helping wife in shop

[ubonjoe]

41 minutes ago, HHTel said:

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits", and is based on the individual, not employment as in some other countries. ... It covers both employment and consulting.

Actually the definition of work was changed a couple of years ago.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, TaoNow said:

So, instead of helping out in his wife's shop, let's say that OP likes to make pottery as a hobby. 

 

He has a lots of bowls, mugs, dishes, and other works of his pottery left over, and he gives these to neighbors and friends.

 

The word gets around on social media, other people admire his artful works of pottery, and people start coming to visit and ask to buy or commission pieces of pottery.

 

He says he cannot sell his pottery since it is just a hobby, not a business.   But he says that people can make donations to the tip jar for the peices they take.

 

He has no work permit; his hobby is not displacing a Thai worker; no harm, no foul?

If they wouldn't buy the pottery from this foreigner they might buy it from a Thai instead. So obviously he is taking a job away from a Thai.

[prakhonchai nick]

Perhaps now I can stop mowing the wifes 2 large lawns in excess of 2 rai. She can hire a gardener. But then I would need to find a new excuse to down a few beers!

[Peterw42]

I have a story thats relevant to this topic.

3-4 years ago we (wife and I) had a little restaurant in Bangsaen, 40 baht thai food, University student customers, a quiet little out of the way soi, attached to the front of our house. The lounge etc was part of the restaurant.

I didnt have a WP etc but used to help wife , clear tables, give menus, take orders to the kitchen etc. Not much chance of ever being caught out, we even had a local policeman as a customer and I would serve him, sit and chat etc.

I was always saying to the wife how I shouldn't be doing this etc, and she never really believed me.

 

Fast foward and a year later we were selling the restaurant, had it on Kaidee, bahtsold etc, every now and then people would turn up to have a look. Wife mentioned some people are coming tonight to look at the restaurant. I didnt think anything more of it until that evening , I have an apron on and helping out between watching a movie and playing guitar etc

Just then a black mini van pulls up, must be the people to look at the restaurant. Out of the minivan comes 8 Thai immigration guys in uniform, two of them had come to buy the restaurant and their friends came to have a look. To say I shat myself is an understatement.

I ran into the wife, took off the apron, telling her I wont be able to do anything while these guys are here, dont mention that I help etc.

 

Wife wasnt having a bar of it, we were busy and she needed the help, so after introductions where made the first thing she says to them is "My husband says he is not allowed to help me, is that true" The immigration guys thought this was hilarious, 5 minutes later when they stopped laughing, they didnt care less, in fact they said I would get in more trouble if I didnt help the wife. They were actually patting me on the back and offering condolences that I still had to help my wife. The senior of the immigration guys said (not an official statement) husband can always help wife no problem, a joke about having penis fed to ducks if you dont.

 

Suffice to say, they didnt end up buying the restaurant, (they did stay late and drink alot of free whisky though) and I didnt do any work while they were there but it was an interesting experience. 

 

I think there is an unofficial view on helping wife.

Maybe others can recall the story 6 months ago of a guy helping his wife wash cars, it was on the evening news etc and as far as I know the guy didnt get in any trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

[Youlike]

19 hours ago, happy chappie said:

You can drive her to makro and after that put your feet up in the hammock and read a good book.

I see many farang shopping so much in the Makro that i bet they do it for their shop....

[Bangkok Barry]

It's funny, isn't it. Foreigners are expected to support their Thai family but are not allowed to work. It's a strange world.

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

It's funny, isn't it. Foreigners are expected to support their Thai family but are not allowed to work. It's a strange world.

Male foreigners are expected to work in their home country and send money to Thailand.

[bbi1]

You can't do anything unless you want to get deported.

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I think your location makes some difference. I can't believe helping load and unload supplies will get ozz in trouble. Up north you have many farang farming, raising cattle, driving tractor, no problem. Farang ting too mutt.

Time to report them to your local immigration department and get those law breakers deported.

[EVENKEEL]

1 minute ago, bbi1 said:

Time to report them to your local immigration department and get those law breakers deported.

I'm assuming you're joking, I believe it's called sarcasm. I hope I'm right. 

.

.

 

[neeray]

55 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I have a story thats relevant to this topic.

Thanks for the chuckle. I needed that.

[Greyhat]

Am I right in thinking that even though I have a work permit I can't help my girlfriend sweep up in her shop since I'm employed by a different company?

[Peterw42]

24 minutes ago, Greyhat said:

Am I right in thinking that even though I have a work permit I can't help my girlfriend sweep up in her shop since I'm employed by a different company?

Sweeping a floor is manual labor, ie: a Thai only job, with or without a WP.

[Myran]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

It's funny, isn't it. Foreigners are expected to support their Thai family but are not allowed to work. It's a strange world.

Whatever gave you that idea? Of course foreigners are allowed to work, but they need a work permit.

[Langkawee]

1 hour ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Perhaps now I can stop mowing the wifes 2 large lawns in excess of 2 rai. She can hire a gardener. But then I would need to find a new excuse to down a few beers!

555

[impulse]

19 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Sweeping a floor is manual labor, ie: a Thai only job, with or without a WP.

 

I think you've hit on a good point...  There are 2 related, but distinct issues involved, yet a lot of other posters (not Peterw42) seem to mingle them.

 

1) All work done by a foreigner requires a work permit.  Even volunteer work requires a WP.

2) There are some protected professions that are reserved for Thai citizens, for which a foreigner cannot get a WP.

 

I don't claim to be an expert, but 7+ years of reading posts here on TVF leads me to believe that your mileage may vary depending on a lot of factors like where you are, what you're doing, how unobtrusively you're doing it, and what Thai family/community you married into.

[simon43]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Actually the definition of work was changed a couple of years ago.

Although this doesn't affect me (I live in Laos), this new definition of work is VERY interesting.  It says 'To perform any professional work...'

 

Depending on how 'professional work' is defined/interpreted, IMHO, there's a world of difference between helping someone in a kitchen to wash the dishes and managing a restaurant.  Is the former a professional work?  I'd argue no...

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Myran said:

Whatever gave you that idea? Of course foreigners are allowed to work, but they need a work permit.

 

For a very limited number of jobs. Foreigners going to many other countries are eligible for almost any job if qualified. They can even be a State Governor in the USA. Imagine that in Thailand.

[ICELANDMAN]

3 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

People worry too much, Chinese guy round the corner has the same non imm O visa as me with employment prohibited stamped on it. He has been going out to work daily for the past 8 years!

Chinese  have different Visa O, you know

Edited November 5, 2019 by ICELANDMAN

[ubonr1971]

4 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

The law is the "law" but as with everything it's fluid ????

Depends a lot on where you are ie tourist area, small isolated village etc

I help a lot with things around our restaurant, otherwise stuff just wouldn't get done !! 

Never involved with customers though, just background stuff and mainly fixing things.

We are not in a tourist area and I keep a low profile within the community, so hopefully don't step on anyone's toes ??

I could get busted, for sure, but rather help out than sit on my butt....

I have to agree with your comments. 

 

The wife and I have a business in my wifes name of course. The pavers outside our shop needed pressure spraying. I went to immigration with a photo of a pressure sprayer and asked if Im allowed to do this job. I said that I would not be getting paid for this work. He said its ok as long as your not getting paid. I also asked if I can paint outside and he said its ok. I think it depends on your immigration office but I would go and ask them yourself. Its my personal opinion / advice to the OP. 

[ubonr1971]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I have a story thats relevant to this topic.

3-4 years ago we (wife and I) had a little restaurant in Bangsaen, 40 baht thai food, University student customers, a quiet little out of the way soi, attached to the front of our house. The lounge etc was part of the restaurant.

I didnt have a WP etc but used to help wife , clear tables, give menus, take orders to the kitchen etc. Not much chance of ever being caught out, we even had a local policeman as a customer and I would serve him, sit and chat etc.

I was always saying to the wife how I shouldn't be doing this etc, and she never really believed me.

 

Fast foward and a year later we were selling the restaurant, had it on Kaidee, bahtsold etc, every now and then people would turn up to have a look. Wife mentioned some people are coming tonight to look at the restaurant. I didnt think anything more of it until that evening , I have an apron on and helping out between watching a movie and playing guitar etc

Just then a black mini van pulls up, must be the people to look at the restaurant. Out of the minivan comes 8 Thai immigration guys in uniform, two of them had come to buy the restaurant and their friends came to have a look. To say I shat myself is an understatement.

I ran into the wife, took off the apron, telling her I wont be able to do anything while these guys are here, dont mention that I help etc.

 

Wife wasnt having a bar of it, we were busy and she needed the help, so after introductions where made the first thing she says to them is "My husband says he is not allowed to help me, is that true" The immigration guys thought this was hilarious, 5 minutes later when they stopped laughing, they didnt care less, in fact they said I would get in more trouble if I didnt help the wife. They were actually patting me on the back and offering condolences that I still had to help my wife. The senior of the immigration guys said (not an official statement) husband can always help wife no problem, a joke about having penis fed to ducks if you dont.

 

Suffice to say, they didnt end up buying the restaurant, (they did stay late and drink alot of free whisky though) and I didnt do any work while they were there but it was an interesting experience. 

 

I think there is an unofficial view on helping wife.

Maybe others can recall the story 6 months ago of a guy helping his wife wash cars, it was on the evening news etc and as far as I know the guy didnt get in any trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

I liked your story and maybe you can read my comment above. I think certain immigration officers dont give a toss if a farang helps his wife as long as he is not getting paid. Its certainly the case in my area as I directly asked the local officers at my local imm office. 

[ChakaKhan]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I have a story thats relevant to this topic.

3-4 years ago we (wife and I) had a little restaurant in Bangsaen, 40 baht thai food, University student customers, a quiet little out of the way soi, attached to the front of our house. The lounge etc was part of the restaurant.

I didnt have a WP etc but used to help wife , clear tables, give menus, take orders to the kitchen etc. Not much chance of ever being caught out, we even had a local policeman as a customer and I would serve him, sit and chat etc.

I was always saying to the wife how I shouldn't be doing this etc, and she never really believed me.

 

Fast foward and a year later we were selling the restaurant, had it on Kaidee, bahtsold etc, every now and then people would turn up to have a look. Wife mentioned some people are coming tonight to look at the restaurant. I didnt think anything more of it until that evening , I have an apron on and helping out between watching a movie and playing guitar etc

Just then a black mini van pulls up, must be the people to look at the restaurant. Out of the minivan comes 8 Thai immigration guys in uniform, two of them had come to buy the restaurant and their friends came to have a look. To say I shat myself is an understatement.

I ran into the wife, took off the apron, telling her I wont be able to do anything while these guys are here, dont mention that I help etc.

 

Wife wasnt having a bar of it, we were busy and she needed the help, so after introductions where made the first thing she says to them is "My husband says he is not allowed to help me, is that true" The immigration guys thought this was hilarious, 5 minutes later when they stopped laughing, they didnt care less, in fact they said I would get in more trouble if I didnt help the wife. They were actually patting me on the back and offering condolences that I still had to help my wife. The senior of the immigration guys said (not an official statement) husband can always help wife no problem, a joke about having penis fed to ducks if you dont.

 

Suffice to say, they didnt end up buying the restaurant, (they did stay late and drink alot of free whisky though) and I didnt do any work while they were there but it was an interesting experience. 

 

I think there is an unofficial view on helping wife.

Maybe others can recall the story 6 months ago of a guy helping his wife wash cars, it was on the evening news etc and as far as I know the guy didnt get in any trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

So the Immig boys warned you ab out the "Penal Codes " in the LOS!!!   Ps Your avatar always catches my eye and makes me feel all warm...speaking of Penal codes......(heads towards exit)

[Orton Rd]

17 minutes ago, ICELANDMAN said:

Chinese  have different Visa O, you know

same visa as me, he asked me to copy his passport, his mrs is here looking after the baby that they pretend has a Thai father. Think they paid the Thai guy for that so she can stay until the kid has grown up. All the Chinese somehow bought houses here, one couple just bought third 3rd house on the estate, can't even speak Thai. Chinese get away with anything here.

[ChakaKhan]

Ive had a work visa and work permit and even volunteer visa...never got asked to verify sadly as I worked hard as he// to get that WP, still have it as a trophy...

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Technically you are not allowed to do anything without having a work permit.

That's true, but I would have no qualms about breaking that law as long as I was not keeping a Thai out of a job. I would not sit and watch the wife lifting things and putting them on the selves.

 

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It doesn't matter how you dress it up, he is working. A tip is payment for services rendered. 

If anyone goes out of his way to obey everyones laws, he may as well just not bother getting out of his bed in the morning as life would just not be worth living.

I live my life my way, not anyone elses, but would never do anything that would go against ordinary people.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

People worry too much, Chinese guy round the corner has the same non imm O visa as me with employment prohibited stamped on it. He has been going out to work daily for the past 8 years!

Is that not one of the reasons for the Thai government being so bad to us westerners with these visa issues?

[FarFlungFalang]

6 hours ago, Estrada said:

Strictly speaking, even sex is considered work.

You mean I have to employ a Thai to have sex with my wife?

[Jaxxper]

I think the rules say , no WP then no work, not even on a voluntary basis.

[FarFlungFalang]

We have a local police officer I think of fairly high rank who saw me working on the farm and never seems to stop bragging to his mates how I work on the farm and they all have a laugh about it!