Legallity of visa agents

[mlkik]

With the new requirements for keeping a minimum of 400000 baht in the Thai bank account all year round ,many of us thought it would be the end of agents.

However it seems to have affected the agents in such a way that they are now doing more business as more people prefer to use them than keep the money in a Thai bank.

[jacko45k]

24 minutes ago, mlkik said:

With the new requirements for keeping a minimum of 400000 baht in the Thai bank account all year round ,many of us thought it would be the end of agents.

However it seems to have affected the agents in such a way that they are now doing more business as more people prefer to use them than keep the money in a Thai bank.

No, I felt it was designed to push people towards using agents.

What other reason?

[moontang]

35 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

No, I felt it was designed to push people towards using agents.

What other reason?

The rules were designed to make it much more difficult for a quick deposit, and a withdrawal right after the stamp... but it just created the need for more "services." 

Edited October 18, 2019 by moontang

[ThomasThBKK]

6 hours ago, balo said:

Listen , there are more than 10 000 retired expats right now only using agents and who do not have the 800k in the bank, and been doing so for many years, you would be surprised how many. But you need to stay in the Pattaya / Bangkok region.   
The stamps are legal because they are official!y stamped by an IO. 

If the agent will get in trouble later , that's not your problem. 
 

 

That's not how law works ????

 

If an IO did something in breach with law, like accepting money, your stamps are entirely useless and void.

 

You guys are so naiveeeee... it's unbelieveable, one would think after many years in thailand you guys would wake up but nope, after 10 years still as naive as on day one.

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

No, I felt it was designed to push people towards using agents.

What other reason?

 

Why would the thai gov give a hoot about agents and rogue IOs? You know exactly who runs this country, why would they care? Like really what makes u guys believe these absurdities?

 

If you meant Thai Elite as an agent, the sole agent of thailand, then yes maybe.

The government want to kill off these methods and force everyone to buy the elite visa, otherwise they have zero interest in agents and rogue IOs earning money, all they want is to earn money themselves.

Edited October 18, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[Olmate]

1 minute ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

That's not how law works ????

 

If an IO did something in breach with law, like accepting money, your stamps are entirely useless and void.

 

You guys are so naiveeeee... it's unbelieveable, one would think after many years in thailand you guys would wake up but nope, after 10 years still as naive as on day one.

Who,s naive? You can show us an example I,m sure, of a void stamp issued by a IO using the agent assisted process.The point being it’s not in breach at all . 

[moontang]

The folks that got "favors" from the various land offices were left holding the bag.  Look at the Madoff investors, who actually made good money.. It was clawed back.  Usually referred to as ill gotten gains. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by moontang

[NanLaew]

16 hours ago, The Cobra said:

I have heard this before and I dont agree at all.

 

If the services were illegal they would not be allowed to operate and certainly not allowed to advertise the service.

 

The stamp/visa is issued by the legal authority, by a lawful officer entitled to issue such a visa/stamp. The actions of the agent are NOT illegal, the actions of the issuing officer could be described as questionable in some circumstances but the agent is not doing anything illegal. 

 

If at some stage the actions of the immigration officer concerned was brought into question/doubt that is another issue and nothing at all to do with the agent.

 

Through not actually having funds that are legally required, the foreign applicant will be charged with visa fraud, jailed, fined and deported. They are the ones that are soliciting any perceived crime or illegality here.

 

The Thai agent and immigration officers facilitating this fraud won't be affected.

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

My agent took me to the IO, my 4th retirement extension,  took the money off me  25 k  passed a portion to the IO behind the desk who noted my photo needed replacing, after i got the new pic i handed it, my pp, and bank book to same IO and the day after, got my docs teturned with stamped extension and my multi entri.

How about showing immigration that the funds went untouched and are still in the Thai bank account 90-days after the approval?

 

How about the requirement for the money in the Thai bank account not to drop below 400 k during the ensuing year?

 

Or is that 25 k you paid 'all-inclusive'?

 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

The rules were designed to make it much more difficult for a quick deposit, and a withdrawal right after the stamp... but it just created the need for more "services." 

Have Immigration ever officially given that as the reason for the change in rules? I know that it is often given as the reason, and does seem logical, but if they really wanted to shutdown the agents, it would be much simpler to root-out the officials within their own department who are cooperating with the agents, which I'm sure they could very easily do. And if they don't really want to shut down the agents, why make the change at all?

 

I guess one reason could be that there was pressure from on-high to be seen to be doing something, so that is what they came up with.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Exploring Thailand

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Have Immigration ever officially given that as the reason for the change in rules? I know that it is often given as the reason, and does seem logical, but if they really wanted to shutdown the agents, it would be much simpler to root-out the officials within their own department who are cooperating with the agents, which I'm sure they could very easily do. And if they don't really want to shut down the agents, why make the change at all?

 

I guess one reason could be that there was pressure from on-high to be seen to be doing something, so that is what they came up with.

They have thinned the ranks of poor expats, a little.  I looked at the origins of "holding the bag." 18th century England, but is precisely how things work here.  https://www.google.com/search?q=phrase+holding+the+bag&oq=phrase+holding&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.7193j1j7&client=ms-android-huawei&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Have Immigration ever officially given that as the reason for the change in rules? I know that it is often given as the reason, and does seem logical, but if they really wanted to shutdown the agents, it would be much simpler to root-out the officials within their own department who are cooperating with the agents,

It's always the local head of immigration handling the agents, and they pass money up to the bosses in Bangkok.

Can't see the bosses sacking themselves.

 

This idea some posters have in their minds of minions with fake stamps is laughable.

Seems like you've never bought yourselves an extension.

Edited October 18, 2019 by BritManToo

[from the home of CC]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

"briber - bribee", what a load of crock. It's a service with a set and advertised fee, no one is bribing anyone. Do people wake up and forget they are in Thailand? "legal", "illegal"... best to save those words for your home country where they MAY have some meaning. Some expats are fearful of consequences when following a well established system? I would not be having any sleepless nights over this. If this would keep you up at night, deposit 800k and be done with it. It's your choice.

 

 

Yes I feel some would have trepidation using this "well established system" - yea, so's the cosa nostra - lol  you can't be serious! Agents used to prepare paperwork and submit applications is one thing, common in every country. But to pay someone to falsely represent that you're meeting the visa obligations regarding funds in a Thai bank is a fraudulent act. You fools that think this country is here for you to cheat and exploit will one day wake up and be very unpleasantly surprised, it's just a matter of time. 

[ThaiBunny]

4 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

You fools that think this country is here for you to cheat and exploit will one day wake up and be very unpleasantly surprised, it's just a matter of time. 

Any timescale you'd care to nominate?

[VocalNeal]

19 hours ago, The Cobra said:

I have know of instances where the person actually accompanies the agent into the Thai immigration office to have their photo taken etc and received the visa stamp in front of the issuing officer ! there isno way that can be deemed illegal, it is not the responsibility of the recipient to question or not the validity of the stamp/visa issued by the lawful authority.

That's what i always used to do and will do again when i apply for an extension.

[from the home of CC]

3 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Any timescale you'd care to nominate?

about the time they've almost ran the majority of the scammers out, or the optics would be poor, what it will certainly do is seal the future..

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, moontang said:

The rules were designed to make it much more difficult for a quick deposit, and a withdrawal right after the stamp... but it just created the need for more "services." 

Well that continues exactly as before! If anything, things got easier and facilitation got cheaper! And the old requirement of 3 months pre-seasoning should have taken care of that just as well! It could only have stopped a group of guys moving the same 800k around between them every 3 months. Forcing them to go to an agent! (Or get a 3 month loan!)

Had they wanted to stop this corner cutting, there were certainly more direct methods, now it just got more prevalent and blatant.... they would like that!

Edited October 18, 2019 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Why would the thai gov give a hoot about agents and rogue IOs? You know exactly who runs this country, why would they care? Like really what makes u guys believe these absurdities?

 

If you meant Thai Elite as an agent, the sole agent of thailand, then yes maybe.

The government want to kill off these methods and force everyone to buy the elite visa, otherwise they have zero interest in agents and rogue IOs earning money, all they want is to earn money themselves.

Don't agree.... that is an absurdity. 

 

[yodsak]

 Notice the blatant ad ?     No funds needed ฿17,000. inclusive.

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by yodsak

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

You fools that think this country is here for you to cheat and exploit will one day wake up and be very unpleasantly surprised, it's just a matter of time. 

You got things backwards,

It's the Thais that think we are here for them to cheat and exploit.

[Olmate]

15 minutes ago, yodsak said:

 Notice the blatant ad ?     No funds needed ฿17,000. inclusive.

 

Won,t be long till insurance is on offer,all part of the plan

[Tayaout]

20 minutes ago, yodsak said:

 Notice the blatant ad ?     No funds needed ฿17,000. inclusive.

 

It's against forum rules to promote illegal stuff. Using this logic it means it has to be legal. ????

 

The way I understand Thailand it certainly is. 

[55Jay]

8 hours ago, mlkik said:

With the new requirements for keeping a minimum of 400000 baht in the Thai bank account all year round ,many of us thought it would be the end of agents.

However it seems to have affected the agents in such a way that they are now doing more business as more people prefer to use them than keep the money in a Thai bank.

Yup, that particular "crack down" effort fizzled out. 

 

My sense is/was the one's using agents for the fraudulent money in the bank procedure, were doing so previously.  Once the dust settled, they'll carry on as normal.

 

The new gains for the industry probably came from the folks who had been lying at certain embassies to get the (now discontinued) income affadavits.

 

Those who had the money in the bank for a long time already probably just carried on as normal. 

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You got things backwards,

It's the Thais that think we are here for them to cheat and exploit.

If I truly felt that way I would of departed long ago. Why would you stay in a country where you thought the people existed only to take advantage of you. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror for being so untrue to myself because just the knowledge of that precludes any real attempt at 'settling down'. I would be living a lie.   

[Exploring Thailand]

15 hours ago, balo said:

Listen , there are more than 10 000 retired expats right now only using agents and who do not have the 800k in the bank, and been doing so for many years, you would be surprised how many. 

Do you happen to have a source for that statistic?

[Salerno]

On 10/17/2019 at 10:51 PM, Lacessit said:

So let me put the question: How do YOU obtain your retirement extension, assuming you are in that category? If not, what makes you an expert on the topic?

Thought the question 'what agency do you work for/own" would be more appropriate 

[Orton Rd]

On 10/17/2019 at 6:32 PM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i don't care if it's illegal or imoral. all i care about is if it will not

get ME into trouble.

Better make sure they do your corrupt extension at the office in your province then, otherwise it WILL get you in trouble. Some agents get them done elsewhere due to lower costs and easier to bribe at another office. You then turn up at your office and they want to know when you moved back and why no TM28.

[Danthai]

Nine pages of discussing legal or illegal Agents. The legit ones provide valuable service because they know the legal rules and make sure all the forms are accomplished by them and all the information is correctly entered. The legit ones are well known in the community and usually provide a host of other services including translation services, wills, etc. Have used the same one for four years now for retirement and marriage extensions. The girl in the office who handles all the marriage visas is the most organized and proficient people I've had the pleasure of working with, With arthritis and diabetic neuropathy  in my writing hand I could never had filled out all the forms, let alone being 20 K from immigration office. It was well worth the 7,000 I paid for their expertise and service.

[yodsak]

7 minutes ago, Danthai said:

The legit ones provide valuable service

The agents who get you a no funds required visa provide a valuable service also.

[55Jay]

10 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

If I truly felt that way I would of departed long ago. Why would you stay in a country where you thought the people existed only to take advantage of you. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror for being so untrue to myself because just the knowledge of that precludes any real attempt at 'settling down'. I would be living a lie.   

Maybe you are, and just haven't been able to accept it.