Thailand Is Down...

[t.s]

I am leaving tomorrow and will no longer be spending my 100k baht/month which I have done for ~2years.

Another broke Farang bites the dust, see ya....

Hardly broke, the guy spends 100k a month!

That's about 20 Thai salaries. He's obviously keeping a lot of Thais employed just by being here.

The Thais just cannot see that all these Farangs leaving (with their large bank accounts) will hurt Thailand. I knew Thais were short sighted but it's getting comical.

20 thai maids salaries. maybe. sorry chief, the noodle vendor at the mouth of soi 1 pulls more than that down in a month. by your reckoning, there wouldn't be any cars on the road.

big bank accounts indeed.

Edited March 31, 2007 by t.s

[Ricardo]

All the while there are poor women and boys for men to exploit, there will always be those that travel to Thailand and other south east asian countries.

Close up the beer bars and other sexually orientated establishments , and Thailand will be very short of so called ' Tourists '.

It's a sad state of affairs, but in my opinion, it's the way it is.

I think you are under-rating the other attractions which this great country has to offer - and feel that the tourist-market has matured, over the past decade. I meet plenty of tourists who aren't just here for booze & sex.

Note that interest-rates are rising, in many countries which supply tourists of all sorts to Thailand, this is likely to reduce their ability to take expensive or exotic long-haul holidays, and that the very strong baht is severely increasing the cost of visiting here.

Also the impact on Thailand's reputation, as a 'fun' destination, of the early-closure of bars - which may now be hitting. There are plenty of other places to go - for the up-market super-rich tourists - which Thailand was (IMHO mistakenly) promoting and advertising towards.

[qwertz]

The very people LOS wants to attract may be hesitant this year because they think the airport situation is an accident waiting to happen. If I wanted to fly with my family I don't think I'd risk LOS until I had a guarantee that the admin. there had cleaned up its act and was acting a little less laissez faire. I passed through the new "airport" on the day after the changeover and it was just short of chaotic. I'm not a nervous flyer normally but that place is going to end up in disaster unless they tighten up.

[Ulysses G.]

I meet plenty of tourists who aren't just here for booze & sex.

Yeah, too bad that they are here for The Pathalogical Liars Convention!

[Ulysses G.]

All the while there are poor women and boys for men to exploit, there will always be those that travel to Thailand and other south east asian countries.

Back in my day, we used to just call it "getting laid".

Who says that the Puritans aren't still kicking around?

[Austhaied]

I meet plenty of tourists who aren't just here for booze & sex.

Yeah, too bad that they are here for The Pathalogical Liars Convention!

Easy tiger. They could be coming here for the temples or to sample Daves "Dukes" fantastic food.. :D

[jasreeve17]

I went to three or four of the big tourist spots in Bangkok and was very very surprised. Empty.

I was curious right at the outset: What three big tourist spots did you visit?

I'm trying to figure out if "big" to you means historical sites (Rattanakosin Island), or entertainment districts (Silom), or well-known shopping venues (Paragon). Please amplify, if you would.

Where's Rattanakosin Island? - I've never heard of it.

Are you trying to discredit me by suggesting that I spend time in Silom? I never go to that horrible area.

I can't afford to go to Paragon, it's Pratunam or Sampeng for me.

To answer your question: I walked up from soi one (Ploen Chit) to the bts close to soi 23 (Emporium), stopping at various bars on the way. Some Thai bars, mostly British owned bars, and one or two "entertainment" venues. A mini pub crawl. Started at about 9pm and got home by 11:30pm... Very boring and quiet.

[toptuan]

I went to three or four of the big tourist spots in Bangkok and was very very surprised. Empty.

I was curious right at the outset: What three big tourist spots did you visit?

I'm trying to figure out if "big" to you means historical sites (Rattanakosin Island), or entertainment districts (Silom), or well-known shopping venues (Paragon). Please amplify, if you would.

Where's Rattanakosin Island? - I've never heard of it.

Are you trying to discredit me by suggesting that I spend time in Silom? I never go to that horrible area.

I can't afford to go to Paragon, it's Pratunam or Sampeng for me.

To answer your question: I walked up from soi one (Ploen Chit) to the bts close to soi 23 (Emporium), stopping at various bars on the way. Some Thai bars, mostly British owned bars, and one or two "entertainment" venues. A mini pub crawl. Started at about 9pm and got home by 11:30pm... Very boring and quiet.

Well, in my opinion, your answer throws the entire thread into a totally new light!

Rattanakosin Island is only Thailand's religious and cultural core, to which both Thai and tourists come from all over the world--perhaps thousands every day of the week. The birthplace of Bangkok. I thought it was one of your four "Big" tourist spots you might have referred to. The center pillar of Thai tourism.

But, you basically are talking about a pub crawl, at which you didn't see your usual beer buddies. What a joke on us!

Yes, folks, just be forewarned: this was not a scientific, official survey, conducted nor sponsored by the Tourism Authority of Thailand!

Edited March 31, 2007 by toptuan

[jasreeve17]

I went to three or four of the big tourist spots in Bangkok and was very very surprised. Empty.

I was curious right at the outset: What three big tourist spots did you visit?

I'm trying to figure out if "big" to you means historical sites (Rattanakosin Island), or entertainment districts (Silom), or well-known shopping venues (Paragon). Please amplify, if you would.

Where's Rattanakosin Island? - I've never heard of it.

Are you trying to discredit me by suggesting that I spend time in Silom? I never go to that horrible area.

I can't afford to go to Paragon, it's Pratunam or Sampeng for me.

To answer your question: I walked up from soi one (Ploen Chit) to the bts close to soi 23 (Emporium), stopping at various bars on the way. Some Thai bars, mostly British owned bars, and one or two "entertainment" venues. A mini pub crawl. Started at about 9pm and got home by 11:30pm... Very boring and quiet.

Well, in my opinion, your answer throws the entire thread in a totally new light!

Rattanakosin Island is only Thailand's religious and cultural core, to which both Thai and tourists come from all over the world--perhaps thousands a day. The birthplace of Bangkok. I thought it was one of your four "Big" tourist spots you might have referred to. The center pillar of Thai tourism.

But, you basically are talking about a pub crawl, at which you didn't see your usual beer buddies. What a joke!

Yes, folks, just be forewarned: this was not a scientific, official survey, conducted nor sponsored by the Tourism Authority of Thailand!

What's your problem Toptuan?

My initial question was why tourists / expats numbers in Bangkok on a Friday night seemed to be down so much. The thread then opened up into a wider topic, as they do.

I actually left Sanam Luang at around seven (that's where I work, you were easily sucked in, again...) to head home. On my way home:-

I went through a four kilometre stretch that is one of the the busiest tourist / expat areas of Bangkok, on a Friday night. Numbers seemed dramatically down. It's that simple.

Your comments are out of focus, and frankly; stupid.

For you folks that didn't understand Toptuan's attempt at being the culture vulture, Rattanakosin Island is an area (not island) generally around the Grand Palace, Wat Po, Sanam Luang, etc.

[toptuan]

My problem is all this hand-wringing we've done over your pub crawl. You, having gone to "Three of the Four Biggest Tourist Spots in Bangkok."

Get a life...

P.S. Rattanakosin: Ah, Google must've saved the day for you didn't it? But, you forgot to type in "island" to see the historical connection. Just revealed your vast knowledge of your new country again. Stick to the pubs, dude, and I'll join you so you can tutor me in all the fine points of the various ales on tap.

OK, flamethrower out of gas. I go to bed now.

Edited March 31, 2007 by toptuan

[jasreeve17]

My problem is all this hand-wringing we've done over your pub crawl. You, having gone to "Three of the Four Biggest Tourist Spots in Bangkok."

Get a life...

Study my route, you will find my statement to hold true. But...

...I'm not interested in flames with you.

Please add something positive to the thread, or ignore it and go away.

[Mid]

predictable , sadly there are some who refuse to remove their rose colored glasses no matter what .

to what end , i don't know ,

as i said earlier in the thread ,

the signs are everywhere ( including Thai tv tonight )

ignore them at your peril ..............

[toptuan]

Please add something positive to the thread, or ignore it and go away.

(Sorry, had to get back out of bed for this one...)

I believe the positive thing I added to this thread was to get you to reveal that your vast survey of "Three of the Four TOP Tourists Spots of Bangkok" was a farce. You would have done us all a service by admitting right off the bat that you visited a few bars and they were empty.

There's more to Bangkok's tourist industry than a couple empty pubs, seen over a period of 2-1/2 hours in Thailand's hottest season.

I propose to the jury of pubic opinion that we have a clear case here of Chicken Little. Mistrial*. Case dismissed.

*MISTRIAL - An invalid trial, caused by fundamental error.

Edited March 31, 2007 by toptuan

[jasreeve17]

My problem is all this hand-wringing we've done over your pub crawl. You, having gone to "Three of the Four Biggest Tourist Spots in Bangkok."

Get a life...

P.S. Rattanakosin: Ah, Google must've saved the day for you didn't it? But, you forgot to type in "island" to see the historical connection. Just revealed your vast knowledge of your new country again. Stick to the pubs, dude, and I'll join you so you can tutor me in all the fine points of the various ales on tap.

OK, flamethrower out of gas. I go to bed now.

I won't flame, but just for your information, I teach the tourist guides and we use this area to teach them...

I just don't think that it's flash to try to belittle other expats with presumed "superior" knowledge.

[toptuan]

but just for your information, I teach the tourist guides and we use this area to teach them...

And you had no idea what the area was called? It's on every map, and in every tourist guidebook. Your poor tourist guides need to get a refund on their instruction.

And my friend, the name of this place is not flaunting "superior" knowledge. I learned it from one of the rural farm kids up here in Isaan; then I began noticing that nearly all the tourist resources referred to it.

Buddy, I'd hang it up. You're just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

Edited March 31, 2007 by toptuan

[American Girl]

I've been living in a condo on Soi 11 Sukhumvit with my father for the past 6 months. I can say with certainty that this area has really slowed down tourist wise. I'm out nearly every night, stopping in Bed Supper Club, Q bar or just walking around and I have noticed the area slowing to a crawl. I was out last night and agree with the OP that it was incredibly slow especially for a Friday night. I can't speculate as to why this is happening though; I will leave that up to all of you, lol

[toptuan]

Another confirmation that the bar crowd is down! OMG! The sky really is falling!

Thailand's tourism industry really IS in shambles!

Notify all the southern islands!

...all the hill-tribe trekkers in Chiang Rai!

...all the tourists to Thailand's multitude of old Khmer temples and historical places.

...all the new health spa industry people!

...all the medical-vacation promoters and visitors!

...all the National Parks!

They need to know that the pub crowd has deserted them, and they should all go home too!

I can't believe this thread.

Edited March 31, 2007 by toptuan

[meadish_sweetball]

A return to the topic of the thread would be a great idea.

Persisting would be a bad idea.

[jasreeve17]

but just for your information, I teach the tourist guides and we use this area to teach them...

And you had no idea what the area was called? It's on every map, and in every tourist guidebook. Your poor tourist guides need to get a refund on their instruction.

And my friend, the name of this place is not flaunting "superior" knowledge. I learned it from one of the rural farm kids up here in Isaan; then I began noticing that nearly all the tourist resources referred to it.

Buddy, I'd hang it up. You're just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

You tried to be flash and belittle me with your cultural knowledge.

You were found out. My Thai cultural knowedge is decent. I work around it, all day, every day. I choose to.

Now you resort to further flames...

[jdinasia]

Jas ... Nana and cowboy are only tourist attractions for a select few .......

cheers

[Casanundra]

I believe there is a general turn down beginning to happen, but it is one that is subtly happening ... in fact it is happening in such a dribs and drab fashion that I reckon it will take about two years before the impact is 'really' felt to the degree that changes will have to happen to improve it.

I have to say that over the past month at least, several of my Thai colleagues have been into the office to have a conversation with me and in all cases it started with them asking me questions about where all the foreigners had gone and to what do I think about the FBA and the impact it will have.

My wife came even home yesterday after an MBA class saying that her finance professor (who is also a Director at Kassikorn bank) is telling them that now is not a good time to have a business in Thailand.

The Insurance company where my wife works also saw a 60% drop in business in the first three months of this year

My boss who is on the Thai constitution drafting commitee is saying that the FBA will surely have an impact on foreign company infrastructures stating in his reasoning that it was foreigners who were to blame for breaking Thai laws by their abuse of nominee shares. If this doesn't have an impact when all of these foreign companies suddenly get declared illegal then I don't know what will.

My Condo has seen a distinct shift from Farangs to Chinese and Japanese these past 6 months.

One large Telco company here that I am aware of has / is moving their operation to both China and Indonesia and getting out of Thailand completely. I am not sure what impact this will have on the economy per sae other than the 150 or so Thai staff, who get an average salary of 70k, will no longer have a job here.

Seven of my friends have now already gone with another three currently mulling things over. If you take the 7 who have already gone and calculate that each had on average about 5.5 million baht in savings that they 'wanted' to use to invest in a Condo (but didn't when the visa rules changed) coupled with each of them earning on average 65k per month and spending it all within the Thai economy, well that is about 5.4 million per year in annual spends along with another 38 million in possible Condo investments gone forever out of the economy. Maybe a small drop in the ocean but not in the local community it won't be. (And no, none of them are broke or down and out either, it's just that they have had enough and went to pastures new)

Even yours truly is getting out in May to take up a new position elsewhere. The exodus is happening, but I believe it is happening so slowly that people are not noticing it yet but they will eventually.

[jasreeve17]

I've been living in a condo on Soi 11 Sukhumvit with my father for the past 6 months. I can say with certainty that this area has really slowed down tourist wise. I'm out nearly every night, stopping in Bed Supper Club, Q bar or just walking around and I have noticed the area slowing to a crawl. I was out last night and agree with the OP that it was incredibly slow especially for a Friday night. I can't speculate as to why this is happening though; I will leave that up to all of you, lol

Thanks for saying so. It was quiet last night.

I think that it's combination of factors. JRTexas listed it well in an earlier post.

[jasreeve17]

Jas ... Nana and cowboy are only tourist attractions for a select few .......

cheers

I don't frequent these places. But I do walk past them on my way to other bars, and I do notice when they are empty.

- This has to hurt the Thais. It's a huge industry, after all.

I work at Sanam Luang, and the Grand Palace is a beautiful place that drives a large revenue. Nana and Soi Cowboy are ugly places, but they also drive large revenues.

I don't know why some posters are trying to turn this into a moral / cultural / thread, and trying to belittle other members. It's a business thread at heart.

Is business down? Are revenues down?

[American Girl]

Another confirmation that the bar crowd is down! OMG! The sky really is falling!

Thailand's tourism industry really IS in shambles!

Notify all the southern islands!

...all the hill-tribe trekkers in Chiang Rai!

...all the tourists to Thailand's multitude of old Khmer temples and historical places.

...all the new health spa industry people!

...all the medical-vacation promoters and visitors!

...all the National Parks!

They need to know that the pub crowd has deserted them, and they should all go home too!

I can't believe this thread.

This is a huge tourist area as everyone knows. I'm talking about tourists from all walks of life. Is it not possible that "so goes big tourist areas, so goes tourism". This is what I fear regarding this issue.

[PeaceBlondie]

I don't get out that much. When the Floral Expo opened on 1 October in Chiang Mai, we had a lot of traffic. High season just didn't sound very high. And...and...I just don't have any other insignificant, meaningless, teensy, anecdotal evidence to add. This being Thailand, none of us gets around much, and the statistics are padded, so...guess what? Most of us know virtually nothing about anything. Welcome to the Land of Blissful Ignorance. I'll have whatever that smiling gentleman is drinking.

[jdinasia]

Jas ... Nana and cowboy are only tourist attractions for a select few .......

cheers

I don't frequent these places. But I do walk past them on my way to other bars, and I do notice when they are empty.

- This has to hurt the Thais. It's a huge industry, after all.

I work at Sanam Luang, and the Grand Palace is a beautiful place that drives a large revenue. Nana and Soi Cowboy are ugly places, but they also drive large revenues.

I don't know why some posters are trying to turn this into a moral / cultural / thread, and trying to belittle other members. It's a business thread at heart.

Is business down? Are revenues down?

I must have missed something ....... what were the """" and one or two "entertainment" venues. """"

but again ... I haven't seen the drop in numbers of people relative to this time of year when I am out ... but I'll let you know when I am in BKK next weekend:) <when I was up 3 w/e's ago it was normal for March >

[jdinasia]

I don't get out that much. When the Floral Expo opened on 1 October in Chiang Mai, we had a lot of traffic. High season just didn't sound very high. And...and...I just don't have any other insignificant, meaningless, teensy, anecdotal evidence to add. This being Thailand, none of us gets around much, and the statistics are padded, so...guess what? Most of us know virtually nothing about anything. Welcome to the Land of Blissful Ignorance. I'll have whatever that smiling gentleman is drinking.

Some people DO get around .... Some don't I fly to and from Phuket about once a month ... usually to BKK ... and when in BKK we always take a day and often a night to go drive somewhere ... Earlier this month it was Saraburi and Lopburi as a day trip. Next weekend it will be Bang Sai and maybe BangPaIn. Down here I manage to get off the island at least every couple of weeks and see how things tend to be going ... Am I an expert? NO! But I do get around ... and to more places than pubs and one or two "entertainment" venues. on lower Suk. So far the season here has been great (though many places told me they died after Mar15 like most years). That isn't the case for Kamala ... hardly see a drop from Peak Season til now at the touristy places!

The anecdote in question was a bit misleading ... both in nature and quality ... but frankly I assumed he meant where he did ... It is just that a couple of hours on one night 2 weeks before the Songkran exodus and before the EOM ...mean next to nothing.

[raybkk]

I am leaving tomorrow and will no longer be spending my 100k baht/month which I have done for ~2years.

Another broke Farang bites the dust, see ya....

Does choosing to leave equate to 'biting the dust' ?

I have lived in Thailand for years, and most Farangs that left Thailand did not choose to leave, they ran out of money and had to leave.

Then again, that was before the tightening of the visa regulations, so maybe things have changed.

This month's excuse:

1. Payday, most people will travel outside bangkok.

2. Bangkok Motorshow. (I have never seen such a packed tollway on a saturday morning/ afternoon/ evening.

3. Farang season is finished. Most tourist in Bangkok will leave at about february/ March. (Ask the girls..all of a sudden they are nice towards local expats again...hihihih)

1 is a monthly event, 2 happens whenever there is a huge show, 3 is a yearly event. Seen these up's and down's every year...And Yes, I love this time of the year. Its last till about November in Bangkok. By that time all single Farangs will coming back and chase their last years loved ones.

[Mobi]

I lived on Soi 31 in Bangkok for nearly 4 years before moving to Pattaya.

During my time in BKK I was a heavy drinker (now reformed ) and used to tour all the bar areas of Sukhumvit - from Ekami to Soi 33 down to Soi 11, and even Nana on a fairly regular basis.

Every year, during the off season, particularly just before Songkran, most bars were as quiet as a mouse, and everyone was predicting doom and gloom, and the workers were worried they would lose their jobs. This was particularly so in areas like Soi 33 , which tends to cater for the richer - up market tourists and the many resident expats earning high salaries.

It was always a good time of year for me - I liked empty bars.

But Songkran and the low season passes, and gradually business tends to pick up again.

Now I'm not saying that there is not a downward trend of tourists and business generally - but I am saying that it's far too early to be sure about this and to what extent.

Let's just wait and see what happens as the year progresses.

My hunch is that it's not going to be anywhere near as bad as the doom merchants predict. I reckon that's still around 2 or so years off, unless the government gets its act together and starts turning the negatives into positives - but that's not very likely.

[jeffrosner]

After stuffing my face at the Montien last Wednesday the Mrs. and me drove down soi 6 Pattaya. The street was not empty. Every hooker was on the street, sitting outside with no one to pull into the bars.

Soi six was empty of Farang but full of Thai Hookers who looked very hungry, and it wasn't food they craved.

JR