O/A visa and insurance experience today

[moontang]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

So does "people with OAs issued before 31 Oct" include people on extension of stay on ground of retirement with old OA visa (in my case late 2015) or does it mean just those still on an OA visa or its one-year extension?

What I see is entry is not the problem, but you will have a tough time getting ad extension...was the catch all for TM30, too, but some were dinged doing 90 day reports..none were denied entry.

[mfd101]

OK, my fault - I had forgotten to distinguish between entry & renewal.

 

So renewal is where the problem lies (as currently understood). I'm not up for renewal till October 2020 so some time yet for matters to settle, evolve, be overthrown ... Fingers crossed! Vive la Révolution!

[moontang]

26 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

OK, my fault - I had forgotten to distinguish between entry & renewal.

 

So renewal is where the problem lies (as currently understood). I'm not up for renewal till October 2020 so some time yet for matters to settle, evolve, be overthrown ... Fingers crossed! Vive la Révolution!

Correct, but the newish rules on maintaining your 800k could apply to you, so I would be careful with that...congrats on good timing..mine is up next month, and looks like I will be buying a 12 month policy in the next few weeks.

[mfd101]

21 minutes ago, moontang said:

Correct, but the newish rules on maintaining your 800k could apply to you, so I would be careful with that...congrats on good timing..mine is up next month, and looks like I will be buying a 12 month policy in the next few weeks.

In life so much depends on timing ...

 

I'm using 65K per month method, using TW for transfers from Oz. Had no probs in early October when I renewed (despite 1 or 2 slightly fuzzy months). Made sure I had backup from previous year, including the then Oz Embassy stat dec & evidence of my superannuation & investments.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, moontang said:

Correct, but the newish rules on maintaining your 800k could apply to you, so I would be careful with that...congrats on good timing..mine is up next month, and looks like I will be buying a 12 month policy in the next few weeks.

Have you considered getting a Non O Visa instead.

[moontang]

50 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Have you considered getting a Non O Visa instead.

I weighed that, first looking at the cost of a trip to Savanaket..I estimated to run 12-15k..with no guarantees, and an unclear requirement for a letter I doubt I can get as someone 6 years away from social security.  Also, considered Penang..about the same costs...then it looked like a border bounce to Maesai would be easier..for maybe 8k...my estimates would be for budget, but not bare bones travel..I don't share bathrooms with lice infested backpackers, and don't like firetraps, either, otoh, paying Hilton or Marriot prices doesn't appeal, either.  But, as an American, I am all too familiar with the private insurance game or racket..to me the worst part is the requirement to have outpatient cover, which would cost more than going once a month to the doctor and bringing him a bottle of Hong Thong...add that to the chance of getting a 10 and 20% discount on subsequent years for being claim free, and it no way I would use it, unless I was already past the 20-40k deductible.  Otherwise, I can accept that I am in an insurance pool of my peers, the way it has been for 4-500 years..and even here, several days of care will cost plenty.  Just not sure how I will change my IMG travel medical..which I have been paying 100 usd per month..but for a Canadian, Brit, Oz  the equation is quite different, assuming they are maintaining their national coverage at home..which might be difficult if they spent 11 months per year here like I do.  Also, my dad, who retired from the computer business before windows was released, set up an annuity specifically so the kids will be covered..but certainly not 700 us per month like the Barry Obama policy would cost in the US..but 100-200 us per month. and in place till I am 65.  Not a trust funder..but the money is there, and not out of my monthly budget..my other thought is what will happen first, Vietnam figuring out it has become Thailand's dumping ground for the destitute, or Thailand figuring out thousands are switching to o visas to circumvent rules about insurance?  So, trying to give you a straight answer, but it is certainly not a one size fits all solution..age and country make it very different for different folks..We know there are no more O for retirement in the US...The older guys are required to buy a policy that doesn't exist and the younger guys need a letter they can't get....I believe it is looking better as a place for younger retirees, who would need cover at home, anyways, but those with national plans now have a compelling reason to go home, and I have a compelling reason to leave at 65..who knows, Medicare might be accepted here, by then.  Tricare works here..so you can't say it is not possible, and even a voucher plan like Romney had, would be a huge game changer.

Edited December 5, 2019 by moontang

[UKresonant]

33 minutes ago, moontang said:

I believe it is looking better as a place for younger retirees, who would need cover at home, anyways, but those with national plans now have a compelling reason to go home,

That does seem to be the current situation, twelve years of working in the UK, using every bit of leave to come here, whilst looking forward to staying here long term eventually. Then discovering those writing the script have declared that you are just a risk in their opinion, and hence incompatible, just waiting on the next chapter to be published.

Before they issued this insurance creation, they stopped issuing the non-O Multi in the UK just to make it potentially more inconvenient to stay attached to the national plan criteria. 

The UK system, is based on residency, if you are here more than ten and a quarter months per year, your surely are in a grey area....it is not savagely policed, the doctors are doctors with a cost pressure only to give adequate treatment with a smile, rather then 120% of what you need at perhaps 3 times the basic cost...

(Anyway one of the two very compelling reasons I'm here, has just finished his class, have to go...).

[Mansell]

On 11/6/2019 at 12:57 PM, Skallywag said:

Have not had to use my inpatient insurance, but have had good care as an outpatient at several different hospitals here in Thailand

My viewpoint is from the U.S. health care system, especially after the ACA was enacted (Obamacare)

Much higher prices than thailand and less coverage for the price. 

Am not quite old enough for Medicare but even then I will have to pay ~ 5000 baht a month and average wait time in the U.S. is 26-43 days to see a doctor. 

Very likely that Canada, UK, Australia, and the EU are better than the U.S. and Thailand in health care

Where do you get this rubbish from? I never waited for a doctor on Medicare....I actually had one apologies to me for keeping me waiting thirty minutes.....and he was a specialist. Also they take care of your eyes. Kaiser actually practices preventative medicine and encourage you to come in early for issues....it saves them money in the long run.

[el jefe]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

I weighed that, first looking at the cost of a trip to Savanaket..I estimated to run 12-15k..with no guarantees, and an unclear requirement for a letter I doubt I can get as someone 6 years away from social security.  Also, considered Penang..about the same costs...then it looked like a border bounce to Maesai would be easier..for maybe 8k...my estimates would be for budget, but not bare bones travel..I don't share bathrooms with lice infested backpackers, and don't like firetraps, either, otoh, paying Hilton or Marriot prices doesn't appeal, either.  But, as an American, I am all too familiar with the private insurance game or racket..to me the worst part is the requirement to have outpatient cover, which would cost more than going once a month to the doctor and bringing him a bottle of Hong Thong...add that to the chance of getting a 10 and 20% discount on subsequent years for being claim free, and it no way I would use it, unless I was already past the 20-40k deductible.  Otherwise, I can accept that I am in an insurance pool of my peers, the way it has been for 4-500 years..and even here, several days of care will cost plenty.  Just not sure how I will change my IMG travel medical..which I have been paying 100 usd per month..but for a Canadian, Brit, Oz  the equation is quite different, assuming they are maintaining their national coverage at home..which might be difficult if they spent 11 months per year here like I do.  Also, my dad, who retired from the computer business before windows was released, set up an annuity specifically so the kids will be covered..but certainly not 700 us per month like the Barry Obama policy would cost in the US..but 100-200 us per month. and in place till I am 65.  Not a trust funder..but the money is there, and not out of my monthly budget..my other thought is what will happen first, Vietnam figuring out it has become Thailand's dumping ground for the destitute, or Thailand figuring out thousands are switching to o visas to circumvent rules about insurance?  So, trying to give you a straight answer, but it is certainly not a one size fits all solution..age and country make it very different for different folks..We know there are no more O for retirement in the US...The older guys are required to buy a policy that doesn't exist and the younger guys need a letter they can't get....I believe it is looking better as a place for younger retirees, who would need cover at home, anyways, but those with national plans now have a compelling reason to go home, and I have a compelling reason to leave at 65..who knows, Medicare might be accepted here, by then.  Tricare works here..so you can't say it is not possible, and even a voucher plan like Romney had, would be a huge game changer.

I had the same reaction to a trip to Savanakhet. The time and money made that a deal breaker. But if you're talking about going to Mae Sai for a border run to come back Visa Exempt then convert that to an O, I would think you could do that for less than 8k, (fly to Chiang rai rt same day, bus to Mae sai and back).

But my real comment is about your IMG tavel insurance. My wife and I each  had full medical insurance through them. Separate plans. it was great until we needed to use it. my wife had 3 surgeries one year. They "randomly" asked her for proof that she was out of the country more than 183 days. She was. Then they raised her premium the next year from $4k to $22k! For me, I never put in a claim for anything other than routine preventative care. Then I had one medical problem where I saw the doctor 13 times. I put it all on one claim form. total was less than my annual premium. They paid the first 10 and refused the last 3 visits. Every visit was identical. I fought with them for over a year and then gave up and dropped them. IMG is no better than what I'm reading about the cheap Thai policies.

 

Anyway, I'm basically in the same situation as you but my O-A was issued in Sept 2019 so I still have 21 months to figure out what I'll do. But after 16 years here, it will likely be time to move on.

[Mapguy]

Hmmmm....

 

I have some sympathy for UKresonant's "dilemma," but there are reasons both in the UK and in Thailand for the increasing enforcement of regulations already in place that affect expatriates and the relatively new requirement for health insurance for some retirees in Thailand, which incidentally should have been anticipated.

 

"Insurance creation" ?  Well, yes, but there is a reason. For expatriates, the health insurance requirement is a self-inflicted wound. caused by too many expatriates doing runners on health care bills. The "solution" the Thai government came up with is, unfortunately, inadequate and hurtful to some, especially, for those over 74 years of age.  In the UK?  "Doctors are doctors," as he says, but who is taking advantage?  He'll note, of course, that in the coming election no party cares at all about his problem.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Mapguy
clarity

[moontang]

10 minutes ago, el jefe said:

I had the same reaction to a trip to Savanakhet. The time and money made that a deal breaker. But if you're talking about going to Mae Sai for a border run to come back Visa Exempt then convert that to an O, I would think you could do that for less than 8k, (fly to Chiang rai rt same day, bus to Mae sai and back).

But my real comment is about your IMG tavel insurance. My wife and I each  had full medical insurance through them. Separate plans. it was great until we needed to use it. my wife had 3 surgeries one year. They "randomly" asked her for proof that she was out of the country more than 183 days. She was. Then they raised her premium the next year from $4k to $22k! For me, I never put in a claim for anything other than routine preventative care. Then I had one medical problem where I saw the doctor 13 times. I put it all on one claim form. total was less than my annual premium. They paid the first 10 and refused the last 3 visits. Every visit was identical. I fought with them for over a year and then gave up and dropped them. IMG is no better than what I'm reading about the cheap Thai policies.

 

Anyway, I'm basically in the same situation as you but my O-A was issued in Sept 2019 so I still have 21 months to figure out what I'll do. But after 16 years here, it will likely be time to move on.

8000 if you include the 1900 you will pay to get the O.

[lamyai3]

8 hours ago, Mapguy said:

For expatriates, the health insurance requirement is a self-inflicted wound. caused by too many expatriates doing runners on health care bills.

This claim by the Ministry of Health and the hospital sector is in no way substantiated, and it's tiresome to hear people trotting it out as if it was fact. Unpaid bills are a problem no doubt, but the list of culprits almost certainly runs in the following order (with locals leading the way by a country mile).

 

1. Thai nationals, presenting insufficient ID or address information, and those who routinely default on credit card bills. 

2. Regional visitors, including migrant workers from neighbouring countries, again poorly documented. 

3. People on tourist visas or VE who skip the country. High risk taking demographic among younger travellers, with cases often reported in the news.

4. Long stay expats. These are by far the most heavily documented of all groups, the easiest to trace, and those with most to lose if defaulting on their bills. 

 

The complaints of high levels of unpaid bills from Non O-A visa holders are not backed up by any evidence, and highly unlikely. However, people on O-A's do serve as a useful control group for the insurance pilot project. And the pilot project itself serves as a useful excuse for the immigration reformists to cut the legs out from under one of the most favourable visa categories still remaining in 2019. 

[deej]

10 hours ago, Mapguy said:

Hmmmm....

 

 but there are reasons Thailand for the increasing enforcement of regulations already in place that affect expatriates and the relatively new requirement for health insurance for some retirees in Thailand, which incidentally should have been anticipated.

 

"Insurance creation" ?  Well, yes, but there is a reason. For expatriates, the health insurance requirement is a self-inflicted wound. caused by too many expatriates doing runners on health care bills. 

Been permanently retired here since 2001  and never saw the Medical cover insurance coming  or anticapated as u kindly put it.

Your #Insurance Creation#

remarks are clearly wrong.

Blaming Expats for doing runners on unpaid Medical services in Thailand which alledgely led this to the new Medcical cover etc etc now in place

If that is your case.

May i ask for you to post true stats supporting your views that  Expats doing runners on unpaid  Medical bills are the real culprits in creating this new medical cover etc etc

Many thks in advance

 

 

 

[moontang]

A number of the runners, may have actually died in the hospital, and if no one is going to pay body repatriation and funeral expenses running 3-500k THB, no one is going to pay their medical bill, either.  Perhaps, the Thais recognized that the problem is getting worse, and of course, most of the farang are from aging societies, and the Japanese, too.  Agreed, they aren't presenting us with hard facts, that they should be able to produce.  And, it does seem like the 20-40 year old bracket are the ones constantly crashing motorcycles and losing against mother nature.  Quite a few of the big bike tradgedies involve some of the 40-60 group, though.  I don't think I have ever been to CNX (that is an airport), without seeing a farang, who was obviously in a recent motorbike accident.  Probably safe to assume the Chinese numbers are worse, just based on scale..and much easier for them to do a runner.  They tend to do what they can get away with, criminal or not.  Probably best not to try and determine what the Thai government officials were rationalizing...if you could call it that.

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

This claim by the Ministry of Health and the hospital sector is in no way substantiated, and it's tiresome to hear people trotting it out as if it was fact. Unpaid bills are a problem no doubt, but the list of culprits almost certainly runs in the following order (with locals leading the way by a country mile).

 

1. Thai nationals, presenting insufficient ID or address information, and those who routinely default on credit card bills. 

2. Regional visitors, including migrant workers from neighbouring countries, again poorly documented. 

3. People on tourist visas or VE who skip the country. High risk taking demographic among younger travellers, with cases often reported in the news.

4. Long stay expats. These are by far the most heavily documented of all groups, the easiest to trace, and those with most to lose if defaulting on their bills. 

 

The complaints of high levels of unpaid bills from Non O-A visa holders are not backed up by any evidence, and highly unlikely. However, people on O-A's do serve as a useful control group for the insurance pilot project. And the pilot project itself serves as a useful excuse for the immigration reformists to cut the legs out from under one of the most favourable visa categories still remaining in 2019. 

The number 1 group are tourists in Phuket with no travel insurance what so ever. I read somewhere this year that about 38% of tourists from the UK have no insurance. 

[jayceenik]

So, Thai authorities think that a  farang on a O-A stay permit extensions with 800/400k in the bank and obviously firm intention to remain in LOS is going to make a runner on a Thailand hospital bill? And get on the next flight out? Never to come back? 

 

Defies all logic!

 

 

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, jayceenik said:

So, Thai authorities think that a  farang on a O-A stay permit extensions with 800/400k in the bank and obviously firm intention to remain in LOS is going to make a runner on a Thailand hospital bill? And get on the next flight out? Never to come back? 

 

Defies all logic!

 

 

The MoPH wants the government to think that retirees are the problem, when it's imo are tourists without any kind of travel insurance what so ever. Especially in Phuket. 

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

A number of the runners, may have actually died in the hospital, and if no one is going to pay body repatriation and funeral expenses running 3-500k THB, no one is going to pay their medical bill, either. 

Even in this case Thailand is far from be losing something

in a lot of cases the old chap has probably already paid during years for his wife\gf and thai family

large amount of money in house, car. land. education and health payments and so on.

Plus the money in bank, if nobody from the family come to claim it.

Globaly the payment balance, even with a ''death run'' is largely in favor of Thailand

[moontang]

8 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Even in this case Thailand is far from be losing something

in a lot of cases the old chap has probably already paid during years for his wife\gf and thai family

large amount of money in house, car. land. education and health payments and so on.

Plus the money in bank, if nobody from the family come to claim it.

Globaly the payment balance, even with a ''death run'' is largely in favor of Thailand

How many actually had the 800k in the bank?  Seems like that all started at Jomtien, while I agree Phuket seemed to be ground zero for uninsured Brits crashing motorcycles..would like to have seen them target that specifically.  Hard to fathom people learning to ride in Phuket, while on a drinking holiday.  Probably safer in just plain insane BKK.

[gamb00ler]

12 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Even in this case Thailand is far from be losing something

in a lot of cases the old chap has probably already paid during years for his wife\gf and thai family

large amount of money in house, car. land. education and health payments and so on.

Plus the money in bank, if nobody from the family come to claim it.

Globaly the payment balance, even with a ''death run'' is largely in favor of Thailand

It seems to me that hardly a soul in Thailand considers the good of the country as a whole.  It's almost exclusively me, me, me.

[MeePeeMai]

Let's not forget all the bad press, investigations and threats by the Thai government with regards to the Private Hospitals who were "overcharging" for their services and medications, promising fines and reforms only to do a 180 and give the green light to Private, as well as Government Hospitals, to charge foreigners anything they want.

 

Those retirees being forced to buy the approved Thai Health Insurance policies are probably going to start doing runners (for real) now after they see the overinflated hospital bill and then find out their claim was denied by their health insurance company, especially if one buys an expensive policy with high amount of coverage. 

 

That's like getting hit by a car and then run over by a truck... only to have your ambulance get hit by a train on the way to the hospital.  It just doesn't get much worse than that!

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

How many actually had the 800k in the bank?  Seems like that all started at Jomtien, while I agree Phuket seemed to be ground zero for uninsured Brits crashing motorcycles..would like to have seen them target that specifically.  Hard to fathom people learning to ride in Phuket, while on a drinking holiday.  Probably safer in just plain insane BKK.

What started in Jomtien? There's not even any hospitals there. If you read the papers, it was the government hospitals in Phuket that reported about rising costs for non-paid hospital bills. Especially at Vachira Hospital. 

[el jefe]

I don't think any of us have enough info to make even an educated guess as to who is doing a runner on their medical bills.

I have friends in all age groups but my experience is that it's the retired crowd that has the big medical bills. I have 4 friends here in their 60's that had to set up a payment plan with the hospitals as they couldn't settle their bills when discharged. 2 from bike accidents, 1 from a motorbike accident, and the 4th from a heart attack. One has left the country. I don't know if he paid off the b
ill or if he plans to return. I have no idea whether they're here on original O or O-A visas or what their extension is based on.

I also think that many posters here are overstating our value to the Thai economy. Most of my friends aren't spending anywhere near 800k baht a year and a lot of that money just gets exchanged among farangs. they go to farang owned bars and restaurants and patronize farang owned businesses. Some even have farang landlords. here's an example of the good life in Chiang Mai:

rent --15,000/month

food and entertainment and everyday living expenses -- 50,000/ month when in Thailand

Travel expenses are much more but that's spent outside of Thailand.

A new refrigerator -- 30,000 baht, but most of that goes to China.

So, total of less than 800,000 baht a year. For 2 people.

I have no idea what it costs to live in Phuket, Hua Hin, or Bangkok, and how much of the money goes into the Thai economy, but there are an awful lot of retirees in CM.

 

[Mapguy]

6 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

This claim by the Ministry of Health and the hospital sector is in no way substantiated, and it's tiresome to hear people trotting it out as if it was fact. Unpaid bills are a problem no doubt, but the list of culprits almost certainly runs in the following order (with locals leading the way by a country mile).

 

1. Thai nationals, presenting insufficient ID or address information, and those who routinely default on credit card bills. 

2. Regional visitors, including migrant workers from neighbouring countries, again poorly documented. 

3. People on tourist visas or VE who skip the country. High risk taking demographic among younger travellers, with cases often reported in the news.

4. Long stay expats. These are by far the most heavily documented of all groups, the easiest to trace, and those with most to lose if defaulting on their bills. 

 

The complaints of high levels of unpaid bills from Non O-A visa holders are not backed up by any evidence, and highly unlikely. However, people on O-A's do serve as a useful control group for the insurance pilot project. And the pilot project itself serves as a useful excuse for the immigration reformists to cut the legs out from under one of the most favourable visa categories still remaining in 2019. 

The grouping above is reasonable enough, I suppose.  All these groups receive care, and some are unable to pay or avoid payment, but what we are talking about is the problem involving foreigners and the requirement for health insurance for some of them.

 

I used the term "doing a runner."  That was a quick and incomplete reference to the problem, and I apologize for that. It is only part of the problem the health care people have been dealing with. I speculate that the runners are primarily tourists.  I should have added those with insufficient funds who attempt to pay their bills but are unable to cover their health care costs. 

 

I referred in particular to the British expatriates who have been hit hard by the decreasing value of pound to the bhat.  Many, unfortunately, came to Thailand years ago with what has ended up to be insufficient funds. Some British aren't the only ones who have this problem --- especially as expatriates from other countries also get older and incur more health care costs.

 

Some, to my knowledge, do run from their bills back to the NHS.  Some die.  Others are stuck.  Many use up the 800k in the bank.  Others never really had it there in the first place.  It is an open secret that for years many foreigners, not just Brits, were giving false affidavits about income or dodging financial requirements in other ways. The UK, the USA, and Australia will no longer do affidavits.

 

One partial solution is to require health insurance focusing on the old folks using NON-OA visas and extensions of stay. This solution landing on one visa class is ill-designed, to be polite about it!  But it is what the government has come up with so far.  Above I mentioned tourists as a problem.  My guess is that a health care fee to pay for that was not acceptable to TAT, but that discussion is for a another day.

 

This discussion, "O/A visa and insurance experience today," is off track unless someone has actual new experience today to report that is relevant.  I suggest including discussion of experiences with the accredited Thai insurance companies on the longstay.TGIA website.  That would be helpful.

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, el jefe said:

I don't think any of us have enough info to make even an educated guess as to who is doing a runner on their medical bills.

I have friends in all age groups but my experience is that it's the retired crowd that has the big medical bills. I have 4 friends here in their 60's that had to set up a payment plan with the hospitals as they couldn't settle their bills when discharged. 2 from bike accidents, 1 from a motorbike accident, and the 4th from a heart attack. One has left the country. I don't know if he paid off the b
ill or if he plans to return. I have no idea whether they're here on original O or O-A visas or what their extension is based on.

I also think that many posters here are overstating our value to the Thai economy. Most of my friends aren't spending anywhere near 800k baht a year and a lot of that money just gets exchanged among farangs. they go to farang owned bars and restaurants and patronize farang owned businesses. Some even have farang landlords. here's an example of the good life in Chiang Mai:

rent --15,000/month

food and entertainment and everyday living expenses -- 50,000/ month when in Thailand

Travel expenses are much more but that's spent outside of Thailand.

A new refrigerator -- 30,000 baht, but most of that goes to China.

So, total of less than 800,000 baht a year. For 2 people.

I have no idea what it costs to live in Phuket, Hua Hin, or Bangkok, and how much of the money goes into the Thai economy, but there are an awful lot of retirees in CM.

 

How long do you think the average western tourist stays in Thailand? It's about 2 weeks. Do you think all of them spends a lot of money? The answer is no. So, I think there are many expats here that spends a hell of a lot more money than a simple tourist. And many tourists doesn't show up year after year, but we are here. 

[MeePeeMai]

4 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

How long do you think the average western tourist stays in Thailand? It's about 2 weeks. Do you think all of them spends a lot of money? The answer is no. So, I think there are many expats here that spends a hell of a lot more money than a simple tourist. And many tourists doesn't show up year after year, but we are here. 

Not to mention we BUY (not rent) motorbikes, cars, truck, condos, houses, land for our woman and kids, insurance policies for our vehicles, shop here year round (with no relief from VAT), buy furniture and appliances and the list goes on and on, all year round and year after year.

[Max69xl]

12 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Not to mention we BUY (not rent) motorbikes, cars, truck, condos, houses, land for our woman and kids, insurance policies for our vehicles, shop here year round (with no relief from VAT), buy furniture and appliances and the list goes on and on, all year round and year after year.

I have spent many million baht during my years here. I think I've done my part to stabilize the thai economy. ????

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

large amount of money in house, car. land. education and health payments and so on.

Yes, and all that gets left behind if they can get rid of him before he becomes a burden.

[MeePeeMai]

10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, and all that gets left behind if they can get rid of him before he becomes a burden.

Sad but so true.

[moontang]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

What started in Jomtien? There's not even any hospitals there. If you read the papers, it was the government hospitals in Phuket that reported about rising costs for non-paid hospital bills. Especially at Vachira Hospital. 

Jomtien is or was one of the more crooked immigration offices, and agents were more common there, than anywhere else.  Between the liar letters and the multitude of agents promising anything..it created an environment rife with dishonesty.  Too many trying to bite the apple, and the letters were nullified, and note, they appear to be the only office requiring flow up balance checks.  Chiang Mai isn't far behind.  In both places, retirees, who actually had the nice chunk of money in the bank were the exception.  Many of the injectors simply don't have it..kind of obvious.  Just like a good portion of the insurance injectors don't have it, either, but it will be a pretty big burden on the 75+ crowd.  Old people can be just as selfish as any milineal, or even kindergartner, for that matter.