Ban of sugar cane burning enforced this year. Really?

[kickstart]

6 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Two nights ago, Saturday 30 November saw smoke from definite crop burning, 50km south and about 2-5km west of Khon Kaen.    Dark enough to be that from cane but people also burn rice stubble.

Find out if your local sugar mill is open ,normally cane is burnt at night ,or very early in the morning,and it is then cut  straight away ,if left any longer the crop drys out  and the owner will receive a lot lower price ,as the Kwam-Whun,the sugar content will be low ,as well as the crop yield. 

If the millis not open it will be rice or maize stubble being burnt .

Our local mill will now open on the 12th December ,a good 3 weeks late this year .

[scorecard]

On 11/25/2019 at 2:57 AM, sirineou said:

These posters burn well ,they  are good for starting the fires.

I'd take a bet the farmers etc., have never read the signs.

[farmerjo]

11 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Two nights ago, Saturday 30 November saw smoke from definite crop burning, 50km south and about 2-5km west of Khon Kaen.    Dark enough to be that from cane but people also burn rice stubble.

And...

[wayned]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

I'd take a bet the farmers etc., have never read the signs.

I live in the last house middle of sugar cane  and corn fields.  I went out with the dogs a few minutes ago and the hills in the distance were ablaze, so, at least the mill near me, has not stopped buying burnt cane.  Most of the cane here is still cut by hand and , in addition to the fact that burnt cane can be cut faster, it also costs more to cut.  Years ago when I had sugar a bundle of 20 stalks cut and tied with cane leafs cost 1.5 baht while a stack of 10 un-burnt stalks cut an bundled cost 3 baht.  The un-burnt cane weighed more but didn't offset the additional costs.

[thoongfoned]

drove past the largest weigh station this morning, afew tractors and trailers waiting to be tipped, 2 macro's unloading and loading, did not look like burnt cane, but did not stop to look, 650 baht a ton.... 

[farmerjo]

Cutting has started here,no burnt cane as yet.

The pressure is going to be on with sub standard crops this year.

There is only a few contractors who buy the fields so those farmers down the list risk their crops being dead before cutting time.

And that means no crop next year without replanting. 

Desperate times will create desperate measures. 

[kickstart]

7 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

drove past the largest weigh station this morning, afew tractors and trailers waiting to be tipped, 2 macro's unloading and loading, did not look like burnt cane, but did not stop to look, 650 baht a ton.... 

So I have been told ,what ever the cane price  is  ,the government will sub it  too  1000 baht/ton, I said to the guy that told me is that really so ,he said wait and see ,I said I believe it when I see it, rumors.  

[kickstart]

On 12/1/2019 at 7:16 AM, farmerjo said:

Hi KS,

Last time i enquired the liquid product was free from the factory,you just had to pay for the 10 wheelers to deliver and spread.

For memory you had to apply at 1000 litres/rai so a truck could do 10-12 rai depending on tank size and had some EM,molasses mixed in the product.

We are 40 km's from the factory.

Will give a more detailed analysis after i finish harvest here and revisit the factory,it may of changed a bit as they also make bagged fertilizer now.  

I was out and come across this ,spreading soil mate on some maize stubble ,this is only 6 km from our local mill must be last years molasses as the mill has yet to open .

This outfit  must weigh 30 ton loaded ,as you said the soil  compaction must be high .

Shows how dry it has been, normale the soil mate is applied after the cane has been cut ,in the new year. Any normale year at this time ,  this outfit would not have got past the farm gate before sinking up to his axles in wet soil ,but looking at his wheels they must be a wet hole out they some where ,things are a changing climate wise. 

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

Thanks for the picture,they do do things to the max here.

Back home on my 10 wheeler fertilizer spreaders i used to run 1200.20 army tyres for better flotation and never loaded more than 10 tonne otherwise you leave ruts on the cornering.

And that was all on minimum till land.

Bet they go thru a few clutches here in a season.  

Might ask the question how much one of those storage tanks is to buy or rent and just get it delivered,then put it on myself.  

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

Might ask the question how much one of those storage tanks is to buy or rent and just get it delivered,then put it on myself

HI FJ 

       I would not know how much one of those tanks are ,we have quite a few in the area ,they is a firm in the area that make the steel water towers ,they have also make  these large storage tanks ,most have legs on for storing diesel,see if I can find out.

Might be cheaper to buy 3-4  large plastic tanks ?.

[kickstart]

22 hours ago, kickstart said:

HI FJ 

       I would not know how much one of those tanks are ,we have quite a few in the area ,they is a firm in the area that make the steel water towers ,they have also make  these large storage tanks ,most have legs on for storing diesel,see if I can find out.

Might be cheaper to buy 3-4  large plastic tanks ?.

Called in at our water tower place ,they had this in second hand ,stainless steel  ,looks like an old milk tank 6000 litre, 70 000 baht ,I said how much to make one ,a 6000 litre  tank 80000 baht .

I said to the woman what I wanted one for ,and she found a you tube video  on her mobile of  a tank mounted on an old truck chassis being towed by a tractor ,we have a few in this area ,but the cost of the tank plus a truck chassis, made in to a trailer not cheap .

A look at Google ,found some second hand tanks that have come from trucks  ,a 10000 litre tank 50 000 baht,and a 6000 lita tank 30 000 baht,what state they are in I would not know .

 

[thoongfoned]

the burning has started around us, fires in all directions last night as soon as the sun went down....555

[KhunBENQ]

21 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

the burning has started around us, fires in all directions last night as soon as the sun went down....555

Not much different from here. So again just empty threats and babble

This country won't change in my lifetime.

[jak2002003]

7 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Not much different from here. So again just empty threats and babble

This country won't change in my lifetime.

I have noticed that this year the burning is actually much WORSE in my area than the last 2 years!  Nearly every rice field is burning or been burnt.... farmers openly walking about an setting the fires in broad daylight, no concern about any fines or being reported.

 

There are all hundreds of huge plastic signs put up everywhere, saying not to burn...   so on top of the pollution caused by more burning, there is now a huge amount of thick plastic coloured signs to add to the pollution..... I think they will add up to more than the one day a week supermarket stops handing out free plastic bags.  

 

And, as usual, nearly every house in our street has been randomly sweeping up leaves and plastic bags into neat little piles to burn in the evenings (presumably for entertainment and to keep warm).  What the heck is wrong with people?!! 

[farmerjo]

Well everyone around here is doing the right thing so far cutting the cane.

But i know they will never get there fertilizer machines through the trash left on the ground so the burning will be at a later date.

Could do with a few fires tonight,it's freezing.

[ireckonso]

The gov. just announced another 31 billion baht in handouts to the rice farmers along with the other billions <deleted> away on other worthless schemes the last few years. Just think how much equipment that could have bought to help them modernize their farming practices. TIT.

[wayned]

The cane cutting hasn't gotten into full swing around here yet.  There have been some fires in the distant hills but none around me yet.  I had to go on the road past the mill last week which is usually a disaster this time of year due to the cane trucks but I did see any yet.  The mechanicakl harvesting is increasind and they don't burn those fields as they bale the leftover forrage after cutting  I looked at importing a JD3510 harvester a few years ago but was unable to find an interested local investor.  Most of the harvesters are trucked in and the owners buy the whole field up front, harvest, bale, transport and sell all in one package, with no burning

[Shuguk]

We`ve moved to a town now but prior to that we were living out in the sticks in a beautiful area not far from Pak Chong. We had grown corn in a rented 11 rai field but a lot of the locals would grow sugarcane. It was bad enough with the burning, though it seemed not to last long once it had been lit, it was the black flakes that seemed to float down for days that really (deleted) me off. It was a bit of a lottery when to do a family washing.

The last year we were there the farmer in the field beside us decided to rent in one of these harvester machines, that eventually chopped up the cane into small bits and dumped them into a big wagon. It worked great in the first field but the machine couldn`t do the business in the second field due to too many boulders in the field, so the farmer had to get a squad in to chop down the cane (the field was too near our house to burn.....thankfully).

[kickstart]

Driving past our new Kubota dealership and saw this ,I had to ask what is it ,well it is a flail cutter ,to go up sugar cane row ,flailing the leaves, before cutting the cane , by hand as the woman at the dealership said ,the leaves  will make some ,fertilizer/organic matter .

A good idea ,but you would need a very small tractor to go up the row's ,and I would doubt if it would have enough hp to power the machine , and it depends if the crop is all in  straight rows ,no lodging it looks well built ,but at over 50 000 baht expensive .made here in Thailand 

It looks like one of those machines that ,as would be said in the uk ,use it once ,then confine it to the hedge bottom ,not use it again .

Someones idea to help harvest cane now there is no legal burning. 

[farmerjo]

3 hours ago, kickstart said:

Driving past our new Kubota dealership and saw this ,I had to ask what is it ,well it is a flail cutter ,to go up sugar cane row ,flailing the leaves, before cutting the cane , by hand as the woman at the dealership said ,the leaves  will make some ,fertilizer/organic matter .

A good idea ,but you would need a very small tractor to go up the row's ,and I would doubt if it would have enough hp to power the machine , and it depends if the crop is all in  straight rows ,no lodging it looks well built ,but at over 50 000 baht expensive .made here in Thailand 

It looks like one of those machines that ,as would be said in the uk ,use it once ,then confine it to the hedge bottom ,not use it again .

Someones idea to help harvest cane now there is no legal burning. 

Hi KS,they work hand in hand with machine in picture below.

Haven't see any results from them working,they look like a copy from Aus sugar 30 years a go.

Driving past some local weigh stations yesterday,price seems stable at 740 plus 20 on the signs.

 

 

[kickstart]

Talking to a cane /dairy farmer this morning ,he said the price from our local  sugar mill is 750 baht/ton ,he is not certain if the government  or the mill is going to sub them ,he has just cut one field 6 ton /rie ,cut by hand ,not burnt,not a lot.

He is paying the cutters 1.60 baht a 10 stick bundle ,up from 1 baht 10 stick bundle ,or over night his labour costs have gone up 60% ,not many other businesses could say in business with increase like that ,and the price of cane has not gone up .

Unburnt cane take s longer to cut  hence haveing to pay them  more ,seen a lot less cutters about this year ,and I would say next year even less now for the first time machine cutting is cheaper than hand ,to cut and haule cane to the mil is 350 baht ton ,with a price of 750 baht/ton ,does not leave a lot .

This year it will be a short campaign ,low yield's all round  ,a harvester near me has done 40 rie plus in less than 2 days,a normal year in a good day about 20 rie.

This I have herd of before machine cut cane ,give lower yield and lower sugar content than hand cut cane ,with machine cut cane they is loss of sugar from the   shot cut pieces ,it leaches out ,and if the que at the mill is long ,(2 days waiting  to tip has been known when very busy) ,the cane drys out ,so lower weight and sugar content ,but our mill has given tipping  priority to machine cut cane.

So,not a good year for cane ,but the tree huggers are happy no burning .

But the fuel companies  will be happy ,about every field of cut cane I see they is a fuel cart in the field ,one of these  cane machines are shod with a 250 hp engine ,and they use a lot of  fuel ,before the hand cutters cut the  burnt cane ,Somchie comes with his Ford 6600 and cane loader and loads the truck ,a lot more economical . .............progress for you.

[ireckonso]

Yes the children's health will progress into asthma. bronchitis, and many other serious diseases just so the poor farmers can keep burning every damn thing in sight. Now that is progress and stupidity at its finest. Nothing like me me me to make a person feel good.

[bwpage3]

Sorry not true at all.

 

In Isaan they are burning the fields everyday and night

 

 

[farmerjo]

I hope a few fields by me are burnt soon.

With the landscape around here being so dry and no firebreaks.

A out of control blaze could easily rip through and destroy 3 villages with the blink of a eye.

[KhunBENQ]

It will never change. Pic taken about 30 min ago from the terrace.

Edited December 25, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[farmerjo]

27 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

It will never change. Pic taken about 30 min ago from the terrace.

I did the right thing and bought the missus an electric blower,takes 5 minutes to clean the yard in the morning.

I haven't seen a year like this where so much sugar has died before harvest,i'm afraid the rush is now on and the green policies have been put on hold till next year.It will happen just not this harvest.

[farmerjo]

Just started outside my house,one direction i don't have to worry about now.3 to go.

 

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, KhunBENQ said:

It will never change. Pic taken about 30 min ago from the terrace.

If you read my last post ,and you where a cane farmer you would burn your fields ,and if you had they debt burden ,you would burn your fields ,farmers  are only like you and me in a past life ,working to pay the bills ect ,

And unlike our country's be it US of A or Europe,  farmers are subsidized ,in the US by the government ,and Europe by the EU at one time 1/3 ed of EU budget went on CAP Common Agricultural Policy .

Or they are not subsidized they will get a guaranteed price for they crops ,and they will know how much they will get for they crop ,the times I have asked a Thai farmer how much he is getting for his crop they are already harvesting and they say I do not yet know ,how are you supposed to make a living working like this .

[wayned]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:20 PM, kickstart said:

Talking to a cane /dairy farmer this morning ,he said the price from our local  sugar mill is 750 baht/ton ,he is not certain if the government  or the mill is going to sub them ,he has just cut one field 6 ton /rie ,cut by hand ,not burnt,not a lot.

He is paying the cutters 1.60 baht a 10 stick bundle ,up from 1 baht 10 stick bundle ,or over night his labour costs have gone up 60% ,not many other businesses could say in business with increase like that ,and the price of cane has not gone up .

Unburnt cane take s longer to cut  hence haveing to pay them  more ,seen a lot less cutters about this year ,and I would say next year even less now for the first time machine cutting is cheaper than hand ,to cut and haule cane to the mil is 350 baht ton ,with a price of 750 baht/ton ,does not leave a lot .

This year it will be a short campaign ,low yield's all round  ,a harvester near me has done 40 rie plus in less than 2 days,a normal year in a good day about 20 rie.

This I have herd of before machine cut cane ,give lower yield and lower sugar content than hand cut cane ,with machine cut cane they is loss of sugar from the   shot cut pieces ,it leaches out ,and if the que at the mill is long ,(2 days waiting  to tip has been known when very busy) ,the cane drys out ,so lower weight and sugar content ,but our mill has given tipping  priority to machine cut cane.

So,not a good year for cane ,but the tree huggers are happy no burning .

But the fuel companies  will be happy ,about every field of cut cane I see they is a fuel cart in the field ,one of these  cane machines are shod with a 250 hp engine ,and they use a lot of  fuel ,before the hand cutters cut the  burnt cane ,Somchie comes with his Ford 6600 and cane loader and loads the truck ,a lot more economical . .............progress for you.

When I grew cane before my wife died I paid around 1.5 for a bundle of 20 burnt stalks but it went up to almost 3 baht for a bundle of 19 un-burnt stalks.  As said,  the burning won't stop until  the government properly subsidizes the harvest like other countries.   You would do the same thing if you needed the money to survive.  Mechanized harvesting is the only way to go but that takes an additional large investment, and ongoing support, of a harvester that is dedicated to sugar cane as it can not be used anywhere else like a new tractor.  Believe me , as I have imported three JD grain harvesters.

[farmerjo]

Straight across the road today and a first for this area.

I'd say today ran at a loss for the contractor,3 hours to load one truck with not more then 4 rai.

3 other trucks on standby left empty handed.

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by farmerjo