Jomtien Immigration Health Insurance Now Required for O-A Extensions

[CALSinCM]

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Consider buying a Thai qualifying insurance that has a large deductible on it. Apparently they are out there now. An insurance broker like AA might help. The deductible will bring the cost down. Your USA insurance would be your defacto one, the Thai one, simply to enable the retirement extension. You may find a policy where the two can work together too.

Thanks for useful feedback. 

So here we go: How many expats with valid and adequate foreign issued insurance, but not acceptable to Thai authorities, will be required to shell out the equivalent of $1000 or $2000 USD for essentially worthless Thai-issued junk insurance for the 'privilege' of staying in Thailand. 
And for those who insist that the Thai immigration officials 'have it wrong' about foreign insurance - well, like all the other rules that are interpreted by a specific I/O or immigration office the bottom line is like this: If they refuse to issue you permission to stay, what difference does it make if they are 'right' or 'wrong.'  Who is going to correct them???

 

Tell me that this whole dog and pony show isn't about lining the pockets of Thai based insurance companies who have been given the green-light to milk the discretionary assets of foreigners.  Imho it's predaceous and quite unabashedly so, for example issuing a 400K/40K THB policy with a 300K THB deductible?  Why not a 399K THB deductible? 

[CALSinCM]

9 hours ago, Momofarang said:

This is if you want to make any sense of this Thai shamozzle, otherwise just see it as a 50k to 120k yearly bribe you have to pay to stay in this <deleted>hole.

Actually the question that expats should be asking is, "What is so special about Thailand that makes it worth shelling out "a 50k to 120k yearly bribe" just for the 'privilege' of staying?"

[JESSVANPELT]

10 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

Why not just get a Non Imm O visa, I got mine 10 years ago in Bangkok. These don't need insurance?

100% Spot on.

Application for the Non-Immigrant O Visa and extension in Thailand:

It is required that you apply for a 90-day initial non-immigrant visa from the Thai embassy or consulate in your home country prior to your application for a retirement visa in Thailand

You will have to wait for 60 days to be in Thailand before you can file your retirement visa application at the immigration office or you must be on the last 30 days of your current permit to stay.

Proof of address in Thailand (utility bills, rental agreement, etc.) is also required.

Note:The foreigner on a visa exemption stamp or a tourist visa can still apply for a retirement visa given that the foreigner has already met the requirements for the non-immigrant O visa and for the one year extension visa applications. This can be done at the immigration office in Thailand.

[LivinLOS]

9 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

Every time I see a new user just come to the site and say he need insurance.  This is not the first time a troll has done this here in the last few weeks.

However also true is the demographic of older retiree population are many times ones not as frequently online.

[jimn]

As my topic was closed down as a repeat topic, I will repost here in case it is missed. Those of you doubting the OP. Jomtien immigration have posted this notice by the retirement desk 8. Anyone trying to renew their extension based on an original OA visa requires insurance. This was posted by the Pattaya City Expats Club.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

You cannot  make a rule that for some people is impossible to achieve. That would make no sense. Even for Thailand.

Of course they can.. and do.. routinely.. 

 

You assume the continued stay of aged persons is something they need or want to ensure.. 

[Bournville]

This is the fundamental issue I have with Thailand's fine immigration people 555.  Each office. each officer.. makes up their own rules however they feel that day. 

 

The OP describes a situation that was never stated in the Sept 28 ? police directive regarding the insurance for OA visas. I thought.. or was it stated..that it ONLY applies to the original application. 

 

Its difficult to plan for long term residency with such nonsense. There are many here who tell me "oh come on it only takes a few hours year to extend". Utter codswallop. How on earth can anyone say this with such a moving target?

 

 

[LivinLOS]

9 minutes ago, Bournville said:

The OP describes a situation that was never stated in the Sept 28 ? police directive regarding the insurance for OA visas. I thought.. or was it stated..that it ONLY applies to the original application. 

Please explain how you come to that conclusion ?? 

 

 

[mosan]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

Yeah maybe.

 

Had a grand total of 3 posts.

 

I did mention before the likelihood of someone mantaining archives of aged usernames.

 

For example, another thread currently running today called "Getting rejected", was started by an username with a total of 4 posts since 2016.

 

Actually, these posts were all or most made within the last 12 hours or so. So these "people", they never posted in years, just watched the forum.

 

Which could indicate the username factory was established many years ago ????

 

As for people that posted in the past then stopped posting, and then restarted, it's easy to see they are genuine. They have a low community reputation but many posts prior to this function being added to this forum.

I understand what you are saying, but it may or may not be true.  For example, I moved here in 2000, I've been reading these forums since I first discovered it probably around 2003-though I'm really not sure.  However, I finally decided to start posting just recently. I may have had one or two post prior to the last several years, but the reaction of those who don't want to hear what you have to say just turned me off.  The nature of these forums is to attack any and everything regardless of how much knowledge a person may have--or the lack thereof.  Many may think its trolling, or something along those lines.  I just think people are in panic mode...as well they should be.

[flexomike]

43 minutes ago, JESSVANPELT said:

100% Spot on.

Application for the Non-Immigrant O Visa and extension in Thailand:

It is required that you apply for a 90-day initial non-immigrant visa from the Thai embassy or consulate in your home country prior to your application for a retirement visa in Thailand

You will have to wait for 60 days to be in Thailand before you can file your retirement visa application at the immigration office or you must be on the last 30 days of your current permit to stay.

Proof of address in Thailand (utility bills, rental agreement, etc.) is also required.

Note:The foreigner on a visa exemption stamp or a tourist visa can still apply for a retirement visa given that the foreigner has already met the requirements for the non-immigrant O visa and for the one year extension visa applications. This can be done at the immigration office in Thailand.

just fine until they decide insurance for O's also

[Mutt Daeng]

12 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Please explain how you come to that conclusion ?? 

 

 

You just beat me to it @LivinLOS

Edited November 8, 2019 by Mutt Daeng

[meand]

9 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

Good questions.

 

OP, what/who is the source of your statement that Jomtien now requires proof of medical insurance for those renewing retirement extensions? Only one source?  

I don't. Why would I think that?

 

This makes perfect sense, if you want to get a certain segment of the population out, go after the unattached retirees. 

 

[LivinLOS]

Just now, Mutt Daeng said:

You just beat me to it LivinLOS

Laughable ho so many folks are maintaining 'the law says' and 'why cant they read thier own instructions'.. When clearly its not the Thais who are being hard of comprehension. 

And so many farangs make out Thais are a bit dim. 

[Mutt Daeng]

53 minutes ago, JESSVANPELT said:

100% Spot on.

Application for the Non-Immigrant O Visa and extension in Thailand:

It is required that you apply for a 90-day initial non-immigrant visa from the Thai embassy or consulate in your home country prior to your application for a retirement visa in Thailand

You will have to wait for 60 days to be in Thailand before you can file your retirement visa application at the immigration office or you must be on the last 30 days of your current permit to stay.

Proof of address in Thailand (utility bills, rental agreement, etc.) is also required.

Note:The foreigner on a visa exemption stamp or a tourist visa can still apply for a retirement visa given that the foreigner has already met the requirements for the non-immigrant O visa and for the one year extension visa applications. This can be done at the immigration office in Thailand.

It's not true that you have to get your initial Non-O visa from your home country. You can get it from nearby countries.

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, CALSinCM said:

Actually the question that expats should be asking is, "What is so special about Thailand that makes it worth shelling out "a 50k to 120k yearly bribe" just for the 'privilege' of staying?"

 

i'm not sure they want us to stay (well some of us anyway) thats why they keep putting the price up 

 

[BertM]

13 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

It's not true that you have to get your initial Non-O visa from your home country. You can get it from nearby countries.

You are correct... You can also get a Non-O visa at Immigration within Thailand. I got my Non-O visa at Jomtien.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

In another thread a couple of BMs & @Sheryl have said that Insurance brokers have told them that you cannot have a policy with deductibles, not sure whether this is no deductibles at all or none that would mean your cover would be less than 400k/40K

 

That was a temporary misunderstanding between Sheryl and the Pacific Cross folks she was speaking with at the time. She had further conversation with them, and later came back here and posted in the relevant thread that Pacific Cross had clarified that deductibles on their O-A certified policies are FINE and will not prevent O-A certification.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I have not heard that yet, but of course it is possible. But I saw examples of policies with deductibles that were claimed to be suitable for O-A Visa/Extension insurance, so at this time am not sure what the status is.  Obviously the cover much reach 400/40k, as that is what is specified, but I have yet to see 'rules' that exclude deductibles.... and also have already asked the question if Thai immigration have signed off on such policies. Brokers don't make any immigration rules. 

 

What a mess. 

 Teavee didn't catch the subsequent correction on that subject. See my prior post above.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That was a temporary misunderstanding between Sheryl and the Pacific Cross folks she was speaking with at the time. She had further conversation with them, and later came back here and posted in the relevant thread that Pacific Cross had clarified that deductibles on their O-A certified policies are FINE and will not prevent O-A certification.

 

 

 

Yep. I know that PC's Premium and Premium Plus plans have varying deductibles and are O-A compliant.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

Yep. I know that PC's Premium and Premium Plus plans have varying deductibles and are O-A compliant.

 

Almost all of Pacific Cross' general public policies (from Standard Extra and above) have been approved as O-A compliant. I believe, various deductibles are available on all of those, ranging from 40K, 100K, 200K and 300K per year maximum. Depending on the deductible level chosen, they will reduce their standard premium rate anywhere from 25 to 50%.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

My next retirement extension (based on an original O-A many years ago) is not due until next August. If I leave and come back, as I plan to do next month, I have to arrange Thai insurance before I leave in order to gain re-entry. So, based on your above information, I cannot wait until next extension renewal to get the Thai insurance. (Insert colourful unhappy language here.) Let's see what others with recent experience on re-entry have to say. 

 

I think...

 

.... there's a growing number of posts from folks with past O-As who are now on extensions of stay being told by Immigration that insurance will be required when they next go to apply for future extensions.

 

... it's too early to tell right now whether Immigration at the airports is going to start requiring insurance now for past O-A visa holders currently on extensions of stay when they re-enter the country prior to their next extension application. I believe @Sheryl has been saying she does NOT expect Immigration to do that.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, pontious said:

You cannot  make a rule that for some people is impossible to achieve. That would make no sense. Even for Thailand.

 

You mean like...requiring health insurance for an entire population of expats, when there are absolutely no certified Thai insurance companies willing to write new policies for folks beyond a certain age??? (75 I think...)

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, CALSinCM said:

So here we go: How many expats with valid and adequate foreign issued insurance, but not acceptable to Thai authorities, will be required to shell out the equivalent of $1000 or $2000 USD for essentially worthless Thai-issued junk insurance for the 'privilege' of staying in Thailand. 
And for those who insist that the Thai immigration officials 'have it wrong' about foreign insurance - well, like all the other rules that are interpreted by a specific I/O or immigration office the bottom line is like this: If they refuse to issue you permission to stay, what difference does it make if they are 'right' or 'wrong.'  Who is going to correct them???

 

One of the interesting and as yet unanswered questions in this whole mess, AFAIK, is....

 

For O-A applicants, the Thai embassies and consulates abroad are saying generally thus far that they will accept appropriate foreign insurance policies, if the applicant gets the certified foreign insurance certificate signed by their insurer.  And they'll make an insurance notation in the applicant's passport when they do the O-A visa stamp. So that's for the initial use and first year of an O-A visa...

 

But thus far at least, given we're only a week in, I'd say it's entirely unknown whether Thai Immigration will accept said same foreign insurance, even with a certificate, when the O-A holder tries to make entries beyond the initial first year of that O-A visa.... And there's an early potential indication they won't, as the TGIA website itself says foreign insurance will only be accepted for the FIRST year (not clear if that means first year of the visa, or first year of the new program).

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I received feedback today, and I tried to be sure it was as I interpreted....

 

Someone arriving at Swampy, who had a re-entry permit, on a retirement extension that originated  from an O-A some years old, was asked to show insurance. This seems to be a complete set relating to O-A Visas now. All one could do in such circumstances is accept a 30 day..... and then best to convert it to a Non-Imm-O and start again. (Unless one wants to buy insurance at the airport!) Anyone hear of this?

I have not heard this and there have been several first hand reports to the contrary.

 

No possible reason for this as a RE permit does not generate a new permission of stay.

 

The police order explicitly states existing permissions of stay will not be affected.

 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

57 minutes ago, BertM said:

You are correct... You can also get a Non-O visa at Immigration within Thailand. I got my Non-O visa at Jomtien.

However it appears not if your on an OA class visa generated permission of stay.

 

While it may be possible in some cases, it isnt in this particular case.

[pontious]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Of course they can.. and do.. routinely.. 

 

You assume the continued stay of aged persons is something they need or want to ensure.. 

Do give me some examples where they have changed the rules and there is no escape route.

[Peter Denis]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

One of the interesting and as yet unanswered questions in this whole mess, AFAIK, is....

 

For O-A applicants, the Thai embassies and consulates abroad are saying generally thus far that they will accept appropriate foreign insurance policies, if the applicant gets the certified foreign insurance certificate signed by their insurer.  So that's for the initial use and first year of an O-A visa...

 

But thus far at least, given we're only a week in, I'd say it's entirely unknown whether Thai Immigration will accept said same foreign insurance, even with a certificate, when the O-A holder tries to make entries beyond the initial first year of that O-A visa.... And there's a pretty good indication they won't, as the TGIA website itself says foreign insurance will only be accepted for the FIRST year (not clear if that means first year of the visa, or first year of the new program).

 

The Police Order specifically states that ONLY thai health insurance is allowed.

Previously when on OA and you exited/re-entered the country during the 1st year you were stamped in for a full year.  This won't be true anymore.  You will now get stamped in for the validity of your health-insurance.

That means that even if you have foreign health-insurance for the first year, in order to be stamped in for a full year after re-entering you would also need thai health-insurance for the second year.  E.g. exiting and re-entering after 3 months, without thai health-insurance for second year, you will only be stamped in for 9 months. 

[pontious]

34 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You mean like...requiring health insurance for an entire population of expats, when there are absolutely no certified Thai insurance companies willing to write new policies for folks beyond a certain age??? (75 I think...)

 

That is exactly what I mean -re-read my post. I said exactly what you have said.

[lkv]

13 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The Police Order specifically states that ONLY thai health insurance is allowed.

Previously when on OA and you exited/re-entered the country during the 1st year you were stamped in for a full year.  This won't be true anymore.  You will now get stamped in for the validity of your health-insurance.

That means that even if you have foreign health-insurance for the first year, in order to be stamped in for a full year after re-entering you would also need thai health-insurance for the second year.  E.g. exiting and re-entering after 3 months, without thai health-insurance for second year, you will only be stamped in for 9 months. 

Yeah so what will probably happen is this: 

People on non O-As issued before Oct 31, their entries would be processed without requiring insurance.

 

Another report a few hours ago confirmed that no insurance was asked for at Suvarnabhumi when re-entering on a Non O-A on Facebook (Thai visa advice).

 

So they will just guide themselves from the adnotations on visas issued after October 31.

 

The number of those will be zero, so not a big headache for the IO's.

 

Well, let's not say zero. As many as the non O-X, probably.

 

We might get a report here on the forum of one of those, if we are lucky, within the next few years. (To see how a stamp put on a non O-A issued past Oct 31 looks like).

Edited November 8, 2019 by lkv

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The Police Order specifically states that ONLY thai health insurance is allowed.

Previously when on OA and you exited/re-entered the country during the 1st year you were stamped in for a full year.  This won't be true anymore.  You will now get stamped in for the validity of your health-insurance.

That means that even if you have foreign health-insurance for the first year, in order to be stamped in for a full year after re-entering you would also need thai health-insurance for the second year.  E.g. exiting and re-entering after 3 months, without thai health-insurance for second year, you will only be stamped in for 9 months. 

 

I think what you're saying is going to prove correct beyond the initial first year of an O-A visa...

 

I was just trying to clarify that the Thai embassies and consulates WILL accept foreign insurance with the required certificate when someone goes to apply for a new O-A, whether it's their first one, or another one on top of others previously issued.

 

So perhaps, someone making annual trips back to their home country could re-apply for a new O-A each and every year and continue to show proof of their foreign insurance -- provided they let their prior O-A expire and didn't extend with a re-entry permit.