A bridge to far: retirement hoops to jump through

[Expattaff1308]

I can see the logic for the initial OA as you can gain entry into the country with having to show funds here for upto 2 years, however those on extensions of stay have to show sufficient funds, and since the recent rule changes (if using cash in bank) to keep 400k in the account for the full year rising to 800k 3 months before and after the extension, one would think that would meet the 400k they require in insurance, was this their initial thought?

The question has yet to be answered what about those unable to get insurance due to age, pre conditions or just too expensive.

Initially they said when this first raised its ugly head that 450k in the bank would cover this but nothing since.

As we all know premiums peek after your 65th birthday and Im sure even when paid my experience with Ins Companies is they wriggle in an attempt not to pay out if they can.

The authorities made a big play on expats not paying their health bill yet the hospitals claim it is tourists who can easily skip the country while the expat returns to his Thai home.

I guess it's a case of wait and see but little thought has been given to this when it is made retrospect for those whose entered on an OA years before, it seems illogical while those on a tourist converted to Non O & Non Os remain on extensions insurance free.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Expattaff1308

[CALSinCM]

7 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

more importantly how can anyone leave their long term security in the hands of a for-profit private company. if they stop renewing your insurance after a certain age.. its home time. and i'm damn sure there will be a clause in the fine print saying they can do exactly that

 

 

...or if they stop renewing your insurance because you had the audacity to actually file a claim that they can't find a valid reason to reject. 

[sfokevin]

I totally agree with the OP... Been here +10 years, I once thought that I could live my life out here but now I feel all long term visa options are built on quicksand... When the other shoe drops on the Non-O visas I am out of here...

Edited November 8, 2019 by sfokevin

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

That's not an (easy) option for many here.

curious.. why not ?? 

[piston broke]

 

Bloke down our way used one of them "Visa Agents" ...

 

in and out in 10 mins ... quick trip up to immigration for a photo.....

 

picked up passport from the agents the following day- Extension stamped in - Job's a  good 'un .......

 

no bank letters, letters from Embassy, waiting at immigration for hours or any of that saftness - just ability to hand over 12,500 Baht ....

 

Maybe the OP should give it a go ?

.

 

[holy cow cm]

2 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I can see the logic for the initial OA as you can gain entry into the country with having to show funds here for upto 2 years, however those on extensions of stay have to show sufficient funds, and since the recent rule changes (if using cash in bank) to keep 400k in the account for the full year rising to 800k 3 months before and after the extension, one would think that would meet the 400k they require in insurance, was this their initial thought?

The question has yet to be answered what about those unable to get insurance due to age, pre conditions or just too expensive.

Initially they said when this first raised its ugly head that 450k in the bank would cover this but nothing since.

As we all know premiums peek after your 65th birthday and Im sure even when paid my experience with Ins Companies is they wriggle in an attempt not to pay out if they can.

The authorities made a big play on expats not paying their health bill yet the hospitals claim it is tourists who can easily skip the country while the expat returns to his Thai home.

I guess it's a case of wait and see but little thought has been given to this when it is made retrospect for those whose entered on an OA years before, it seems illogical while those on a tourist converted to Non O & Non Os remain on extensions insurance free.

Just because you have an OA don't try to buck the O's. The OA's have the most retiree on them and it will be you guys who kill the O cat by jumping or talking too much which will make life just as bad for everyone else. Any of the such, I am on the O and I can afford all if I have to and jump those extra idiotic hoops. 

 

Honestly, the real deal is they are looking at a cash cow to fund their underfunded brown envelopes. And honestly they don't give a rats behind about us. We are like used up garbage to them that helped build their country. Now on to the Chinese and the Indians. 

 

 

[david555]

10 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

The direction this visa process is headed should run up a red flag for anyone whose commonsense is still more important in making lifs's decisions than a Thai female's honey-spot...

 

Or, hang around and see what other asinine visa schemes they can come up with to rid the country of Western influence...

 

It has become more than just visas...there is a cultural shift going on that is going to make living in Thailand uncomfortable for white ex-pats...IMHO...????

That change of Gov.policies and the dreadful exchange rate (partly as a Brexit result ) made me change my plans for buying a condo with money already transferred in to Thailand long time ago on exchange rate 47.50/bht  …. so now I don't have to cry about the hopeless exchange rates for € , as my incoming money never reach Thailand anymore and stay's where a Euro keep being a full € same for the GBP , talking the remaining with me in +/- May 2002 as that is now my leaving plan if all stay the same overhere …. or another general maybe …?

Edited November 8, 2019 by david555

[Matzzon]

10 hours ago, JTXR said:

1) I can no longer get an income affidavit from my embassy (even though I can show valid evidence of official state pension income)
2) CW now wants a TM-30 either from landlords, family, friends, or myself every time I change where I spend the night.
3) TI may in future want me to purchase overpriced and essentially worthless health cover (I'm over 65) the next time I extend my permission to stay.

1. Not a problem. The change is for safety reasons, due to that it was in some countries possible to fake the income. If you can live up to current rules, everything is ok.

2. According to the latest meeting, TM30 is only needed if returning from a visit outside the country. Information is from the head office.

3. No need. Just change to Non-O instead of Non-O-A, and there is yet no mandatory insurance. Although, you should have one in a foreign country to be considered a responsible person.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

more importantly how can anyone leave their long term security in the hands of a for-profit private company. if they stop renewing your insurance after a certain age.. its home time. and i'm damn sure there will be a clause in the fine print saying they can do exactly that

 

I think, most of the Thai insurers have company policies that you can know UP-FRONT telling you that they'll only renew current policy holders up to XX years of age... And sometimes, those cutoff ages aren't very old at all!  However, anyone doing proper investigation should know the answer to that with their insurer going in.

 

But of course, beyond that, there's also the premiums issue, where once people start to get into their 70s, 80s and beyond -- even if you have an insurer that's willing to cover you at that age as an ongoing policyholder -- the annual premiums get to be tremendously and excessively expensive, regardless of whether the person has had any claims history or medical problems or not.

[john terry1001]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

4 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

That's not an (easy) option for many here.

curious.. why not ?? 

Basically, you can't get a change of visa from O-A to O from immigration within Thailand. You must first exit Thailand to get a non O which isn't available to many people (finance requirement documentation for example) and many would find the same issues if re-entering on a VE/tourist visa and applying for a change of visa to a non O at immigration.

[Expattaff1308]

27 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Just because you have an OA don't try to buck the O's. The OA's have the most retiree on them and it will be you guys who kill the O cat by jumping or talking too much which will make life just as bad for everyone else. Any of the such, I am on the O and I can afford all if I have to and jump those extra idiotic hoops. 

 

Honestly, the real deal is they are looking at a cash cow to fund their underfunded brown envelopes. And honestly they don't give a rats behind about us. We are like used up garbage to them that helped build their country. Now on to the Chinese and the Indians. 

 

 

Whose bucking the Os Im just pointing out the illogical reasons for insurance made retrospect to those who arrived on OAs MANY years ago

[david555]

50 minutes ago, piston broke said:

 

Bloke down our way used one of them "Visa Agents" ...

 

in and out in 10 mins ... quick trip up to immigration for a photo.....

 

picked up passport from the agents the following day- Extension stamped in - Job's a  good 'un .......

 

no bank letters, letters from Embassy, waiting at immigration for hours or any of that saftness - just ability to hand over 12,500 Baht ....

 

Maybe the OP should give it a go ?

.

 

Yes Thailand claims fighting corruption …. by promoting it ...

[Expattaff1308]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

Yes Thailand claims fighting corruption …. by promoting it ...

Does that include the Insurance Docs

[john terry1001]

3 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

it seems illogical while those on a tourist converted to Non O & Non Os remain on extensions insurance free

Yes, some can convert from a tourist to non O at immigration, while others go to a nearby country to get a non O, but a non O qualification is/should be very restricted now. Maybe this option has been lax up to now but, if this option is abused and the application numbers increase significantly, how long do you think it will take to close that loophole. In the long run, all that will happen is stopping that abuse will make it extremely difficult for people who genuinely need to use that option at present.

Edited November 8, 2019 by john terry1001

[david555]

32 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

 

Does that include the Insurance Docs

You did not see my reply  is on the visa agents topic from that poster , as really desperate ones are forced to give in on that .

 

second thought's …. insurance is needed if available on normal conditions …… when making a law  it should be possible to follow it , as many stop insuring at 60/65 …. and so just check who sits in the boards from those Thai company's …. nuff said ?

 

 

BTW I have a European insurance (AXA ) who even repatriate me back home , funeral or transporting dead body to Home country following wish , bail also forseen , each incident up to 12500 € , so if bill expected to high ….repatriation Each incident covered 12500€ 

 

But it must be one of Thailand who feed the rulers pocket...….

 

That insurance only available if person from a E.U. nanny state …..as so they can always repatriate and put you on national Gove health care …..  

 

 AND I AM NOT ONE FORCED (yet ?...) to do as "non o" already    years insured, and 8 years much more than 800K on bank ….but I really have it with them as it is going further and further 

Edited November 8, 2019 by david555

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

curious.. why not ?? 

Because they can't afford to meet the financial requirements. They really should drop the nonsensical dream of living in a tropical 'paradise' when they simply cannot afford it. Sorry to sound harsh but it needs to be said.

Many posters are saying they are going to Cambodia based on what may happen to the Non O visa situation. My guess is they are broke too and try to save face by blaming it on an as yet non existent situation. Good luck to them. They will need it.

[Genericnic]

2 hours ago, sfokevin said:

I totally agree with the OP... Been here +10 years, I once thought that I could live my life out here but now I feel all long term visa options are built on quicksand... When the other shoe drops on the Non-O visas I am out of here...

Agreed. I'll be doing a non-O based on retirement in January when I return from the US and, with an extension, I think I have one more year to get things sorted out and researched as to where I will head when they add an insurance requirement to non-O visas. At least I was smart enough to see the inherent instability of Thailand and didn't buy any property that I will have to get rid of. I've been here almost 9 years and was planning to be here for quite a few more. I'll miss Thailand.

 

David

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

1. Not a problem. The change is for safety reasons, due to that it was in some countries possible to fake the income. If you can live up to current rules, everything is ok.

2. According to the latest meeting, TM30 is only needed if returning from a visit outside the country. Information is from the head office.

3. No need. Just change to Non-O instead of Non-O-A, and there is yet no mandatory insurance. Although, you should have one in a foreign country to be considered a responsible person.

Consider the insurance at his age. And with pre-existing conditions it is not going to happen. Period! Change to O and screw it up for all the rest? Keep on talking the flip and jump Matzzon.

 

When I am touched by the hit on Non O I will be not so happy because of all OF you late procrastinators (or the ones you Matzzon are trying to be the Moses of) just waited until stupidly it became into signed law even knowing it was into legislation prior and going to move forward. Fully Ignorant! 

 

But because of all you ignorant people or the now almighty to do this oh my god jump and save me to the Non O (woe is me), then you are inevitably sending doom to all the rest as you are intimately to blame rushing under a last minute change. Be more insightful and intelligent about matters and spare everyone. If you want to say, to hell with me and it is all about you, then I hope you get what is deserved. Sorry Charlie as Thailand for the last 10 years has been lean and jump accorindilgly. And if you do not even recognize the last few to couple to last year of OH MY GOD here with immigration and the powers that be, then you deserve to be out because of your stupidity.. Enough said as I have been jumping for sooo long here as have been here for too long already. You would think I would be bored but not quite yet. Getting there but not quite yet as I love my family and care too much for them to keep on top of everything and make intelligent decisions here. . . But in the end I can jump and afford all, but I still listen and act way before time. do you?

 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by holy cow cm

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, holy cow cm said:

Just because you have an OA don't try to buck the O's. The OA's have the most retiree on them and it will be you guys who kill the O cat by jumping or talking too much which will make life just as bad for everyone else. Any of the such, I am on the O and I can afford all if I have to and jump those extra idiotic hoops. 

 

 

ah come on, the good folks around here would never do a thing like abuse a visa, i mean look how much <deleted> they gave those damn nomads over abusing tourists visas.

 

no, i am sure they will all do the right thing, stick with their OAs and pay their insurance premiums.

 

hahahaha yeah right 

 

 

[david555]

3 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

Agreed. I'll be doing a non-O based on retirement in January when I return from the US and, with an extension, I think I have one more year to get things sorted out and researched as to where I will head when they add an insurance requirement to non-O visas. At least I was smart enough to see the inherent instability of Thailand and didn't buy any property that I will have to get rid of. I've been here almost 9 years and was planning to be here for quite a few more. I'll miss Thailand.

 

David

GENERICNIC said :

"At least I was smart enough to see the inherent instability of Thailand and didn't buy any property that I will have to get rid of. I've been here almost 9 years and was planning to be here for quite a few more. 

 

100% agreed ….just like I dreamed it …. but I woke up in time as putting of the pink glasses  5555

[AverageBloke]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

1. Not a problem. The change is for safety reasons, due to that it was in some countries possible to fake the income. If you can live up to current rules, everything is ok.

2. According to the latest meeting, TM30 is only needed if returning from a visit outside the country. Information is from the head office.

3. No need. Just change to Non-O instead of Non-O-A, and there is yet no mandatory insurance. Although, you should have one in a foreign country to be considered a responsible person.

Which countries where the ones faking incomes? I've never heard of any accusations directed towards Australia.

[madmen]

OP you could of added that personal opinion to the existing 200 threads but you started a new one with contributing zip except a good cry.

 

Get the bus to Cambodia and get on with your life instead of crying.

[Matzzon]

21 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Consider the insurance at his age. And with pre-existing conditions it is not going to happen. Period! Change to O and screw it up for all the rest? Keep on talking the flip and jump Matzzon.

Comprehension is not at top in this forum I have seen a lot of today. Read and undertsand. He do not need insurance if he change from O-A to O visa.

Screw it up for all the rest, because he is using his rights? 

Last, do not tell me what to do.

[Matzzon]

5 minutes ago, AverageBloke said:

Which countries where the ones faking incomes? I've never heard of any accusations directed towards Australia.

US for one. I personally knew some guys signing higher income than they had.

[holy cow cm]

15 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

ah come on, the good folks around here would never do a thing like abuse a visa, i mean look how much <deleted> they gave those damn nomads over abusing tourists visas.

 

no, i am sure they will all do the right thing, stick with their OAs and pay their insurance premiums.

 

hahahaha yeah right 

 

 

George. You are one of those on the out if I recall. True? I have been listening and jumping for over 10 years. But the reality of the ones who did not follow or listen is going to be detrimental to them.. Not to mention the last OMG jumpers to Non O. For me I don't really worry as am in a position of no problem, but I don't like the one's who did not listen or follow the reality folk and are what do I do now folk. I really feel sadness for them and you, but I will be ok in the near future's end, but so idiotic to not react way before as you know things are in the pike. So, whatever, Non O is destitute the same and so...….. Who cares! 

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Just because you have an OA don't try to buck the O's. The OA's have the most retiree on them and it will be you guys who kill the O cat by jumping or talking too much

There is no reason to pit the OAs against the Non-O crowd...

 

We are both in their crosshairs... They started with the OA holders as this visa is issued to relative newcomers to Thailand that are younger and can get cheaper insurance - The authorities can more easily push the insurance on them... claim success train up people then expand the program to the larger, older and established Non O group saying it is simple  See how the OA group accepted...

 

But make no mistake we are in the same boat...

 

Text from the April Cabinet Meeting...

Edited November 8, 2019 by sfokevin

[holy cow cm]

6 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Comprehension is not at top in this forum I have seen a lot of today. Read and undertsand. He do not need insurance if he change from O-A to O visa.

Screw it up for all the rest, because he is using his rights? 

Last, do not tell me what to do.

Matzzon. I will say I do not agree with the majority of your posts and are in essence ill informed and harsh. But I do give you the benefit of the doubt most time and ignore them.  

[Bangkok Barry]

10 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

it really looks and seem they don't care about destroying families or about what you have purchased here

 

They don't. They have absolutely no interest in foreigners, or Thai family that are affected. The government officials who dream up these draconian rules don't know them, and what happens to those affected doesn't affect them personally so they don't care. Outside their comfort bubble.

[Bangkok Barry]

18 minutes ago, AverageBloke said:

Which countries where the ones faking incomes? I've never heard of any accusations directed towards Australia.

 

Ignore him. He spouts so much nonsense I've blocked him.

[john terry1001]

16 minutes ago, AverageBloke said:

Which countries where the ones faking incomes? I've never heard of any accusations directed towards Australia.

I believe it was the Australian Embassy who implied it could be happening. It was the reason for not continuing with affidavits. They said they couldn't guarantee the accuracy of the statements people made.