Health Insurance: Non-Imm O-A

[Peter Denis]

4 hours ago, peterbkk2 said:

Hi Sheryl, I would like to understand more about the above highlighted statement. I am currently in Thailand on an unexpired OA Visa (expires 06-JAN-2020). I will be leaving Thailand before 06-JAN-2020 and will not have an opportunity to return before 06-JAN-2020. I was planning to get a multi-entry re-entry permit before I leave Thailand this year. Are you saying that they will not issue the re-entry permit to me because my OA has not yet expired?

Hi PeterBKK2,

From your post it is not 100 % clear whether 06-JAN-2020 is the expiry date of your original OA Visa, or whether it is the last day of your permission to stay (as stamped in your passport).

Presuming that 06-JAN-2020 is the expiry date of your original OA Visa, that would mean you are still in your 1st year of OA Visa validity.  You would therefore need to look what is the last date of your permission to stay (as stamped in your passport during your last entry).

That permission to stay date will by definition be later than your OA Visa validity, as it has been stamped in your passport on (re)-entry in Thailand after the Visa was issued.

a) If that permission to stay date is AFTER the date you plan to return, you will need to apply for a re-entry ticket beforehand as your original OA Visa validity will have expired when re-entering after 06-JAN-2020, and the re-entry permit will keep the granted permission to stay alive. 

b) If the permission to stay date is BEFORE the date you plan to return (in other words it has already passed), the easiest solution would be to do a border-run in course of coming weeks.  On your return from such a border-run - which has to be done before 06-JAN-2020, your Visa expiry date - you will be stamped in again for a 1 year permission to stay.

Hope this helps...

 

 

 

 

[peterbkk2]

9 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi PeterBKK2,

From your post it is not 100 % clear whether 06-JAN-2020 is the expiry date of your original OA Visa, or whether it is the last day of your permission to stay (as stamped in your passport).

Presuming that 06-JAN-2020 is the expiry date of your original OA Visa, that would mean you are still in your 1st year of OA Visa validity.  You would therefore need to look what is the last date of your permission to stay (as stamped in your passport during your last entry).

That permission to stay date will by definition be later than your OA Visa validity, as it has been stamped in your passport on (re)-entry in Thailand after the Visa was issued.

a) If that permission to stay date is AFTER the date you plan to return, you will need to apply for a re-entry ticket beforehand as your original OA Visa validity will have expired when re-entering after 06-JAN-2020, and the re-entry permit will keep the granted permission to stay alive. 

b) If the permission to stay date is BEFORE the date you plan to return (in other words it has already passed), the easiest solution would be to do a border-run in course of coming weeks.  On your return from such a border-run - which has to be done before 06-JAN-2020, your Visa expiry date - you will be stamped in again for a 1 year permission to stay.

Hope this helps...

 

 

 

 

Hi
OA Visa issue date: 07-JAN-2019
OA Visa valid until: 06-JAN-2020
Current Permission to stay until: 24 OCT 2020

Therefore my OA Visa is still active and valid.
I will leave Thailand this year and not return until next year (i.e. after 06 JAN 2020).

So to preserve my existing permission to stay I would like to buy a re-entry permit.

My question to Sheryl was to confirm if her statement that re-entry permits could not be purchased whilst on an active multi-entry visa was true or not.

Another poster has kindly showed his reentry permit he obtained whilst on an active OA Visa - which seems to show that you can.

Peter

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, peterbkk2 said:

My permission to stay is until 24-OCT-2020 (one year from date of entry)

>> Sorry, only noticed your 2nd post with permission to stay date just now. <<

You will be returning after your original OA Visa validity expired (06-JAN-2020).

In order to keep your present permission to stay (24-OCT-2020) alive, you would need to apply for a re-entry permit at your provincial IO (or in the airport, if they still do it there) before leaving Thailand.  The re-entry permit will keep the granted permission (24-OCT-2020) to stay alive.

Note: In view of the new health insurance requirement, it is advised to buy only a single re-entry permit (1000 THB).  Multiple re-entry permits will make it difficult to 'kill' your OA Visa's permit to stay in case you would like to switch over to an O type Visa.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Peter Denis

[MadMac]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yet he managed to get stamped in yesterday for a year !!

Happened to me before on a B which should have been only 3 months. Unfortunately I could only use it for one weekend before leaving again ????

[Sheryl]

11 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Thanks. So, if, they decide that people with an OA issued before 31st can exit and re-enter during the first year without insurance, then it follows that they will also be able to stay for the second year, using a re-entry permit granted after the OA has expired, in just the same way as people have been getting  second year in the past. Correct?

Yes.

 

No matter how things are interpreted it will not affect entry on a re-entry permit. It never does as no new permission to stay is involved. When you enter on a RE permit you have already met the conditions for permission to stay and are just leaving and coming back on that same, already granted, permission.

 

The entry stamp you receive coming in on a RE permit is different ftom a new entry stamp.

 

Any issues people may encounter will occur either (1) entering the country on a still valid OA visa and/or (2) getting a new in-country extension of stay when original visa was OA. There is confusion and differing IO interpretations around these but not around use of RE permits for already granted permssions/extensions of stay.

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, peterbkk2 said:

Hi Sheryl, I would like to understand more about the above highlighted statement. I am currently in Thailand on an unexpired OA Visa (expires 06-JAN-2020). I will be leaving Thailand before 06-JAN-2020 and will not have an opportunity to return before 06-JAN-2020. I was planning to get a multi-entry re-entry permit before I leave Thailand this year. Are you saying that they will not issue the re-entry permit to me because my OA has not yet expired?

 

In your case assuming your permission to stay goes beyond the period of visa validity I think it may be possible to get and use a RE permit. What one cannot do is enter on a RE permit while still holding a valid entry visa.

[Sheryl]

50 minutes ago, Fai Tan said:

Anyone know of a Thai company that will insure the over eighties

No. There are none.

 

There are companies that will continue to renew an existing policy for life/age 99 but they do not newly enrol past age 75. 

 

There is one company that will newly enrol up to 80 (Navakij) but they will not renew past 80. In other words an 80 year old could insure with them for only 1 year, a 79 year old for only 2 years etc (which makes this company not a viable option in most cases) and anyone over 80 can't newly enrol at all.

 

There are international companies that will insure at any age but it appears such policies will not be accepted 3xcept possibly gor the first year only.

 

And at present there is no option for those who can't get a policy from one of the approved companies. So basically the OA visa is no longer an option for a person over 75. The whole thing is very poorly designed and not well thought through.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, domdom said:

Good morning

 

I would like to clarify one point..

I have an extension of stay valid till october 2020 payed 1900 bahts. If things don t change and I want to get a O visa based on retirement, I imagine I have one re entry based on this extension of stay..

If I understood well what is said in some posts, going out before my extension of stay validity will not allow me to apply here in Jomtien for an 0 visa ? My extension expires on October 4th..

Does it mean I have to go out on 4th for exaple and reenter on 5th on visa exemption (french) or if I don t go to immigration to get a re entry permit, will my extension of stay disappear even if I go out in september and re enter before oct 4th ?
Thank you in advance

Have a nice sunday

 

You do not have any re-entry on this extension of stay unless you purchased a re-entry permit. If you did so, then you may have either 1 or unlimited entries left within that permission of stay depending in whether you got a single or ME re-entry permit.

 

If you have no RE permit then your permission to stay is canceled as soon as you leave the country.

[peterbkk2]

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

In your case assuming your permission to stay goes beyond the period of visa validity I think it may be possible to get and use a RE permit. What one cannot do is enter on a RE permit while still holding a valid entry visa.

My permission to stay is until 24 OCT 2020 (1 year from date of entry on OA visa)

[UncleMhee]

29 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What one cannot do is enter on a RE permit while still holding a valid entry visa.

@Sheryl you persist in saying the above quote. My post #323 indicates otherwise.

 

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

...

Interestingly that poster posted a photo of his visa and it had a validity of only 3 months !! ( i.e. valid from 18 July: valid until 17 Oct ) issued in Canberra .

Yet he managed to get stamped in yesterday for a year !!

Seems like the “ valid until “ date is wrong but immigration are still honouring it as a year.

 

I did not know that it was possible to get a Non Imm OA Visa with a validity of only 3 months.

Is this simply a blooper from the Canberra Embassy?

Or is there indeed such thing as a limited validity Non Imm OA Visa, and if so are the requirements for it same as for the regular 1 year validity one?

When the health insurance requirement (which stipulates 1 year) is not applicable for such limited validity OA Visa, that could be a way to avoid the headache health insurance requirement, especially since you would be stamped in on entry for a full year.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Peter Denis

[domdom]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

You do not have any re-entry on this extension of stay unless you purchased a re-entry permit. If you did so, then you may have either 1 or unlimited entries left within that permission of stay depending in whether you got a single or ME re-entry permit.

 

If you have no RE permit then your permission to stay is canceled as soon as you leave the country.

Thank you very much.. So, if things go wrong with the insurance I assume I just have to leave the country to Cambodia one half day (whithout informing Jomtien before or ask for any RE) and come back on visa exemption and then go to Jomtien and apply for O visa.. (this, if till date they did not enforce the insurance for O visa also..)

As I was on extension, and so if I go out in october I will already have been in Thailand for nearly 10 months, I won t have problem to re enter on visa exemption (I think the limit to stay in Thailand without proper visa is 6 months..)
Thank you

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, domdom said:

Thank you very much.. So, if things go wrong with the insurance I assume I just have to leave the country to Cambodia one half day (whithout informing Jomtien before or ask for any RE) and come back on visa exemption and then go to Jomtien and apply for O visa.. (this, if till date they did not enforce the insurance for O visa also..)

As I was on extension, and so if I go out in october I will already have been in Thailand for nearly 10 months, I won t have problem to re enter on visa exemption (I think the limit to stay in Thailand without proper visa is 6 months..)
Thank you

 

You may run into problems re-entering from Cambodia without staying overnight at least 1 night.

 

Might or might not get flak from Thai IO re-entering visa exempt with history of living in Cambodia. For sure do not try this at the Poipet/Aranyaprathet crossing. @UbonJoe can advise best entry point for this.

[domdom]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

.

 

Might or might not get flak from Thai IO re-entering visa exempt with history of living in Cambodia. For sure do not try this at the Poipet/Aranyaprathet crossing. @UbonJoe can advise best entry point for this.

Sorry I don t understand.. I live in Thailand and have not been in Cambodia for 3 years.. I only plan to go out and re enter in Had Lek with exemption.. going out half day or one day, no problem..

but I would like to be sure that after 5 years in Thailand with OA and then extension, they would still give me a visa exemption to make my visa in Jomtien

Have a nice sunday and thanks

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, domdom said:

Sorry I don t understand.. I live in Thailand and have not been in Cambodia for 3 years.. I only plan to go out and re enter in Had Lek with exemption.. going out half day or one day, no problem..

but I would like to be sure that after 5 years in Thailand with OA and then extension, they would still give me a visa exemption to make my visa in Jomtien

Have a nice sunday and thanks

 

Cambodian crossings often refuse to allow same day in and out. Doesn't matter whether you have been in Cambodia before, the issue is the same day entry and exit. They want you to spend at least one night.

 

The crossing at Poipet/Aranyaprathet is notorious for making problems and refusing entry.

 

As I said best to ask @ubonjoe  re best crossing point to be assurred of getting an exempt entry.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, domdom said:

Sorry I don t understand.. I live in Thailand and have not been in Cambodia for 3 years.. I only plan to go out and re enter in Had Lek with exemption.. going out half day or one day, no problem..

but I would like to be sure that after 5 years in Thailand with OA and then extension, they would still give me a visa exemption to make my visa in Jomtien

Have a nice sunday and thanks

Cambodia requires that you stay 24 hours in the country before exiting again, but this seems not to be enforced everywhere (twice I already made same day exit-re-entries at the Choam Sa Ngam Thai-Cambodian border-crossing, no problem at all).

When re-entering Thailand, thai border IOs are indeed checking whether you are not a 'serial tourist'.  Since you have been living in Thailand on the correct Visa, there is absolutely no issue letting you in again on Visa exemption or on a Tourist Visa.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I did not know that it was possible to get a Non Imm OA Visa with a validity of only 3 months.

 

It's NOT three months... It's the standard year. You're missing the difference between the 2019 and 2020 dates in the clip you posted above.

 

That person got his O-A in mid 2019, used it for an entry now later in 2019, and was given a standard one year permission to stay until late 2020 under the terms of his still valid O-A.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[peterbkk2]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's NOT three months... It's the standard year. You're missing the difference between the 2019 and 2020 dates in the clip you posted above.

 

That person got his O-A in mid 2019, used it for an entry now later in 2019, and was given a standard one year permission to stay until late 2020 under the terms of his still valid O-A.

 

He was talking about the OA visa picture from the original facebook post. He could not understand why there is only a 3-month validity period between the valid from and valid until dates. 
 

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's NOT three months... It's the standard year. You're missing the difference between the 2019 and 2020 dates in the clip you posted above.

That person got his O-A in mid 2019, used it for an entry now later in 2019, and was given a standard one year permission to stay until late 2020 under the terms of his still valid O-A.

On the original Facebook-post, there was a scan of the actual OA Visa (attached).

Valid from 18 July 2019, valid until 17 October 2019.

Could of course be a Canberra embassy mistake, but if not is there indeed a 3 month OA Visa validity option.

Note: The guy entered Thailand 25 July 2019 and was stamped in for a full year.

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

12 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

On the original Facebook-post, there was a scan of the actual OA Visa (attached).

Valid from 18 July 2019, valid until 17 October 2019.

Could of course be a Canberra embassy mistake, but if not is there indeed a 3 month OA Visa validity option.

Note: The guy entered Thailand 25 July 2019 and was stamped in for a full year.

 

I believe it is a mistake, although there was a poster on TVF claiming the same ( his OA was valid for 3 months only ), he was shot down in flames by many on here and never posted a photo as proof.

[domdom]

Thanks for answers..

[Max69xl]

21 hours ago, pookondee said:

Id say you 2 guys arguing the toss over terminology is actually more confusing than anything said anywhere.

 

I for one have read both your arguments and am totally confused.

 

I thought you could get a normal O-A, (at one price) which is "killable" as you say..

 

but its also possible to get multi-entry O-A ( at a higher price) which i suppose is not killable??

The O-A incl. ME the first year. The second year you need a re-entry permit when leaving the country and coming back. Without the re-entry permit you will kill the O-A when leaving. What's confusing?  

[pookondee]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

The O-A incl. ME the first year. The second year you need a re-entry permit when leaving the country and coming back. Without the re-entry permit you will kill the O-A when leaving. What's confusing?  

I got that, but it seems whatever is written, someone else will pipe up with a different theory.

and then others muddy the waters by  arguing over terminology.

 

Many questions like mine could have been answered with a simple

 "yes thats right"

or

"no, thats wrong"

-but instead people waffle on with a lot of hogwash, that still makes one second guess

 

[lkv]

6 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I seen that post.

Interestingly that poster posted a photo of his visa and it had a validity of only 3 months !! ( i.e. valid from 18 July: valid until 17 Oct ) issued in Canberra .

Yet he managed to get stamped in yesterday for a year !!

Seems like the “ valid until “ date is wrong but immigration are still honouring it as a year.

The original poster that attached the copy of the non O-A visa has been indeed issued with a multiple entry non O-A valid for 3 months, and he entered on 25 July 2019, receiving a permission of stay of 12 months.

 

Since he is now past the visa validity, he has been advised to apply for a re-entry permit, if he wants to exit the country, keeping his permission of stay "alive" until 23 July 2020.

 

It's not clear why Canberra issued a non O-A valid for only 3 months, but it will be treated as such by IO's.

 

The comment i took a screenshot of came from another poster (in the comments section)

 

This poster claimed his non O-A was issued 19/07/2019, re-entered Thailand on 02/11/2019 (so already his second entry on the non O-A), past the date of the police order coming into effect, and the IO's at the border did not ask him to show insurance. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by lkv

[domdom]

Hello,

 

Don t you think embassies/consulates of all countries who have OA retirees here should join and ask a meeting with 1me minister or who ever person in charge and try and find a solution ?

For me it would be better to obtain a deposit of 440.000 bahts more, or acceptance of foreign coverages, or other ways to avoid this health insurance issue..

Good evening

[Thaidream]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

n addition the police order specifically states that existing permissions of stay will be unaffected. It is only new permissions to stay/extensions,.

IMO this is what indicates 'grandfathering'    No prior O-A issued before 31 October 2019 are affected and need insurance.  IMO  the only thing that triggers the insurance are new O-A's with an issue date of 31 October 2019 or after or any permission to stay issued after 31 October 2019 . 

 

The only thing that an Immigration Officer needs to be concerned about re insurance is an original O-A Visa with a date after 31 October 2019.  IMO- how could a person who was issued an O-A years ago and with unbroken extensions  each year be in the same status as a person issued with an O-A after the new rule is effective. It is completely illogical to me to apply a law retroactively.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Thaidream

[lkv]

35 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

IMO- how could a person who was issued an O-A years ago and with unbroken extensions  each year be in the same status as a person issued with an O-A after the new rule is effective. It is completely illogical to me to apply a law retroactively.

They are both spending extended periods of time in Thailand uninsured.

 

Grandfathering "no insurance" would put the category you are suggesting at risk, and they need insurance the most at their age, imo, since their visit in Thailand was long already and they probably reached a certain age.

 

It is to be understood as well, that when no insurance company insures anymore, the visit will terminate.

 

They would be eligible however, for future shorter visits, provided no insurance will be required for tourists, and they would be deemed "fit to fly".

 

Every section of the Immigration Act 1979 uses the terminology "temporary stay", unless they refer to PR or citizenship.

 

Just keeping it real.

 

Then again, in reality, alternative solutions will be found for some (agents, Elite, etc)

Edited November 3, 2019 by lkv

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

IMO this is what indicates 'grandfathering'    No prior O-A issued before 31 October 2019 are affected and need insurance.  IMO  the only thing that triggers the insurance are new O-A's with an issue date of 31 October 2019 or after or any permission to stay issued after 31 October 2019 .

 

The only thing that an Immigration Officer needs to be concerned about re insurance is an original O-A Visa with a date after 31 October 2019.  IMO- how could a person who was issued an O-A years ago and with unbroken extensions  each year be in the same status as a person issued with an O-A after the new rule is effective. It is completely illogical to me to apply a law retroactively.

I fully agree with the above.

But there are now already 3 cases on record where extensions of permissions to stay were being denied for holders of an original OA Visa who had no thai-approved health insurance.  However, it should be noted that none of these were first-hand reports, but still...

Needless to say, that all OA Visa holders would love to see a report of someone whose application for extension of permission to stay based on his original OA Visa was accepted without having thai-approved new health insurance.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, lkv said:

...

Grandfathering insurance would put the category you are suggesting at risk, and they need insurance the most at their age, simce their visit in Thailand was long.

It is to be understood as well, that when no insurance company insures anymore, the visit will terminate.

...

Nobody denies or disputes the fact that it is wise to have health insurance especially for OA Visa holders which are by definition over 50 years of age.

And I am pretty sure that the vast majority of these OA Visa holders have taken care of that for themselves.

But the 'thai-approved' health insurance does not take that into consideration, and is forcing original OA Visa holders to step into a scheme that has little or no benefits (to put it politely). 

Unfortunately it is very clear that OA Visa applications done after Oct 31 need to comply with this ridiculous new health insurance requirement.  Surprise, surprise, when the number of OA Visa applications will drastically drop in coming months/years (as there are other ways to stay long-term in Thailand without having to swallow this scheme).

Imo holders of OA Visas / extensions of stay issued before Oct 31 need to protest the retro-active application of the new health insurance requirement as in the 3 already reported cases of extensions of permission to stay being denied.  Switching to a Non Imm O Visa is a clear signal that the new requirement is killing the OA Visa type category.  IO probably does not care about that, but for sure it's once again not good publicity for LOS and far more grave than the in comparison minor TM30 hassle.  

[lkv]

23 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

But the 'thai-approved' health insurance does not take that into consideration, and is forcing original OA Visa holders to step into a scheme that has little or no benefits (to put it politely). 

Part of the country nature.

 

Each country that one travels to, has particularities, and some are third world corrupt countries run by Military, where preferred insurance companies have Army members in their shareholding structure and pay cuts all the way up in the pyramid.

 

Mix that concept with the "temporary stay" concept, i.e. they don't integrate well, and we get the picture.

 

In fact, they never wanted to integrate travellers. PR is only available if you had 3 continuous years of non B + WP

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by lkv