Defamation law, ie neg Google review

[banagan]

I know defamation is ilegal here, but what about posting a review with facts and no slander? 

 

I just ordered 2 sandwiches in a well known sandwich joint. 1 had avocado, took a small bite and some black avocado fell out. Sent it back and they said they'd change it, no problem I thought. So, they scrape off the rotten avocado and replace it! 

 

Anyway, no way I'm eating it and don't plan to pay for it. So let's say they kick off, and I end up having to pay for a bit of peace, I'd like to post my experience on Google and some local foodie groups.

 

If I post pictures, and facts, is this still considered defamation?

 

Hope it doesn't come to that, but they're not doing theselves any favors with these food practices... New management I think.

[tifino]

write it up as a glowing reference! - that you got more than you had asked for, and at no extra cost  

 

I've seen plenty of avacado going black... still ate it. (Moreso just for the look on Mrs face, glaring at me, as if I was showing her up that she married 'poor people' 

 

 - how black was it? ... like a 3 month old peeled banana?

[SteveK]

Even if what you post is the God's honest truth, I believe in Thailand you could still end up in bother. Just don't go back there.

[banagan]

15 minutes ago, tifino said:

write it up as a glowing reference! - that you got more than you had asked for, and at no extra cost  

 

I've seen plenty of avacado going black... still ate it. (Moreso just for the look on Mrs face, glaring at me, as if I was showing her up that she married 'poor people' 

 

 - how black was it? ... like a 3 month old peeled banana?

Pretty black, no business being in a sandwich.

[banagan]

7 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Even if what you post is the God's honest truth, I believe in Thailand you could still end up in bother. Just don't go back there.

Plenty of negative reviews out there, I guess they either don't know, don't show or just don't care about the boys in da hood.

[banagan]

Told them I refused to pay, small argument, they said when they said replace, they meant the rotten avocado! Of course! Think it's new owners, hope they get their act together.

[richard_smith237]

You can make up a username on TripAdvisor for reviews etc... so Anonymous reviews are easy. 

 

That said Thailand's draconian deformation laws ignore truth and fact - they consider the 'intention' to defame a person or institution and guild is decadent upon perceived intent rather than whether or not a comment is factually correct or not. 

 

Sites like TripAdvisor 'could' be a landmine in Thailand regarding defamation laws, but somehow have remained in the 'grey area' as its so difficult to prove the owner of the posting profile. 

 

Be very careful about posting defaming comments on Facebook or any social media where your ID can be readily proven. 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, banagan said:

Told them I refused to pay, small argument, they said when they said replace, they meant the rotten avocado! Of course! Think it's new owners, hope they get their act together.

 

I such situations in the past, I've paid, then called the Owners / Manager over... 

I've pointed out that I've paid, I'm not interested in discount or extra freebees and that I want them to know exactly why I was disappointed and if the experience was poor enough or with owners / management who showed no genuine concern or apparent intention to improve, why I will not be returning.

 

I find myself returning more and more to places I like. 

 

 

[CharlieH]

Read the Thaivisa forum rules, defamation is clearly defined.

 

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel. Any such posts will be removed and the poster may face an immediate ban.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.
 

[Ventenio]

Yes, never ever ever post anything that isn't 100% positive.  Honestly, I would never post anything at all on a public forum that's negative to a Thai or a Thai business.  Just never do it, and never send anything negative about a Thai or a Thai business to anyone.  That's easily the easiest way.  

 

I don't have facebook, twitter, instagram, nothing.....and i'll never post a review in Thailand.  The OP's post makes the most sense.  You vented, didn't name and shame, and hopefully you are over it and next time you won't even need to post anything.....laugh, realize this is life, and move on.....If you buy something, it's horrible, maybe try to go back with a smile....talk in person in private and if they don't help you.....thank them, leave, and learn.  but i wouldn't even consider doing that unless it was at least thousands of baht.  

[plfomylo]

You have a VPN and fake accounts ? do what you want ! you can also post reviews about Thaivisa as many enjoy doing ❤️

 

 

[fhickson]

simple verifiable facts without opinions are not defamation:

 

for example,

 

my sandwich had a black avacado and i vomited later. heres my pic and hospital bill.

vs

my sandwich had a rotten avacado and made me sick. dont go here you will get food poisoning.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by fhickson

[simon43]

21 minutes ago, fhickson said:

simple verifiable facts without opinions are not defamation:

 

for example,

 

my sandwich had a black avacado and i vomited later. heres my pic and hospital bill.

vs

my sandwich had a rotten avacado and made me sick. dont go here you will get food poisoning.

 

Not the case in Thailand.  If you make a statement that can cause loss of custom to a business, even if you speak 100% truth without opinion, that's defamation, because your honest statement may cause the business to lose customers.

[Don Chance]

Google won't give you up to the Thai government. Just use a different name.

[fhickson]

28 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Not the case in Thailand.  If you make a statement that can cause loss of custom to a business, even if you speak 100% truth without opinion, that's defamation, because your honest statement may cause the business to lose customers.

 

Under Section 326 of the Thai Criminal Code, defamation is defined as whoever imputes anything about another person to a third person in a manner likely to impair the person’s reputation or place the person in contempt or hatred by others. When defamation is committed by publication or other media made visible by any means, the offender is liable for imprisonment for up to two years and a fine of up to 200,000 baht. If the person who is accused of defamation is able to prove that the statement is true, the person shall not be punished. But the truth is not a defense for private matters that is not a benefit to the public (Section 330).

[CNXexpat]

There are Thai websites and FB groups about hotels and restaurants and some get bad reviews. Nothing happens if the review is not too offensive.

I guess it would go public all over the world very quick, if a tourist gives a bad review to a restaurant or hotel at Tripadvisor, Booking or Agoda and they arrest him or her at the airport.

[JaiLai]

was there not a case a couple of years ago all over social media about someone having issues with their car not being repaired and inadequate service that led them to drive to showroom, burn said vehicle, video and post for the world to see?

 

is this not defamation?

[simon43]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:41 PM, fhickson said:

 

Under Section 326 of the Thai Criminal Code, defamation is defined as whoever imputes anything about another person to a third person in a manner likely to impair the person’s reputation or place the person in contempt or hatred by others. When defamation is committed by publication or other media made visible by any means, the offender is liable for imprisonment for up to two years and a fine of up to 200,000 baht. If the person who is accused of defamation is able to prove that the statement is true, the person shall not be punished. But the truth is not a defense for private matters that is not a benefit to the public (Section 330).

Well, good luck with winning that argument in a Thai Court of Law ????

 

In the OP's example, he wasn't happy with his avocado sandwich.  Can one therefore infer that ALL avocado sandwiches made by the business are the same?  I don't think so.  Every other customer might have wonderful avocado sandwiches.  Therefore, his dissatisfaction is a private matter between him and the business.  IMHO, his complaint about his dissatisfaction could land him in hot water...

Edited October 27, 2019 by simon43

[smutcakes]

I am 99.9% sure if you write a sensible, honest review even if it is negative you will never have a problem.

 

If you write a barely literate ranting review, full of drama without giving any context and fairness into it your review will probably be removed and rightly so.

 

Either way your chances of any defamation action by the owner are next to 0 and quite frankly most people, business owners included have better things to do with their time and money.

[malt25]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:47 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I such situations in the past, I've paid, then called the Owners / Manager over... 

I've pointed out that I've paid, I'm not interested in discount or extra freebees and that I want them to know exactly why I was disappointed and if the experience was poor enough or with owners / management who showed no genuine concern or apparent intention to improve, why I will not be returning.

 

I find myself returning more and more to places I like. 

 

 

"I find myself returning more and more to places I like. "  Wow, that's a novel idea !

[justin case]

thai laws here are made to protect the rich and feeble of mind

 

that cannot take criticism

 

no competition allowed either, that would be bad for business

[norfolkandchance]

On a slightly different matter. A few months ago I reviewed a Guest House on the beach in Khanom. (Booking.Com).

Previous reviews where in the 9s and some 10s. I tried to make mine honest and the score came out at 8.3.

I received a message back from the Guest House saying that they very sad and disappointed on what I had said.

i replied, saying that to their credit I did not mention the following.

The airport shuttle was an old car driven by an erratic driver who constantly drove above the speed limit.

The 2 dogs owned by the owners barked in the night. No front desk.

Said dogs where allowed to wander and sleep in the dining area.

No breakfast but toast and coffee. Room rate was Baht 1600.

The beach in front of the premises was stained black due to an overflow from properties above.

Fellow guests where allowed to smoke on the shared balcony. Advertised as No Smoking throughout.

I have not received a reply to date.