helping wife in shop

[johng]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

They can even be a State Governor in the USA.

He said in his latest film  "I won't be back" ????????

[bbi1]

16 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

We have a local police officer I think of fairly high rank who saw me working on the farm and never seems to stop bragging to his mates how I work on the farm and they all have a laugh about it!

That translates to the cops are laughing at u that a farang is working on a farm and having a joke about it between themselves.

[DJ54]

21 hours ago, digbeth said:

Can I get a letter from immigration that I must not do any washing up? 

I was washing the kitchen trash basket out front of the house.

Thought what if police or immigration came by..... I’d explain the

rules can’t do work a Thai can... then tell them ask her. She’s not going to do it....

 

i made a picture and asked the wife.... is it a culture thing or is the trash deemed as a monster.

Two years someone besides me emptied it once.

7 people live here....

Edited November 5, 2019 by DJ54
Added picture

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I think you've hit on a good point...  There are 2 related, but distinct issues involved, yet a lot of other posters (not Peterw42) seem to mingle them.

 

1) All work done by a foreigner requires a work permit.  Even volunteer work requires a WP.

2) There are some protected professions that are reserved for Thai citizens, for which a foreigner cannot get a WP.

 

I don't claim to be an expert, but 7+ years of reading posts here on TVF leads me to believe that your mileage may vary depending on a lot of factors like where you are, what you're doing, how unobtrusively you're doing it, and what Thai family/community you married into.

All well said and no doubt the level / seriousness of checking by immigration officers and/or police will be different in different locations, however that doesn't mean the law is changed.

 

The reality is that local immigration officers / police cannot change or adjust the national laws*. 

 

The 2 main points above are correct and a good summation of the laws involved and they apply in all of Thailand. 

 

*About 5 years back I was managing a consulting project near Lampang. An old farang approached me to ask if the company concerned needed English lessons, and he produced a much folded one page letter (in Thai) from a previous provincial police chief, explaining to me in English that the latter said 'he didn't need a work permit and he didn't need to renew his visa because he had been in Thailand several decades and was over 70 years old'.

 

My Thai senior consultant was with me at the time (he speaks perfect English) he read the thai letter and said confirmed 'yes, that's exactly what the letter says'.

 

The company concerned did want English lessons and the old farang produced some quite good materials he had developed over many years.

 

My consultant called the Labour ministry on behalf of the actual client and asked if such letters are valid, but without giving any other details.

 

Labour ministry guy said he had heard of such letters a few times before but they are  absolutely not valid / cannot be valid, and the police have no authority whatever to give such letters. 

 

The company did some reference checking and established the old man had a good reputation locally for his teaching. The company offered to get him a real WP.

 

He backed off quickly emphasizing that he didn't want any officers to see any of his documents. 

 

A few weeks later another local company was raided because they had several hundred illegal Burmese workers and the farang teacher got caught up in the raid.

 

Bottom line, he was fined heavily for no WP and fined the maximum and deported for 2 decades of overstay.  

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Time to report them to your local immigration department and get those law breakers deported.

I don't know if your comment was tongue in cheek or not but I think generally local Thais don't give a stuff. Local farang however.......?

I think they are far more likely to report someone because of jealously, spite or because of some deluded, twisted sense of power.

Live and let live is my motto.

When you read stories relating to people being reported, most of the time mentioned a bar or restaurant on a tourist area. You can pretty well guaranteed the dobber was farang. Most Thais have no idea of the work permit requirements or for that matter the many other requirements such as TM30 and 90 day reporting.

I met an English bloke in Tesco one time. We got chatting and he invited us to his place. His directions was to go to Moo xx and ask anyone where the farang shop is.

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by emptypockets

[overherebc]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I think your location makes some difference. I can't believe helping load and unload supplies will get ozz in trouble. Up north you have many farang farming, raising cattle, driving tractor, no problem. Farang ting too mutt.

Local expat was uloading boxes of beer helping his staff.

Two off duty cops in the bar lifted him for it. Negotiations started at 50,000 but ended up at 20,000.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

If anyone goes out of his way to obey everyones laws, he may as well just not bother getting out of his bed in the morning as life would just not be worth living.

I live my life my way, not anyone elses, but would never do anything that would go against ordinary people.

It is up to you. If caught working illegally you would be going home! 

[pieeyed]

My BIL was spotted moving a glass coffee table out of the way of his stumbling around 2 year old boy in my wife's shop. Imm had some spies around and took pics. Hauled him off, 20k later all was good. 

 

[Alex2554]

Thai Civil and Commercial Code

Book 5

Section 1461
Husband and wife shall cohabit as husband and wife. 
Husband and wife shall maintain and support each other according to his or her ability and 
condition in life. 
 

[djtheoz]

I asked this question to an immigration officer in Mae Hong Son. He replied; this issue has two interpretations ; the human side (helping your own family to survive) and the act of work. It will depend on the officer coming in your shop which side he will choose to see. If they want you, you’re out. 

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, pieeyed said:

My BIL was spotted moving a glass coffee table out of the way of his stumbling around 2 year old boy in my wife's shop. Imm had some spies around and took pics. Hauled him off, 20k later all was good. 

 

Where was this and when? I must admit I find this very hard to believe. Your BIL is also farang or are you Thai?

In fact this reads 100% on my BS meter.

[kralledr]

5 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

We have a local police officer I think of fairly high rank who saw me working on the farm and never seems to stop bragging to his mates how I work on the farm and they all have a laugh about it!

that works until he get mad for whatever reason and whant money...

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, overherebc said:

Local expat was uloading boxes of beer helping his staff.

Two off duty cops in the bar lifted him for it. Negotiations started at 50,000 but ended up at 20,000.

Crazy it has to be like that, 

[Rastaputin]

10 hours ago, Myran said:

He's making money on his pottery – in other words, working. If "donations" were a viable loophole, everyone would be using it.

Let’s see ....

 

If I remember correctly, ‘work’ in Thai Law is defined in such a way that payment or any benefit gained (or not) does not matter.

 

Your friend makes clay pots and donates them to his friends and neighbors -> considered work.

 

Now, what would happen if he creates the pots and then destroys them? Must still be considered work then!

 

That now leads to the assumption that pottery by farangs (w/o WP for Pottery) is definitely illegal. Same with all kinds of hobbies.

 

A crazy world we live in!

[overherebc]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Crazy it has to be like that, 

The fact he employs a cook and a couple of waitresses and pays them a reasonable salary is obviously ignored, well on paper his wife does. Close the bar, he doesn't actually need it, and 3 or 4 Thais lose their job obviously doesn't matter either.

Make a sentence from  shoot foot own.

[KKr]

12 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It doesn't matter how you dress it up, he is working. A tip is payment for services rendered. 

Not if it is an undue payment,

a tip is basically a gift.

 

Now have to search that undue concept in Thai law

[WhatupThailand]

13 hours ago, HHTel said:

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits", and is based on the individual, not employment as in some other countries. ... It covers both employment and consulting.

So next time your at a shop or resturant eating, Don't let them see you Chewing !

 

[ericthai]

14 hours ago, TaoNow said:

So, instead of helping out in his wife's shop, let's say that OP likes to make pottery as a hobby. 

 

He has a lots of bowls, mugs, dishes, and other works of his pottery left over, and he gives these to neighbors and friends.

 

The word gets around on social media, other people admire his artful works of pottery, and people start coming to visit and ask to buy or commission pieces of pottery.

 

He says he cannot sell his pottery since it is just a hobby, not a business.   But he says that people can make donations to the tip jar for the peices they take.

 

He has no work permit; his hobby is not displacing a Thai worker; no harm, no foul?

and if a Thai complained it would all end very badly for him!!

[emptypockets]

25 minutes ago, ericthai said:

and if a Thai complained it would all end very badly for him!!

Not sure where you live but where I am if the locals could buy the pottery direct from the 'farang' for say 50 baht and then on sell it at the market for 70 baht they would be beating a path to his door with no thoughts of work permits or anything else.

Most Thais have no idea of labour laws or immigration as do (not) most people in their home countries. I can just imagine the  look on the newly elected kamnan if I asked a question about this....no idea whatsoever. The previous kamnan expressed admiration for the little bit of landscaping me an the wife did, not much more then some 900mm square pavers and a few river stones. Does look nice though.

Could I have employed a Thai to do this?...sure...did I want to ...no. Am I shaking in my boots worrying - absolutely not.

Edited November 5, 2019 by emptypockets

[ICELANDMAN]

On 11/5/2019 at 1:08 PM, Orton Rd said:

same visa as me, he asked me to copy his passport, his mrs is here looking after the baby that they pretend has a Thai father. Think they paid the Thai guy for that so she can stay until the kid has grown up. All the Chinese somehow bought houses here, one couple just bought third 3rd house on the estate, can't even speak Thai. Chinese get away with anything here.

Yes this because I said your visa is not the same, Chinese is the first scammer for everything.

[Assurancetourix]

On 11/5/2019 at 1:00 PM, ubonr1971 said:

I have to agree with your comments. 

 

The wife and I have a business in my wifes name of course. The pavers outside our shop needed pressure spraying. I went to immigration with a photo of a pressure sprayer and asked if Im allowed to do this job. I said that I would not be getting paid for this work. He said its ok as long as your not getting paid. I also asked if I can paint outside and he said its ok. I think it depends on your immigration office but I would go and ask them yourself. Its my personal opinion / advice to the OP. 

I have always heard but I have never read it;

and our friend and moderator Ubonjoe could be very useful to us;

 

A farang  officially married at the town hall (in the village, that does not count), can quite legally help his wife in the trade she carries out.

My wife is a farmer, so I can drive the tractor that I bought, but only on her land.

On the other hand if the neighbor asks me to come to help him, I will answer him: it is forbidden because I do not have the good visa ; but I'll do because I like him .

Apart from that, in the countryside in Issan, if you are on good terms with your neighbors you can do absolutely anything you want;

nobody will ever see the police at 12 km from our village and they will never come to the bottom of the Q hole of the countryside if a farang drives an agricultural tractor. 

[MekkOne]

On 11/5/2019 at 9:25 AM, Orton Rd said:

People worry too much, Chinese guy round the corner has the same non imm O visa as me with employment prohibited stamped on it. He has been going out to work daily for the past 8 years!

In the non -O- there is no "employment prohibited" stamp...

[Orton Rd]

DO you really want me to post it? EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED in red at the bottom

[MekkOne]

18 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

DO you really want me to post it? EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED in red at the bottom

you know that there are different kind of non -O- not only the one for old people?

 

Marriage non -O- and WP for me so probably you have the wrong non -O-

 

[ubonjoe]

34 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

DO you really want me to post it? EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED in red at the bottom

That is a very old visa issued by a honorary consulate.

Just an error done by them. 

[Nong Khai Man]

On 11/5/2019 at 7:36 AM, Estrada said:

You cannot do any work without a work permit and cannot do any work considered reserved for Thais. Strictly speaking, even sex is considered work.

. Strictly speaking, even sex is considered work.......And Sometimes That is HARD Work.....

[Orton Rd]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is a very old visa issued by a honorary consulate.

Just an error done by them. 

The Chinese man had the same 'error' issued not as long ago

[owl sees all]

On 11/5/2019 at 8:03 AM, Crossy said:

I'm not even allowed in the kitchen now, let alone near the stove or sink, it seems I am permitted to open the fridge to get a beer out (but only when the grandkids are not there to get me one).

Same here. It's not good for a farang to be in a Thai kitchen.

 

Apart from the fact that I'm close on two metres in height and the ceiling slopes away to about 1.6 metres at the sink, It's not a man's job.

 

Leave well alone guys; don't tempt fate. Wouldn't want to see a topic on TVForum about a farang being deported for washing his beer glass.

Edited November 7, 2019 by owl sees all

[moontang]

The extortion seem to happen in Patts.  Bar owner goes behind the bar for coffee... cost him 50k.  OTOH, up in CM, people openly recruit teachers for part time jobs, with no chance of a WP involved.. and many farang advertise they are looking for private gigs, which in itself is likely illegal.. A friend built an entire subdivision and once he was completely inside, and out of sight, he did tons of work himself, including quality control on the Thai crew... never even close to a problem.. but he also paid 15000 per month for security.