On 11/4/2019 at 4:24 PM, Monomial said:

 

Why do you think that?  The Trump supporters I have spoken with would not change their opinion even if all the worst rumors are confirmed. They are happy he put the screws to the Ukraine in order to get them to do what is right and investigate corruption. They consider anything he did to be a good thing, even if it was a technical infraction.

 

I'm just curious exactly what part of this investigation you feel is going to change anyone's opinion? Every single person I have ever spoken to about this already has his/her mind made up. Nothing in the known universe is going to change it. Unless you have a video of Trump pulling babies out of incubators and stepping on them, the numbers are likely going to stay exactly where they are today with little variance.

 

This is a genuine question, not a wind up. I completely agree you can hope the numbers might change, just like I hope to win the lottery, but expect?  I think you are setting yourself up for a massive disappointment.

 

Nixon was a different time. The Clinton impeachment was highly partisan and changed public perception about what impeachment is. Just like filibustering in the Senate used to be unthinkable, and is now a common tactic. Impeachments are going to be commonplace in the future. This is just the start.

Unfortunately I have to agree with your sentiment.

On 11/5/2019 at 8:27 AM, J Town said:

As one TV member previously posted, he didn't care if Trump took away lunches from poor school children as long as his business continued to do well. Judas couldn't have said it better himself. 30 pieces of silver is 30 pieces of silver.

 

When was the last time you heard ANY credible news source report "Gee, this looks like Trump might be innocent?" Even Trump is now starting to say there is nothing wrong with a quid pro quo.

 

Seems to me you are missing the point though. Nobody, even his supporters, thinks he is innocent of the charges. The issue is whether or not it rises to the level of an action that merits impeachment. Clinton already set the precedent that just comitting a technically illegal act doesn't mean you should be impeached.

 

Also a word of caution. It is naive to paint half the country as greedy and evil just because they don't share your values.  Trump is a psycopath and a demagogue, and still people voted for him. Rather than railing against that, better to ask what happened in the previous 50 years that led us to this position, where people actually think that he is a viable solution to the problem?  Hint: It is not because every Trump supporter is a greedy, evil racist.

 

14 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

Seems to me you are missing the point though. Nobody, even his supporters, thinks he is innocent of the charges. The issue is whether or not it rises to the level of an action that merits impeachment. Clinton already set the precedent that just comitting a technically illegal act doesn't mean you should be impeached.

 

Also a word of caution. It is naive to paint half the country as greedy and evil just because they don't share your values.  Trump is a psycopath and a demagogue, and still people voted for him. Rather than railing against that, better to ask what happened in the previous 50 years that led us to this position, where people actually think that he is a viable solution to the problem?  Hint: It is not because every Trump supporter is a greedy, evil racist.

 

Nobody said every.

Anyway, there is ZERO DOUBT that 45's obvious (and admitted) offenses are massively more serious than what Clinton did.

If he's allowed to remain in office -- this is a message to all future presidents to abuse presidential power as much as you want, we don't care. We had a republic with shared powers and we chose an imperial presidency. I heard a commentator today say something interesting that I hope is true. While it's obvious by now that 45 will be impeached by house and deservedly so, conviction and removal remains very unlikely. But the commentator noted that if (a big IF) there are four or five republican PATRIOT senators that do the right thing and vote to remove that will add up to a bipartisan majority of the senate saying NO! We don't have the numbers to remove but by a large majority in the house and a small majority in the senate we are  saying ABSOLUTLEY NOT is it OK for any future president to abuse her powers like this one has. That might be good enough. 

 

22 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

Seems to me you are missing the point though. Nobody, even his supporters, thinks he is innocent of the charges.

Not at all. Lindsey Graham, who will be heading the judiciary committee on Trump's removal from office, has publicly stated he won't even look at the evidence. In his mind, Trump is innocent, and Lindsey's opinion matters.