Why more Non-Imm "O" options from Thai Embassy UK vs. from Thai Embassy US?

[JTXR]

Sorry if this question has been asked before....

Looking into future options to my current extension of stay based on original Non-Imm OA, I notice that the Thai Embassy in UK (London) offers several options, while the embassy in the U.S. (Washington DC) offers only two.  What gives?

UK:

"O"	To visit family or friends in Thailand, voluntary job, retirement, medical treatment, to attend judicial process, to work as diplomat's housekeeper

 

U.S.

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O”    Those who wish to stay with family in Thailand (Thai Family) or wish to do volunteering work with the state enterprises or social welfare organizations in Thailand  (Volunteering)

[Genericnic]

For the same reason that there are different rules among the various immigration offices in Thailand. TIT

 

David

[Number 6]

43 minutes ago, JTXR said:

attend judicial process

UK prole's perhaps in trouble with the law more often.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Number 6

[baboon]

As far as I can tell, there is this Evisa system in the UK, France and China. Soon enough it will be worldwide. If you think you have it tough in the US, just wait for the Evisa party to start and your lack of options...

[JTXR]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

UK prole's perhaps in trouble with the law more often.

Perhaps.  But why are housekeepers for Brit diplomats even a category?

[BritTim]

You should not treat the information on embassy websites as gospel concerning the visa categories that are available. For instance, I am pretty sure visas for domestic staff of accredited diplomats would be issued by the embassy in the US as well as in the UK. It is also possible that some visa categories previously available no longer are. As an example, Non O visas to visit friends or distant relatives in Thailand have not been available in the UK for at least a decade, but the embassy website suggests it is still an option.

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, JTXR said:

Looking into future options to my current extension of stay based on original Non-Imm OA, I notice that the Thai Embassy in UK (London) offers several options, while the embassy in the U.S. (Washington DC) offers only two.  What gives?

You’re quoting reasons for a visa to be issued which has little to do with extensions in Thailand.

 

Technically you can only extend the stay of a Non O-A Visa for retirement. They might allow an extension if you’re the spouse or parent of a Thai, but if you want to extend for any reason other than retirement you might need to leave the country and obtain the correct category of Non-Imm visa.

[BritTim]

35 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You’re quoting reasons for a visa to be issued which has little to do with extensions in Thailand.

 

Technically you can only extend the stay of a Non O-A Visa for retirement. They might allow an extension if you’re the spouse or parent of a Thai, but if you want to extend for any reason other than retirement you might need to leave the country and obtain the correct category of Non-Imm visa.

Yes, and it is difficult to know what your local immigration office will and will not allow. Generally, the police order relating to extensions says only that you must have been issue a Non Immigrant visa, not specifying which categories of Non Immigrant visa are acceptable. Superficially that would seem to imply that any category of Non Immigrant visa would be accepted for the extensions requiring Non Immigrant visas. Practice shows that is not the case, and officials have a lot of leeway in making their decisions.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Yes, and it is difficult to know what your local immigration office will and will not allow. Generally, the police order relating to extensions says only that you must have been issue a Non Immigrant visa, not specifying which categories of Non Immigrant visa are acceptable.

The police orders do not specify the category because it is assumed that the person has the correct category.

 

In simple terms, whatever the reason the visa was issued for is the only reason you can extend your stay.

 

As I've written many times, the type and category of visa you enter with determines everything that happens thereafter. If you apply for an entry visa to work (Non B) that is the reason for the stay granted by the IO at the border. And if you want to extend that stay you can only - under the system - extend based on work. The exact same principle applies to all other visa types/categories. 

 

Fortunately sometimes offices ignore the 'rules'; but more often than not, if you want to change the reason for your stay, they send you out for the correct type/category of visa.

 

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Superficially that would seem to imply that any category of Non Immigrant visa would be accepted for the extensions requiring Non Immigrant visas. Practice shows that is not the case, and officials have a lot of leeway in making their decisions.

Someone in the past has misread the police order to mean any type of Non-Imm and their opinion has been repeated over time until it - like many things - becomes 'fact'.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Fortunately sometimes offices ignore the 'rules'; but more often than not, if you want to change the reason for your stay, they send you out for the correct type/category of visa.

Ignore rules that do not exist?

There is no such rule.

[JTXR]

I know the differences between Non-Imm OA and Non-Imm O.  That's not the issue.  Extensions and TI ignoring or not ignoring rules are not the issue. 

The issue (which maybe was not clear in the original post) is why does the Thai embassy in London say it will issue a Non-Imm O for retirement but the Thai embassy in Washington does not?

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, JTXR said:

The issue (which maybe was not clear in the original post) is why does the Thai embassy in London say it will issue a Non-Imm O for retirement but the Thai embassy in Washington does not?

Because like many embassies embassies and official consulates they do not issue a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement. They will only issue a OA long stay visa.

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Ignore rules that do not exist?

There is no such rule.

The facts trump your opinion.

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, JTXR said:

I know the differences between Non-Imm OA and Non-Imm O.  That's not the issue.  Extensions and TI ignoring or not ignoring rules are not the issue. 

The issue (which maybe was not clear in the original post) is why does the Thai embassy in London say it will issue a Non-Imm O for retirement but the Thai embassy in Washington does not?

Embassies have always had certain flexibility over the visas they issue. Washington aren’t the only Embassy not to issue an O to “retirees”, and London toughened up on the issue of O’s several years ago.
 

It looks very much like the powers that be are looking to drop the O and only issue the O-A to retirees.

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The facts trump your opinion.

Then why have many people to been able to do it

It only the opinion of a immigration officer when they refuse since there really no rule that states it cannot be done.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Then why have many people to been able to do it

Because, as I've said, sometimes offices bend the rules.

 

If there were no rule then offices would not be sending people out for new visas. There are far more reports of offices sending people out for the correct category of visa than allowing an extension with the wrong category of visa.

 

Quote

It only the opinion of a immigration officer when they refuse since there really no rule that states it cannot be done.

I agree with the first part, but you are wrong about the second. If you had ever seen the 'rule book', that is in every office, you would know that the rules are far more comprehensive than the basic conditions and criteria issued in the police orders; and that those rules are added to and amended over time. They also include local/divisional rules.

 

The visa system works on the basis that you apply for a visa to visit Thailand for a specific reason. After you've entered you can - if you meet the conditions and criteria - extend that stay for the same reason.

 

The O category covers several reasons for entry/stay, but by the strict letter of the rule book, if you enter with and O issued based on retirement and want to switch to a family based extension, they could send you out for a new O visa obtained with family based documents. That is very rare because the office can easily side step the rules as there is no evidence (unless it's written on the visa by the issuing consul) as to the basis the O was originally issued. But if you, for example, enter with a ED or B Non-Imm visa and want to apply for a 'retirement extension' more often than not you'll be sent out for an O visa, because that's what the rules dictate.

Edited November 3, 2019 by elviajero