Mandatory health insurance for retirees falls flat as ‘Non-Imm O’ visa loophole exposed

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Mandatory health insurance for retirees falls flat as ‘Non-Imm O’ visa loophole exposed

By The Phuket News

 

An officer at holds up an application for an extension stay at the Phuket Immigration Office earlier this year. Photo: Tanyaluk Sakoot

PHUKET: Phuket Immigration this week finally confirmed that the mandatory health insurance requirement for people staying in the country on permits to stay under “Non-Immigrant O-A” visa status do not apply to those staying under the general “Non-Immigrant O” visa.

 

The admission renders enforcing the mandatory health insurance requirement pointless as Phuket Immigration this week also confirmed that foreigners can change the visa conditions under which they are applying for a one-year permit to stay.

 

Hence, any foreigners staying on a “Non-Immigrant O-A” visa can change their permit-to-stay status to “Non-Immigrant O” and avoid the mandatory health insurance requirement

Full story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/mandatory-health-insurance-for-retirees-falls-flat-as-non-imm-o-visa-loophole-exposed-73376.php#2VoWyyOHFVC3h4AO.99

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-10-27

Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking Thailand news and visa info

 

 

[fishtank]

There are no flies on him!

[zhounan]

hahah lol

Thailand begs pensioners to come and spend the last savings here. 

"please, please, don't leave.????"

 

[GeorgeCross]

can't wait for the first 'non-o abuser' posts to roll in from our fully insured retiree members!

[KhunBENQ]

Quote

To that end, Col Kathathorn this week also denied a rumour that Phuket Immigration had submitted an official request to postpone the health insurance requirement until the rules had been “made more clear”.

What a mess that not even the local immigration bosses seem to know what it exactly means.

 

[Pattaya46]

31 minutes ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Hence, any foreigners staying on a “Non-Immigrant O-A” visa can change their permit-to-stay status to “Non-Immigrant O” and avoid the mandatory health insurance requirement

I don't understand. The foreigner must be in Thailand to change his status, and the requirement for Insurance is to be checked when entering the country, so nothing to win by changing the status... not? 

 

And BTW, changing your visa status is easier to say than to do. You must qualify for it... and some of those who chose O-A do it precisely because they don't qualify for Non-O extensions.

 

Edit: Then in fact, Phuket Immigration is saying that those on Non-O-A will need Insurance for their yearly extension... the opposite of what ThaiVisa is saying from the beginning... 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Pattaya46

[Samui Bodoh]

42 minutes ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Phuket Immigration this week finally confirmed that the mandatory health insurance requirement for people staying in the country on permits to stay under “Non-Immigrant O-A” visa status do not apply to those staying under the general “Non-Immigrant O” visa.

Then why is there insurance for a Non-O-A either? Both have the same financial requirements...

 

Has this all been (yet another) exercise in nonsense? Like the nosy information form? Or, is this even more wrong information?

 

If Thailand wants to be taken seriously, then it needs to be serious; at the moment, it seems to be a third-world, banana republic spouting nonsense entity.

 

It is not a good look...

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Samui Bodoh

[DaRoadrunner]

The Phuket immigration chief deserves a medal for this, though more likely he may get posted to an inactive position for defying orders. .... I like this man!

[spiekerjozef]

lol a final attempt to keep the only foreigners left in phuket here

[lkv]

Translation from Thinglish to English:

 

========

"However, Phuket Immigration Chief Lt Col Kathathorn Kumthieng confirmed to The Phuket News this week, “People applying under the Non-Immigrant O visa do not need health insurance, but people applying for permits to stay under different visas will get the different benefits of the visa they are applying under.

“For example, a foreigner who has Non- Immigrant O-A visa will get a one-year year extension,” he said.

Yet Col Kathathorn would not confirm that one-year permits to stay would no longer be approved for those applying under “Non-Immigrant O’ visa status. Under immigration regulations, that option is still available.

=======

 

This is how he is deceiving, trying to still "promote the benefits of the non O-A".  He wants us to deduct that a non O offers a shorter extension of stay. Saying that different visas offer different "benefits", but when asked whether it means a shorter extension of stay for the non O, avoiding the question in typical Thai fashion.

 

=======

Lt Col Worapol also confirmed the option for foreigners to change their visa status from within Thailand.

“For example a foreigner on a tourist visa can applying to be under a Non-Immigrant visa, such as a Non-Imm O, Non-Imm B (Business), Non-Imm Ed (education), or other. They can come to apply for the visas type that the foreigner is qualified for.”

However, like Phuket Immigration Chief Col Kathathorn, Lt Col Worapol also avoided expressly confirming that foreigners can change their visa status from Non-Immigrant O-A to Non-Immigrant O.

=======

 

That's because what the Colonel does not like to tell us is that, on the same logic with changing TR to non O, you can change but you cannot really change non O-A to non O within Thailand, because they don't like to do their job, so people will need to exit Thailand to the nearest consulate to apply for the non O.

Edited October 27, 2019 by lkv

[WhatupThailand]

Rule #1- if the rule is too easy to understand, Change it.

 

Rule #2- All rules must have at least 3 different meanings, each of which can be proved valid.

 

Rule #3- All rules are subject to the Interpretation of the Officer, regardless of his state of mind.

 

[smedly]

everybody knows that this insurance debacle is nothing but a huge scam and money grab

 

Also, people who have chosen to retire here now have an age limit of 75 because they will never get the insurance past that age.

 

There are other more simple options 

 

- hold a permanent bank balance of Baht 400,000 for all those on 12 month extension

or

- Let those on 12 month extension pay into the Thai public health system

or

- just not allow people to retire here (many are/will be leaving anyway)

[FarFlungFalang]

28 minutes ago, WhatupThailand said:

The policyholder – who is literally held up at gunpoint

Sorry for being pedantic but I think you mean "figuratively",as "literally held up at gun point" would mean they actually used a gun!

[Seismic]

Seriously??, we knew this at least 8 months ago !!

[smedly]

17 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Then why is there insurance for a Non-O-A either? Both have the same financial requirements...

no they don't

[cnxnicho]

It's only relevant and compulsory for Non O-A visas obtained outside of Thailand anyway !!!

[Mango Bob]

The insurance is supposed to be for those who apply for an O/A visa after 31 Oct 19 and extend here.   Those who have  been here on an O/A visa in the past and are on an extension to stay now do not need the insurance.  Why can't be Immigrations Chiefs read their own Police Report.  What the hell is the matter with these people.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Mango Bob

[smedly]

what a cluster ####

[moe666]

38 minutes ago, WhatupThailand said:

INSURANCE COERCION

THIS TALKS ABOUT CAR INSURANCE, BUT IS EASILY RELATED TO THE HEALTH INSURANCE RACKET

More precisely, to what you haven't done as a driver.
No claims filed against you. No "accidents." You pay (and pay). They collect.

Curiously, the principle is never applied in reverse. The policyholder – who is literally held up at gunpoint, forced by the government to pay and if he fails to pay, will be accosted by men with guns, not because of any harm he has caused but because he hasn't paid – never receives a refund for not having cost the insurance company anything.

Meanwhile, all it takes is a "speeding" ticket or two to negate decades of claim-free driving.
They collect more – even though you still haven't cost them anything.

What a racket. Literally.

The ticket is punishment for ignoring a rule.
But it is taken as equivalent to a claim – even though no damage has been done to anyone.
It serves as the pretext for rate "adjustments" which could never be justified otherwise, given the absence of claims filed.

And not even that.

You can have an accident and ticket-free driving record extending back decades
and still be forced to pay rates out of all proportion to the risk you present.

SEE THE FULL ARTICLE: Mafia Profiling
https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2019/10/26/mafia-profiling/
 

I have had several wrecks and several tickets a year, never caused my insurance to go up in fact it went down thid year by a thousand. Something doesn't add up with your rant

[LivinLOS]

13 minutes ago, smedly said:

no they don't

For extension of stay incountry... Yes they do... 

[FarFlungFalang]

Logic and cohesion are not popular traits amoung the Thai administration.Is this guy volunteering for a non active post? 

Edited October 27, 2019 by FarFlungFalang
Add Text

[LivinLOS]

10 minutes ago, nichopaulcnx said:

It's only relevant and compulsory for Non O-A visas obtained outside of Thailand anyway !!!

Not according to Chiang mai, Jomtien, yasithorn, (a few other regional offices that escape me at moment in NE) and most importantly CW main office and the central phone helpline. All of them have confirmed at one time or other that this will apply to extensions of stay coming from an initial O-A. In fact even this Phuket piece confirms that same outcome for an O-A. 

Whats different here is they are apparently willing to 'convert' non imm O-A permission of stays into O permission of stays. Perfectly possible and something thats been questioned all along. 

[roobaa01]

so current loops are 1. non-o, non-om, pe visa

2 any extension based on marriage or thai kids

 

thus 80.000 more non-o/ m applications.

 

mfg

roobaa01

[mosan]

35 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I don't understand. The foreigner must be in Thailand to change his status, and the requirement for Insurance is to be checked when entering the country, so nothing to win by changing the status... not? 

 

And BTW, changing your visa status is easier to say than to do. You must qualify for it... and some of those who chose O-A do it precisely because they don't qualify for Non-O extensions.

 

Edit: Then in fact, Phuket Immigration is saying that those on Non-O-A will need Insurance for their yearly extension... the opposite of what ThaiVisa is saying from the beginning... 

@Pattaya46

 

"some of those who chose O-A do it precisely because they don't qualify for Non-O extensions"  

 

You are absolutely wrong.  Most chose the O-A because you don't have to hassle with bringing in the money and locking it up in Thai banks for months at a time.  One still has to prove they have 800k deposited in their home bank or 65K per month income.  I guess you have not went to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or a Embassy/Consular website to know that there are "more" requirements needed, and now the addition of the Healthcare insurance.  

 

Yes, I am a O-A Long Stay Visa holder, but I don't mind paying for health insurance (even though what they offer sucks).  I just don't want to bring the money over here.  When I die the money will be in my home country so my daughter gets whatever is on deposit.  Additionally, I have a house in my home country, and I want the funds to be liquid so I can pay for things there.  Locking away 400k year round and 800k for an additional 5 months is just not my cup of tea. 

[FarFlungFalang]

Does this open the possibility to fix the loophole by requiring all non imm visas to have health insurance?

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Does this open the possibility to fix the loophole by requiring all non imm visas to have health insurance?

Precisely why I hold the idea that long term this is the case.. 

 

Why would they allow it for o class retirees and not oa class retirees, when once extending its entirely the same requirements. I am not saying it will be now.. But a few years out I cant see why they wouldnt close another 'loophole' as they see it. 

[smedly]

12 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

For extension of stay incountry... Yes they do... 

it is a huge difference - for an extension of stay the money needs to be in Thailand and other rules apply to that money 

 

So they are NOT THE SAME

[55Jay]

Self-fulfilling prophecy. 

[FarFlungFalang]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

Precisely why I hold the idea that long term this is the case.. 

 

Why would they allow it for o class retirees and not oa class retirees, when once extending its entirely the same requirements. I am not saying it will be now.. But a few years out I cant see why they wouldnt close another 'loophole' as they see it. 

If it did as you suggest and I refused to insure and they denied permission to stay in Thailand how would that sit with the international convention signed by Thailand to not deny couples the right to reside together?

[LivinLOS]

6 minutes ago, smedly said:

it is a huge difference - for an extension of stay the money needs to be in Thailand and other rules apply to that money 

 

So they are NOT THE SAME

And yet the primary question thats being addressed here is.. How will immigration treat extensions of stay, of OA visa generated entries. This isnt about obtaining the initial visas outside of Thailand in the OP at all !! 

 

And yes.. Both O and OA generated permissions of stay, have the same requirements for incountry extension, with the one exception of this insurance.