I so fed up with stupid dangerous drivers

[Shouldhaveknownbetter]

18 hours ago, Onrai said:

Well everyone has their own opinion. I’ve only lived in San Francisco and the Bay Area 65 years so obviously I couldn’t possibly have an informed opinion.

Anyone running for re-election, anyone who has ever gone to a town council meeting, knows that road maintenance is a top priority that generally fails to get any traction. 280, 101, 680 are well maintained but not any better than the major highways here. 

Probably worse maintained now that CA. Is struggling with major infrastructure problems due to all the forest fires and allocating assets elsewhere. 

That people are more polite clearly shows we are talking about a different San Francisco CA. Road rage is almost at epidemic levels. Hard to drive anywhere without someone flipping you off for a perceived slight. Don’t believe me- I’d be happy to send you scores of articles on people ramming each other, chasing each other for 10’s of miles because someone got someone <deleted> off. It is a phenomenon that I have never seen in any other country. I ‘d love to have a discussion on what causes road rage in America. What amazes me about Thailand is that most confrontational situations never reach a boiling point. People take it in stride and rarely get angry. People in and around San Francisco have a sense of entitlement that escalates at the smallest provocation. Road rage is just as much a uniquely American phenomenon as mass shootings of innocent civilians.  Neither exist t anywhere near the level they do in America. My suggestion is read the news, go to city council meetings about road conditions. Try cutting someone off, or trail gate, or forget to make a lane change without your turn signal and see what happens. 

Opinions differ.  I to have lived in the bay area for about the same amount of time as you.  I just returned from a 3 month visit.  Frankly I was shocked how much better the roads where and how more relaxed the driving was.  

[Onrai]

1 hour ago, Shouldhaveknownbetter said:

Opinions differ.  I to have lived in the bay area for about the same amount of time as you.  I just returned from a 3 month visit.  Frankly I was shocked how much better the roads where and how more relaxed the driving was.  San 

Like I said- we must be talking about a different San Francisco, CA.

 

Please refer to San Francisco Chronicle article dated October 18, 2018, which ranks San Francisco Roads as the worst roads in the Nation

”The Bay Area has the worst roads in the nation, according to a new report by TRIP, a Washington, D.C.-based transportation research group, that seeks to bolster a campaign by California transit officials to preserve the state’s recent gas tax hike”

 

I have also attached just a Small selection of articles on road rage in the Bay Area. 

 

[Airbagwill]

8 hours ago, Onrai said:

 

Well I can tell you one thing- Who only recognizes 34 countries that collect data according to their data collection protocol. Want to guess if Thailand is included in that list?

I think you haven't been reading my posts. What is your point?

[mike787]

On 12/3/2019 at 3:07 PM, Airbagwill said:

No it isn't, you're just making up and misusing sound-bites.

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!

[sunnyboy2018]

Am I the only one for whom Thai driving is not an issue? When I learned to drive it was in a busy city. Since then I have driven and been a passenger in many countries and they have been a lot worse than Thailand. I assume the complainers, who find Thai driving a challenge, are essentially country people who would be equally unnerved in London or Tripoli or New York or Riyadh? I have seen more dangerous situations in one week in Saudi than in 25 years in Thailand. One thing I dont understand about people who find driving stressful is: why do it?

[sunnyboy2018]

On 12/5/2019 at 5:55 AM, Onrai said:

 

The Thai driving statistics are not accurate because they include motorcycles which are inherently more dangerous and the statistics include country and rural roads. When compared to other countries like is not being compared to like. There is no real true comparison. Ask anybody to compare driving in a Thai city or town to a Middle Eastern or African city or town and they will tell you the truth: Thailand is very safe.

[transam]

13 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Am I the only one for whom Thai driving is not an issue? When I learned to drive it was in a busy city. Since then I have driven and been a passenger in many countries and they have been a lot worse than Thailand. I assume the complainers, who find Thai driving a challenge, are essentially country people who would be equally unnerved in London or Tripoli or New York or Riyadh? I have seen more dangerous situations in one week in Saudi than in 25 years in Thailand. One thing I dont understand about people who find driving stressful is: why do it?

Could be, perhaps you don't notice everything that's going on....????

 

 

 

[Airbagwill]

It seems despite all the danger no one actually gad an accident....but they have avoided them with "near misses" that we can put down to their superb driving skills.

Furthermore i feel we can rest assured in the knowledge that any accident they may have will 100% not be their fault.

A bizarre commonality amongst so many of the posters on this thread.

[Chelseafan]

Last year I was driving in Nakhon Ratchasima about to make a U-Turn. I signalled right to pull into the slip lane, checked my mirror and noticed a high performance bike behind me. Thinking the bike was going to stay in the same lane and continue, I proceeded to drift to the right slip lane. The bike then decided to accelerate and overtook me on the right in the U-Turn lane then shot up the highway.

 

How I missed the c@@@ I will never know.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Chelseafan

[Isaanbiker]

On 12/2/2019 at 8:26 PM, richard_smith237 said:

It sounds?... a great text to voice application you must have there. 

 

Anyway, No, he shouldn't walk !!! haven't you been following the pedestrian crossing threads recently ???

 

It seems as though the Op narrowly avoided an accident caused by an impatient idiot, he's right to remind himself and the rest of us be extra cautious.

 

Am I walking here? Noooooooooooooooooo!!

 

  Every day on my way to school, I come by the hospital, and I always stop at the zebra crossing. 

 

And every time, motorbikes, pickups, and even trucks are trying to take over and kill some innocent people who want to go to the hospital or leave it.

 

Usually, sick people come from or go to the hospital, so pedestrians should have priority. 

 

Even the coppers in a pick up didn't stop on the other side when I stopped, and people started walking. 

 

Well, if the cops don't stop, who else would? The OP was right, and it's a jungle out there. But even more dangerous for pedestrians. 

 

  

[Scott]

Discussion of misquoted post and replies removed. 

 

[Airbagwill]

On 12/5/2019 at 10:56 AM, richard_smith237 said:

92.8% of Road deaths in the US (in 2017) involved 4 wheeled vehicles = 37,133 deaths per year.

I would check this stat.

Most sources agree that in the USA, about 35 to 40% of road deaths are occupants of 4-wheeled private vehicles

[Airbagwill]

Pedestrians account for about 8% of road deaths. So about proportionally two thirds compared to private 4-wheeled vehicles.o So roughly speaking, forevery 2 pedestrians killed 3 car occupants die.

Vulnerable road users however account for 80% of Thai road deaths. Vulnerable category includes pedestrians, motorcyclists (2 & 3-wheels) cyclists.

In many countries the alcohol percentage in pedestrians can be as high as 50%.

[Airbagwill]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:59 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

The Thai driving statistics are not accurate because they include motorcycles which are inherently more dangerous and the statistics in

 

clude country and rural roads. When compared to other countries like is not being compared to like.

All the deaths per 100,000 stats gathered by WHO include motorcyclists and other "vulnerable" categories.

The problem is that many of those talking about road safety in Thailand especially on T.V. fixate a n the single overall stat with breaking it down or more importantly, looking at the plethora of other stats provided by WHO.

I would suggest that thoroughly studying this WHO report would make a good starting point to get an overall picture ....

https://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_safety_status/2018/en/

 

For a start you'll realise that road safety is more than just a driving issue it is regarded as a HEALTH issue.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

7 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Thinking the bike was going to stay in the same

This why some foreigners arw ull-advised to drive in places like Thailand, making assumptions based on driving elsewhere is foolhardy in the extreme. No matter what country you are in.

[VocalNeal]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:59 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

The Thai driving statistics ............................

One has to think that guys on here are using statistics like a drunk uses a lamppost. More for support, than illumination.

Edited December 8, 2019 by VocalNeal

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

All the deaths per 100,000 stats gathered by WHO include motorcyclists and other "vulnerable" categories.

The problem is that many of those talking about road safety in Thailand especially on T.V. fixate a n the single overall stat with breaking it down or more importantly, looking at the plethora of other stats provided by WHO.

I would suggest that thoroughly studying this WHO report would make a good starting point to get an overall picture ....

https://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_safety_status/2018/en/

 

For a start you'll realise that road safety is more than just a driving issue it is regarded as a HEALTH issue.

                                           

[Chelseafan]

6 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

This why some foreigners arw ull-advised to drive in places like Thailand, making assumptions based on driving elsewhere is foolhardy in the extreme. No matter what country you are in.

I have been driving in Thailand for many years and seen the poor quality of driving of some motorists. I also adapt my driving style whilst there, expecting to be under-cut on the inside, sudden braking and so on. I also HAVE to drive given where we are. On this occasion the fault was definitely not mine, NO-ONE, Thai or foreigner would have expected the bike to overtake me in the U-turn slip lane, this was sheer stupidity on his part, having said that, had I hit the bike I'm pretty sure I would be to blame.

 

But yes, driving in Thailand is a whole different ball game and no place for a novice.

 

[Chelseafan]

On 12/6/2019 at 3:51 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

Am I the only one for whom Thai driving is not an issue? When I learned to drive it was in a busy city. Since then I have driven and been a passenger in many countries and they have been a lot worse than Thailand. I assume the complainers, who find Thai driving a challenge, are essentially country people who would be equally unnerved in London or Tripoli or New York or Riyadh? I have seen more dangerous situations in one week in Saudi than in 25 years in Thailand. One thing I dont understand about people who find driving stressful is: why do it?

I agree. Like you I have driven in many countries around the world and never had I been more on edge than driving in Vietnam!

 

[Airbagwill]

12 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

I have been driving in Thailand for many years and seen the poor quality of driving of some motorists. I also adapt my driving style whilst there, expecting to be under-cut on the inside, sudden braking and so on. I also HAVE to drive given where we are. On this occasion the fault was definitely not mine, NO-ONE, Thai or foreigner would have expected the bike to overtake me in the U-turn slip lane, this was sheer stupidity on his part, having said that, had I hit the bike I'm pretty sure I would be to blame.

 

But yes, driving in Thailand is a whole different ball game and no place for a novice.

 

So a one-off, isolated incident that could have occurred anywhere in the world.

Just an irrelevant anecdote in the form of confirmation bias?

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

So a one-off, isolated incident that could have occurred anywhere in the world.

Just an irrelevant anecdote in the form of confirmation bias?

 

On a 2.5 hour journey in from the Airport in the UK (traveling on the motorways) I see maybe one or two 'events' which make me 'clench' - someones done something a little silly or stupidly tailgating a lorry etc, plus of course the usual 'middle laner' just sitting there oblivious. 

 

On a 40 minute journey in from the Airport in Thailand (on the Tollway) I see a lot more 'events' which make me 'clench' someone does something which ranges from a little silly, some stupid tailgating to some absolutely idiotic manoeuvre which defy all sense and logic. 

 

Is this confirmation bias? perhaps, but I'm not specifically looking to spot these things. 

 

My own personal anecdotes - I see idiotic things happening on Thailands roads daily, I personally think they are more dangerous than the roads in the UK, in fact I'm certain of it.

 

That said, I'm also certain the hideous stats 'don't apply to me' (on my motorcycle or in my car) as riding and driving defensively removes us from the high-risk group. 

[Airbagwill]

43 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Is this confirmation bias?

Yes, that is precisely what it is.

 

So also don't seem to understand that you cant exclude yourself from the stats.

 

[Chelseafan]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

So a one-off, isolated incident that could have occurred anywhere in the world.

Just an irrelevant anecdote in the form of confirmation bias?

Are you saying that Thai drivers are no worse than others in the world because if you are then you really need your head screwed on.

 

I've seen countless near misses, crashes and sadly fatalities in Thailand, some (if not most) of which could of been avoided if the drivers weren't driving carelessly and dangerously.

 

Maybe it isn't me who is biased.

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Chelseafan

[Chelseafan]

On 12/4/2019 at 9:50 AM, Airbagwill said:

Like I said, everyone who drives a car or truck thinks they're an expert on road safety. 

Yes, they do don't they.

 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Yes, that is precisely what it is.

 

So also don't seem to understand that you cant exclude yourself from the stats.

 

 

IF everyone who drives from the Airport to their home and sees fewer incidents in The UK than on the equivalent journey in Thailand, is this still confirmation bias?

 

Is it also confirmation bias is Thailands roads are more dangerous and more silly stuff does actually happen here?... or is it just confirmation, even if it is anecdotal?

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by richard_smith237

[mike787]

just drive like they do...can't beat them, join them!

[VocalNeal]

9 hours ago, mike787 said:

just drive like they do...can't beat them, join them!

When in Rome.............

 

Indonesians are no better or worse than Thais at driving.

 

Thais are more affluent and have in general a better and less crowded road system so the average speeds are a bit higher. That they drive around with gay abandon at higher speeds is a result of this. 

 

The fact that everyone thinks they are a good driver is evident by  almost 200 posts on the subject. Me? I'm terrible as I drive more or less like a local. I.e. to suit local conditions. I overtake on the left when necessary, turn left on red lights, do an occasional impromptu U turn. All of which are within the law and expected by other road users.

Edited December 9, 2019 by VocalNeal

[Airbagwill]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

IF everyone who drives from the Airport to their home and sees fewer incidents in The UK than on the equivalent journey in Thailand, is this still confirmation bias?

 

Is it also confirmation bias is Thailands roads are more dangerous and more silly stuff does actually happen here?... or is it just confirmation, even if it is anecdotal?

 

I think you need to understand confirmation bias.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence especially when dealing in large numbers.

[Airbagwill]

17 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Are you saying that Thai drivers are no worse than others in the world because if you are then you really need your head screwed on.

 

I've seen countless near misses, crashes and sadly fatalities in Thailand, some (if not most) of which could of been avoided if the drivers weren't driving carelessly and dangerously.

 

Maybe it isn't me who is biased.

 

Clearly a case of confirmation bias......and that's putting it mildly.

[Chelseafan]

23 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Clearly a case of confirmation bias......and that's putting it mildly.

If you say so.