Johnson faces perilous Brexit ratification after deal vote blocked

[tebee]

8 hours ago, transam said:

There wasn't  deal or no deal on the vote table....Again, you're going round in circles with the same ol' nonevent stuff....

 

So if there wasn't  deal or no deal on the vote table....Shouldn't we have a vote on that now, given that they are materially different. 

[transam]

Just now, tebee said:

So if there wasn't  deal or no deal on the vote table....Shouldn't we have a vote on that now, given that they are materially different. 

 

No, because I voted to leave by whatever means...I am sure there are many like me who just wanted out. Why should we bend over now because some don't like the way we are leaving. We are leaving, that's it....

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Didn't vote for no-deal Brexit though.

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No, but I would take it as a default position if the politicians can’t agree a deal.

[sanemax]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Everything he says is simply a ‘figure of speech’.

 

No it isnt, people whose first language is English will be able to tell the difference .

  When a person says *I would rather die than ................(the other option) "  , that persob isnt suggesting that they will commit suicide , what they mean is that they wouldnt prefer the first option .

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

So if there wasn't  deal or no deal on the vote table....Shouldn't we have a vote on that now, given that they are materially different. 

 

No, no more referendums . 

[SheungWan]

 
 
No, but I would take it as a default position if the politicians can’t agree a deal.

You might, but Parliament isn't.

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[SheungWan]

No it isnt, people whose first language is English will be able to tell the difference .
  When a person says *I would rather die than ................(the other option) "  , that persob isnt suggesting that they will commit suicide , what they mean is that they wouldnt prefer the first option .

"Die in the ditch" merely a synonym for "prefer"? Pull the other onen.

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[sanemax]

10 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Never a death.Never a ditch. Never £350 million.

 

Was you expecting Boris to commit suicide and actually die in a ditch ?

Boris didnt even state that he would do that , cant believe we are having basic English comprehension discussions 

[SheungWan]

No, because I voted to leave by whatever means...I am sure there are many like me who just wanted out. Why should we bend over now because some don't like the way we are leaving. We are leaving, that's it....

Don't bother even giving the "just leave" trope the slightest credibility. The Hard Brexiteers were in full opposition to Theresa May's agreement.

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[SheungWan]

 
I reckon you are fishing for a naughty reply so you can........[emoji6]......[emoji851]
 
But, in reply, it is you that is telling lies here, with your make believe stuff...[emoji19]

There is nothing make believe about the wording of the Referendum. There is nothing about no-deal there. Doubling down on the lie impresses nobody.

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[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

"Die in the ditch" merely a synonym for "prefer"? Pull the other onen.

 

Although you need to add the word "rather" at the beginning of your misquoted quote to fully understand what he meant .

  You deleted the word "rather" and thus changed the context .

[DannyCarlton]

On 10/22/2019 at 2:11 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Yesterday I took the time to watch this video in which Keir Starmer presents lots of valid points.

Boris deal is bad, he tries to hide the details and he tries to rush it through parliament.

How can any politician support a PM with such bad intentions and a record of telling anything but the truth?

 

 

The next P.M.

[DannyCarlton]

10 hours ago, transam said:

Yes, please carry on, as the remain numbers here are dwindling for some reason, I reckon it won't be long till there is just two of you.... ????

Most people have moved onto the latest news on Brexit. Read the OP on this thread, it's old news now and largely irrelevant. Do try and keep up.

[beautifulthailand99]

Robert Peston has a nightmare...

 

So, in my weird dream, EU leaders would agonise all weekend about whether France's President Macron is right that the UK should be offered just a two week delay, to focus MPs minds if they don't back Boris Johnson's Brexit it will be the no-deal Brexit they hate.

Or those EU PMs and presidents may now consider whether the UK should be offered a six month delay, so that there is enough time for the UK - if it so chooses - to have a referendum, or an election, or both.As I tossed and turned, all this uncertainty, in my dozing, made me troubled and anxious.

So I woke up, to discover it was not a dream after all, and it is the very real nightmare we are all inhabiting.

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-24/is-there-any-escape-from-the-nightmare-of-brexit-uncertainty/

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Was you expecting Boris to commit suicide and actually die in a ditch ?

Boris didnt even state that he would do that , cant believe we are having basic English comprehension discussions 

 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Robert Peston has a nightmare...

 

So, in my weird dream, EU leaders would agonise all weekend about whether France's President Macron is right that the UK should be offered just a two week delay, to focus MPs minds if they don't back Boris Johnson's Brexit it will be the no-deal Brexit they hate.

Or those EU PMs and presidents may now consider whether the UK should be offered a six month delay, so that there is enough time for the UK - if it so chooses - to have a referendum, or an election, or both.As I tossed and turned, all this uncertainty, in my dozing, made me troubled and anxious.

So I woke up, to discover it was not a dream after all, and it is the very real nightmare we are all inhabiting.

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-24/is-there-any-escape-from-the-nightmare-of-brexit-uncertainty/

It's not a nightmare, it actually is a dream. I really can't understand the agonising over another 6 months on top of the 3 1/2 years we've already spent on this. Surely spending 3 1/2 years on this and getting it all wrong is a far bigger travesty than spending 4 years on this and getting it right.

[beautifulthailand99]

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

It's not a nightmare, it actually is a dream. I really can't understand the agonising over another 6 months on top of the 3 1/2 years we've already spent on this. Surely spending 3 1/2 years on this and getting it all wrong is a far bigger travesty than spending 4 years on this and getting it right.

Peston blogs in the Spectator and his missus is a Sunday times journalist that sex-pest Johnson groped way back which may explain his views. 

[DannyCarlton]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Was you expecting Boris to commit suicide and actually die in a ditch ?

Boris didnt even state that he would do that , cant believe we are having basic English comprehension discussions 

No chance of Johnson committing suicide, he knows that his backers will murder him and throw him in a ditch if he doesn't deliver a no deal Brexit. It will cost them billions. I've no doubt that he found a horse's head in his bed the morning after he sent the letter to the EU.

[StreetCowboy]

On 10/22/2019 at 8:58 AM, kingdong said:

To comply with the democratic vote in 2016

When you make a mistake, you must follow it through to the bitter end. 

You can't stop half-way through a bottle of poison. Everyone knows that.

[StreetCowboy]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Was you expecting Boris to commit suicide and actually die in a ditch ?

Boris didnt even state that he would do that , cant believe we are having basic English comprehension discussions 

He proposed it as an aspiration, rather than a commitment.  His wishes may come true where his promises don't.  I trust neither.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

When you make a mistake, you must follow it through to the bitter end. 

You can't stop half-way through a bottle of poison. Everyone knows that.

Not at all, you must get out of the bottle of poison while you can

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, sirineou said:

Not at all, you must get out of the bottle of poison while you can

To drink only half a bottle of poison would be to deny democracy and the wishes of the people, regardless of what they think now.  Brexit means Brexit, whatever that means, and merely to question it is treason, let alone to acknowledge that it is a mistake that will sideline our country for generations to come, built on lies and misconception.

 

It will destroy the UK, impoverish Britain, and sadly, many hope it will break up the European Union.

 

Nothing is immeasurable but the universe and stupidity, and scientists are not sure about the universe.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, StreetCowboy said:

To drink only half a bottle of poison would be to deny democracy and the wishes of the people,

Leaders lead they do not follow

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, sirineou said:

Leaders lead they do not follow

That was then.  This is now.  We are beyond leadership and parliamentary democracy.  Leadership is elitest.  We need to get rid of meritocratic leadership and trust in Old Etonians to bring the Common Man to the Nirvanha of an independent country, free from the yoke of parliament.

 

In the post-fact world, old ideas of leadership, common sense, prosperity, integrity, honesty, are no more.  This is not really about Brexit - it is a war on civic society, and Brexit is merely the battleground.

 

 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

That was then.  This is now.  We are beyond leadership and parliamentary democracy.  Leadership is elitest.  We need to get rid of meritocratic leadership and trust in Old Etonians to bring the Common Man to the Nirvanha of an independent country, free from the yoke of parliament.

 

In the post-fact world, old ideas of leadership, common sense, prosperity, integrity, honesty, are no more.  This is not really about Brexit - it is a war on civic society, and Brexit is merely the battleground.

 

 

Welcome to the new paradigm and the tyranny of the majority

[StreetCowboy]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Welcome to the new paradigm and the tyranny of the majority

Directed by the tech-savvy.

 

Back in the day, the common man went through life with a grumbling resentment and a feeling of oppressive discontent.  
 

In the 1960s and 1970s, we learnt that we could rise up and rebel against this, but it did us no good, because the people we were rebelling against were our older selves, and by the time our rebellion got anywhere, we were establishment.

 

In the 80s and 90s, we realised that we had to play the game, we had to struggle, society would not look after us and we had to make our own way.

 

Then came the millenium, and we realised that zero hour contracts and the receding welfare state meant that even if you struggled, even if you fought, prosperity was a fantasy, not a dream.

 

Now we have the post-fact world, driven by social media, where people's reality is driven by the sources from where they get their newsfeed.  If we win the battle of Brexit, we will be fortunate indeed.  If we lose the battle of Brexit, but people awaken to the war that we are fighting, we will have got off lightly.

 

Boris Johnston and Jacob Rees-Mogg are not common men, and do not have common men's interests at heart.

[beautifulthailand99]

More Brexit misery from Brexit the gift that keeps on taking. You wanted less immigrants - job done. Shortages - prices will rise so the poor will suffer - yet again. 

 

Most meat processing plants have labour shortages equivalent to up to 15% of their required workforces, as the fall in the value of the pound since the 2016 referendum has combined with uncertainty about residential status, according to the Grocer trade journal. But the labour shortage at seasonal specialists could be as much as 30% because they usually increase their workforce by up to 15% at this time of year, says the British Meat Processors Association.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/26/specialist-christmas-meats-at-risk-from-lack-of-seasonal-workers

[beautifulthailand99]

31 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Directed by the tech-savvy.

 

Back in the day, the common man went through life with a grumbling resentment and a feeling of oppressive discontent.  
 

In the 1960s and 1970s, we learnt that we could rise up and rebel against this, but it did us no good, because the people we were rebelling against were our older selves, and by the time our rebellion got anywhere, we were establishment.

 

In the 80s and 90s, we realised that we had to play the game, we had to struggle, society would not look after us and we had to make our own way.

 

Then came the millenium, and we realised that zero hour contracts and the receding welfare state meant that even if you struggled, even if you fought, prosperity was a fantasy, not a dream.

 

Now we have the post-fact world, driven by social media, where people's reality is driven by the sources from where they get their newsfeed.  If we win the battle of Brexit, we will be fortunate indeed.  If we lose the battle of Brexit, but people awaken to the war that we are fighting, we will have got off lightly.

 

Boris Johnston and Jacob Rees-Mogg are not common men, and do not have common men's interests at heart.

Boris Johnston and Jacob Rees-Mogg are not common men, and do not have common men's interests at heart.

 

Self evident for anybody with half a brain. 

 

Wave the flag , peddle soundbite lies and weaponize a disaffected left-behind working class to support rich men's interests. Add a pinch of Putin chiccannery and you have a perfect storm of destabilization of a debt-saddled declining west where disaster capitalists await their greedy feast. Almost poetry !

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/11/tonnes-of-crops-left-to-rot-as-farms-struggle-to-recruit-eu-workers

 

[StreetCowboy]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Boris Johnston and Jacob Rees-Mogg are not common men, and do not have common men's interests at heart.

 

Self evident for anybody with half a brain. 

 

Wave the flag , peddle soundbite lies and weaponize the working class to support rich men's interests. Add a pinch of Putin chiccannery and you have a perfect storm of destabilization of a debt-saddled declining west where disaster capitalists await their greedy feast. Almost poetry !

 

I think it is unfortunate that sensible people are not readily moved to violence, as it may be better to come now, than when the rest of us realise how sadly they have been short-changed, and our commitment to civic decency breaks down.

[StreetCowboy]

15 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

More Brexit misery from Brexit the gift that keeps on taking. You wanted less immigrants - job done. Shortages - prices will rise so the poor will suffer - yet again. 

 

Most meat processing plants have labour shortages equivalent to up to 15% of their required workforces, as the fall in the value of the pound since the 2016 referendum has combined with uncertainty about residential status, according to the Grocer trade journal. But the labour shortage at seasonal specialists could be as much as 30% because they usually increase their workforce by up to 15% at this time of year, says the British Meat Processors Association.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/26/specialist-christmas-meats-at-risk-from-lack-of-seasonal-workers

Post-Brexit, we can take in slave labour from the third world, without any of the labour protection rules that the EU used to foist on us innocent Britons.  RESULT!