How many Expats plans are on hold due to the property slow down?

[madmen]

3 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Take a look at Q House Sukhumvit near Nana station. Cheapest condo unit is 30m Baht.... up to 130m Baht! Thai greed has gone too far. This is an area with severe pollution, the street is filthy, there are beggars and hookers and ladyboys around..... Naturally it appears to be empty.

 

Convert that into Pounds or US$ and imagine what you could buy for that money back home.

 

That area is transformed since army shut down street bars and the lady boy's that lived in them , and cleared the footpaths of street stalls. Soi 13 15 and further up past asoke all have new concrete RDS with new massive drain pipes and new foot paths from soi 2 to asoke BTS as the infrastructure drive continues lower suk.

 

You think the developer's threw a dart at a map? I was there at the sales office for a lawyer friend and all the entry level $1 million USA were sold out?!!!!

 

two 5 Star hotels sofitel and Hyatt (just opened soi 13) both a 2 minute walk to Nana BTW also spent billions 

 

Where do you live, because your post is total BS

[CygnusX1]

5 hours ago, GWS said:

purchased a large sea view low rise 100+ sqm well designed condo in a then 2 year old building, 4.5 years ago in Pattaya. Building is well maintained and full of expat owners. High rise condos are now so overpriced and combined with the every increasing baht you are guaranteed to lose on a purchase. Even if i was to sell which i have no plan too, at 20% less than i paid for it i wouldnt lose. 

If i had to buy a condo now I'd probably rent. Thailand is asking western prices for 2nd rate quality and finish.

Agreed, except your last sentence takes things too far. In Australia at least, you’d be easily paying 5 times or more for an apartment with similar beach location and facilities as you can buy in Pattaya/Jomtien. Similar build quality as well, if you look at recent news reports on shoddy apartment construction in Australia.

[DaRoadrunner]

14 minutes ago, madmen said:

That area is transformed since army shut down street bars and the lady boy's that lived in them , and cleared the footpaths of street stalls. Soi 13 15 and further up past asoke all have new concrete RDS with new massive drain pipes and new foot paths from soi 2 to asoke BTS as the infrastructure drive continues lower suk.

 

You think the developer's threw a dart at a map? I was there at the sales office for a lawyer friend and all the entry level $1 million USA were sold out?!!!!

 

two 5 Star hotels sofitel and Hyatt (just opened soi 13) both a 2 minute walk to Nana BTW also spent billions 

 

Where do you live, because your post is total BS

I was in that location only last week. ok, you go live there then. Do you believe they are all sold out? Bet you they are still empty a year from now as only an idiot would pay that much to live there.

 

As for your comment re BS.... estate agents and lawyers are known to be full of it!

Edited November 24, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, madmen said:

That area is transformed since army shut down street bars and the lady boy's that lived in them , and cleared the footpaths of street stalls. Soi 13 15 and further up past asoke all have new concrete RDS with new massive drain pipes and new foot paths from soi 2 to asoke BTS as the infrastructure drive continues lower suk.

 

You think the developer's threw a dart at a map? I was there at the sales office for a lawyer friend and all the entry level $1 million USA were sold out?!!!!

 

two 5 Star hotels sofitel and Hyatt (just opened soi 13) both a 2 minute walk to Nana BTW also spent billions 

 

Where do you live, because your post is total BS

Bangkok is 1 metre above sea level. No amount of drainage is going to help with sea level rise.

Developers have their brains in their bums if they think Bangkok is sustainable long term. I still remember the floods of 2011, when half of Bangkok was under water, and there were rows of cars parked on any available overpass.

[DaRoadrunner]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Bangkok is 1 metre above sea level. No amount of drainage is going to help with sea level rise.

Developers have their brains in their bums if they think Bangkok is sustainable long term. I still remember the floods of 2011, when half of Bangkok was under water, and there were rows of cars parked on any available overpass.

The Thai rich elite are on a mission to hit and run with the money. I also would not be surprised if someone gets stuffed with an expensive development that ends up under water.

[impulse]

19 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

I was in that location only last week. ok, you go live there then. Do you believe they are all sold out? Bet you they are still empty a year from now as only an idiot would pay that much to live there.

 

As for your comment re BS.... estate agents and lawyers are known to be full of it!

 

Just 'cause they're empty doesn't mean they haven't been bought and paid for.  That's the nature of hot money looking for a place to hide.  My upscale neighborhood in China was 100% sold but less than 50% occupied for over 10 years.  Even empty and pretty shabby looking because of it, the properties just kept on getting more expensive.  So it wouldn't surprise me if that phenomenon came to BKK.  Especially since the vast majority of foreign buyers aren't the falang we're discussing here.

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by impulse

[Halfaboy]

4 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

The Thai rich elite are on a mission to hit and run with the money. I also would not be surprised if someone gets stuffed with an expensive development that ends up under water.

 

Do you have someone in mind ?

[Halfaboy]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Just 'cause they're empty doesn't mean they haven't been bought and paid for.  That's the nature of hot money looking for a place to hide.  My upscale neighborhood in China was 100% sold but less than 50% occupied for over 10 years.  Even empty and pretty shabby looking because of it, the properties just kept on getting more expensive.  So it wouldn't surprise me if that phenomenon came to BKK.  

 

 

 

Thailand property has 21 units for sale and 15 units for rent (just googled).

See: https://www.thailand-property.com/condo/6830/q-sukhumvit

 

 

[tabarin]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

My upscale neighborhood in China was 100% sold but less than 50% occupied for over 10 years.  

Same in Phnom Penh, 1 BR apartments for 100K USD, some Chinese own entire floors and don't bother to rent it cheap. 
Would not be surprised if they also have a fair amount in BKK, however, that China house buying boom also seems to be ending (soon).

But yet also unique that in Kuala Lumpur the rent of 2 and even 3 bedroom condo's is really cheap.

Edited November 24, 2019 by tabarin

[DaRoadrunner]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Just 'cause they're empty doesn't mean they haven't been bought and paid for.  That's the nature of hot money looking for a place to hide.  My upscale neighborhood in China was 100% sold but less than 50% occupied for over 10 years.  Even empty and pretty shabby looking because of it, the properties just kept on getting more expensive.  So it wouldn't surprise me if that phenomenon came to BKK.  

 

 

China has entire newly built cities that are empty. You sure do not want to be the last one owning when the music stops. And for sure the same phenomenon already exists in Bkk too.

[zhounan]

How to know the market price of houses in Thailand? If I want purchase an apartment how can evaluate the price is correct or 200-400%?

[luckyluke]

26 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

only an idiot would pay that much to live there.

A lot of idiots seems to want to live in Thonglor (Sukhumvit 55) and are prepared to pay "silly" prices for it. 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

12 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Issues like currency fluctuations from the Thai baht, Sterling to Aussie dollar are putting a strain on the Western property market in Thailand.

That's where they got it wrong. Basing a whole market on the idea that foreigners are willing to pay those prices, when ordinary Thais could never afford them. Tourism was propping up the market over the past years, however now that they're cracking down on Airbnb and short term rentals, and tourism is down, that ship has sailed too.

 

Market crash is coming - just a matter of time. Personally as a renter I'm looking forward to lower rent. I'm tired of paying 20% more than I did a few years ago due to the exchange rate. (not to mention building maintenance is non-existent - the hot tub has been broken for 3 years now, elevators were last inspected a year and a half ago, trash room has cockroaches, yesterday for the first time I saw rats running around...)

[DaRoadrunner]

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

A lot of idiots seems to want to live in Thonglor (Sukhumvit 55) and are prepared to pay "silly" prices for it. 

Thonglor (Sukhumvit 55) ..... HiSo central..... full of Thai posers. And HiSo Thai girls who look down on Farang and wont even talk to us.

Edited November 24, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Thonglor (Sukhumvit 55) ..... HiSo central..... full of Thai posers

And Japanese executives with family.

[DaRoadrunner]

7 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Market crash is coming - just a matter of time.

Agreed..... The Thai castle is built on sand and the tide will surely come in. Gonna be the biggest bust you ever seen with potential worldwide knock on effects.

 

Just before the end, the Thai elite will swap their ill gotten gains for US$ and then let the baht crash, just like a certain PM did some years ago.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[bkk6060]

Yes, about the empty condos another issue no one thinks about is what happens to it when you die?

Most have no plan but do not worry, I am sure your embassy will handle everything...

 

Nice to see an honest thread regarding the dead money, non transparent, convoluted mess of Thailand real estate.  Smart people with some money and investment experience certainly are not buying or holding onto Thailand real estate.  If you mistakenly bought, I would cut my losses and make it up in true liquid investments.

 

Good luck to all stuck and holding on.  For 10,000 b a month now you can rent a nice new turn key condo no problem in Pattaya.

Enjoy it and when you want to go, turn in the keys and wave bye bye. 

 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

55 minutes ago, madmen said:

That area is transformed since army shut down street bars and the lady boy's that lived in them , and cleared the footpaths of street stalls. Soi 13 15 and further up past asoke all have new concrete RDS with new massive drain pipes and new foot paths from soi 2 to asoke BTS as the infrastructure drive continues lower suk.

I live there. The hookers and ladyboys are still there, and it's actually scary to walk at night now that the street bars are gone and it's ONLY hookers and ladyboys on the street. So no, the area hasn't transformed, it just became worse. The street bars made the area safer at night. The only good development is the drain pipes so it's not flooding anymore. The new Hyatt looks nice, but the front of it looks like a hooker parking lot at night. Same goes for Sofitel.

 

I literally chose this area because it's a party area. It's not a family-friendly location. That hasn't changed.

[GWS]

3 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Impossible to be full of expat owners.

The complete 49% of foreign quota of the  building was sold out to mainly owner occupier expats and fly in out workers. Alot of the thai name quota were also bought by expats under their wives names. There are very few rentals or rooms for sale in the building. I would call that full.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

57 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

I was in that location only last week. ok, you go live there then. Do you believe they are all sold out? Bet you they are still empty a year from now as only an idiot would pay that much to live there.

I know for a fact at least half of the units in my building are sitting empty most of the year. And this is a building on the lower end price-wise. I'd imagine the higher priced ones are faring worse, especially since they started doing stupid <deleted> like fingerprint readers to discourage Airbnb.

[DaRoadrunner]

11 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

I live there. The hookers and ladyboys are still there, and it's actually scary to walk at night now that the street bars are gone and it's ONLY hookers and ladyboys on the street. So no, the area hasn't transformed, it just became worse. The street bars made the area safer at night. The only good development is the drain pipes so it's not flooding anymore. The new Hyatt looks nice, but the front of it looks like a hooker parking lot at night. Same goes for Sofitel.

 

I literally chose this area because it's a party area. It's not a family-friendly location. That hasn't changed.

If you were not such a naughty boy you would be in bed early and not have to see such things. What worries me is that some of the Ladyboys look better than the real hookers.... Yikes... run!

Edited November 24, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[Destiny1990]

Thai Property market will crash because of a lack of long term foreigner tenants..( poor visa options)

Without tenants properties becoming worthless no longer they are an asset instead becoming a liability.

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Destiny1990

[KSwr7UDHyn]

1 hour ago, tabarin said:

Same in Phnom Penh, 1 BR apartments for 100K USD, some Chinese own entire floors and don't bother to rent it cheap. 
Would not be surprised if they also have a fair amount in BKK, however, that China house buying boom also seems to be ending (soon).

But yet also unique that in Kuala Lumpur the rent of 2 and even 3 bedroom condo's is really cheap.

 

The Chinese are doing this all over the world.  They're desperately trying to get money out of the country. 

 

In Hawaii, people are constantly complaining about the Chinese buying up the luxury condos and homes and letting them site vacant. 

 

Vancouver's real estate market was going insane because Chinese were buying up places and letting them sit vacant.  The city put a vacancy tax on any home kept vacant just to try to force them to at least rent the properties. 

 

Up and down the west coats of the US, Chinese are buying like crazy. 

 

Thailand is just one of many places where the Chinese are parking money. 

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

... 10,000 b a month now you can rent a nice new turn key condo no problem in Pattaya.

 

 

"Nice" is a relative concept. 

 

When in Pattaya I rent at MaxxCity;

 

"nice", at 15900 Thb, if 3 months rent. 

 

What "nice" place can you get in Pattaya for 10000 Thb? 

[Why Me]

Renting makes a lot more sense financially here to my mind than the US.  Example: I rent a 65sq.m. 2 bed/bath apartment with a wraparound balcony on the 15th floor near Victory Monument for 20k/mth. It's an older building but well maintained.

 

Equivalent condos in the neighborhood start at 6 mil. Now, 20k x 12 / 6 mil = 4%. So essentially I am borrowing 6 mil in the form of real estate at 4% per annum. I can and do make a lot more than that in the US stock market where I am fully invested. No, I am not some brilliant/lucky trader. The opposite in fact so I have everything in staid boring index funds. The market historically grows at an average of 7%/annum recessions included.

 

However, the US equation for renting vs. buying is different because of home owner tax breaks and the rent to buy ratio there is closer to 10%.

 

Sure, there's the pride of ownership which is hard to price. But hey I get my little late night kick logging into my Fidelity brokerage ac.

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Why Me

[newnative]

1 hour ago, GWS said:

The complete 49% of foreign quota of the  building was sold out to mainly owner occupier expats and fly in out workers. Alot of the thai name quota were also bought by expats under their wives names. There are very few rentals or rooms for sale in the building. I would call that full.

    Agree.  There are a number of older condo buildings in Pattaya with lots of expats in them.  If you want to avoid living in a condo project overrun with illegal daily renters, look for a condo project that was sold before Airbnb became popular and avoid the new, large projects with the majority of the units hotel room size of 35 sqm or less.

[Sterling]

1 hour ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

I know for a fact at least half of the units in my building are sitting empty most of the year. And this is a building on the lower end price-wise. I'd imagine the higher priced ones are faring worse, especially since they started doing stupid <deleted> like fingerprint readers to discourage Airbnb.

Serious question, not trying be snarky. How would you discourage Airbnb in your building? The fingerprint reader sounds like a good start (until the owners start including a rubber fingerprint with the condo keys so the Airbnb'ers can get in).

[DaRoadrunner]

1 hour ago, KSwr7UDHyn said:

 

The Chinese are doing this all over the world.  They're desperately trying to get money out of the country. 

 

In Hawaii, people are constantly complaining about the Chinese buying up the luxury condos and homes and letting them site vacant. 

 

Vancouver's real estate market was going insane because Chinese were buying up places and letting them sit vacant.  The city put a vacancy tax on any home kept vacant just to try to force them to at least rent the properties. 

 

Up and down the west coats of the US, Chinese are buying like crazy. 

 

Thailand is just one of many places where the Chinese are parking money. 

When China sneezes, the whole world could catch a cold.

[KSwr7UDHyn]

51 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

When China sneezes, the whole world could catch a cold.

 

I prefer to think of it as, When China farts, the whole world smells their <deleted>. 

 

[Caine]

Wise up the properties in the U.K. are always worth real money, you sound like a hopeful expat who has burnt his bridges, along with many thousands of others. Be honest your condo ain’t worth a carrot ????. I’ll give you 50 baht for it and chance being done. At least you will get the maintenance fees off your back. Genuine offer ????????????????????????????????????????.