,did not change a thing. "When are you going to get married/".

Well after 7 years of prodding, me re-adjusting my thinking a bit, I jumped in whole hog. Bought a Jo-ko-ban, hired a marching band, had 9 chanting monks, and enought beer and whiskey to keep 200 people drunk for 3 days, plus a bunch of pigs, chickens, somthom, .....If you are going to have a wedding party then have one that will not be forgotten soon. Had a pile of speakers 8 feet high and blasted Moo Lum music 10 miles away. Got to say I had a great time, drank moonshine with the lao people, learned to speak some Suay and Khmer, danced with every lady I could find, and met and recieved the respect of a lot of relitives that I would have never known. The best thing it brought a tremendous amout of respect for my wife and her family. Yes I paid the sinsod (mid 6 figures plus 18 baht gold), yes I paid for the whole party/wedding, and am well satisfied. I even had the family home rebuilt last year, but insisted that it be done to western standards, and hired outside contractors to come to the village and do the work. Now "MY" family home is a show place that people come to look at in this little village. It is know as "The Falang House even though It is the home of my mother-in-law. (My father -in-law died 2 months after the wedding.)

I really believe that the reason the vast majority of farang/thai relationships go bad is because we never intergrate outselves, but always expect the TG to do all the intergration. I do speak with some experience as I had gone through 4 other wives in the USA before finding a keeper. Happy relationships are based on finding a comfortable middle ground.

We are currently building a new home at a resort in the mountains, and when it is finnished I will charter a bus to bring as many village people to our house blessing party as want to come. I consider it obligagtion to my family, and a chance to show them a different side of life. Besides it a good reason to have another big party, watch the Thai's turn green trying to smoke my cigars, hire a moo-lum band, dance and just have a good time....As this is a bit of an upscale resort, I sure some of my neighbors will join in, others will feel it is beneith them?? We shall see.

We never went to the Ampur to do the paperwork, but all is well in the village.

Edited March 29, 2007 by old wanderer

[Johpa]

We are already engaged and had ceromony, so I assume that was mun. However there is still perfectly reasonable pressure for the wedding ceromony, as there would be anywhere when the couple are engaged.

I couldn't personally care less about a Thai Ceromony and I am not ready for legal marriage. I am willing to pay the dowry and go ahead with a Thai ceromony which would seem to keep everyone happy as I do want to stay with my GF and get legally married one day, but just not in the near future.

Anyway, there must be a difference between the Mun (engagement) and wedding ceromony or else there would not be any pressure, so the Mun or engagement is not sufficient.

Like I say, I am happy to accept what I understand to be the responsibilities of a Thai wedding ceromony and support my GF and be part of a family - But not new or additional finance for the extended family too though. If things stay as good as the last 4 years generally, then we are fine and if not, I have no legal commitments. Only moral ones.

My reluctance to marry legally is inspired by her previous and temporary cold feet and what if it should happen again although I feel we are very strong and it was just the shock of cold Engalnd and feeling homesick etc before.

I am not looking to take on extra responsibilities right now simply because we have a Thai wedding ceromony, which I would be doing because we have a relationship that is worthy, and for her and her family. Would I be taking on more and if so what might that be? I do it for her and give a dowry, not to get additional financial or any other sundry requests/demands.

Stop, take a deep breath, look in the mirror, and admit to yourself you are not ready to be married. Give the woman enough money as a parting gift to save face on her part, and then leave before you get deeper in the doggy doo doo cuz you clearly have no clue about this life you have built for yourself in Thailand.

[Flysiam]

If you pay a dowry you are a stupid.....

Such things do not exist anymore in modern thailand. My wife don't know anyone who paid that.

very very outside there are remainings like you pay it and on the next day the parents give you as present exactly the same amount AND a piece of land. Very very old times and very very outside the parents bought gold for it which the wife owns in case she gets in troubles.

But payment for the parents exits for farangs only...

I don'tagree... you, my friend, are waayy out there..

This poster brings to mind a thought - that it is better to not say a thing and be thought a fool; than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

Such things do exist in modern Thailand and it is not just for farangs.

Beyond that... "very very outside there are remainings"? Does that mean the dog dropped a doody in the yard?

Edited March 29, 2007 by Flysiam

[bendix]

He wanted to marry me, but I am still married legally (seperated) to an English guy who I haven't even set eyes on for over 5 years, but who won't divorce me.

It's a moot point now, but why do you need your husband's permission to get a divorce. You've been seperated for three years. You can simply file for a divorce, without his consent. He would have no say in the matter and you would have been free to marry the Thai guy.

[meadish_sweetball]

If you pay a dowry you are a stupid.....

Such things do not exist anymore in modern thailand. My wife don't know anyone who paid that.

very very outside there are remainings like you pay it and on the next day the parents give you as present exactly the same amount AND a piece of land. Very very old times and very very outside the parents bought gold for it which the wife owns in case she gets in troubles.

But payment for the parents exits for farangs only...

Like Crossy says, that is not always true, sorry. I have been to a fair number of Thai-Thai weddings, and sin sod was produced in all of them.

It is true many people make an arrangement to return the sin sod to the couple afterwards, but it does not always happen.

Thai men can spend ridiculously large amounts of money on wooing girls. A friend of my wife's, who is Thai with a Thai suitor, has been given presents worth 100 000 baht so far. He also paid for her entire family (6 people) to fly on a holiday down to Koh Samui.

Her cousin was wooed by another guy. He gave her two pedigree dogs of the yappy, fluffy kind, worth 20 000 baht each, and a new Nokia worth 15 000.

In both cases, engagement was not even up for discussion yet.