Anger erupts at U.N. climate summit as major economies resist bold action

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Regardless of opinion about climate change is there something wrong with the concept of cleaning up the atmosphere, the waterways, the oceans?

Or is rampant pollution welcome?

Of course not, and there lies my main disagreement with this movement.

They put their focus on the highly debatable man-made global warming, while it should be obvious that we should fight the pollution, which is true and undeniable, and much easier to tackle.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Sticky Wicket said:

IPCC are absolutely worthless, you might as well show diagrams drawn by a 5 year old

You can choose to believe that, however I teach 4 and 5 year olds and you are wrong about the diagrams. 
 

As I believe you are on the ipcc findings. 

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Regardless of opinion about climate change is there something wrong with the concept of cleaning up the atmosphere, the waterways, the oceans?

Or is rampant pollution welcome?

Just because people don't believe in the climate change hoax doesn't mean they disrespect the earth or have no concern for it.  You're not the first to use a straw man argument to attempt a fallacious conclusion.

[Grandpa Cool]

4 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

This climate alarmism has taken a very worrying turn. When the world's foremost and most vocal climate activist wants to start putting people "against the wall", and says that to cheering crowds, you know the movement needs banning. Immediately.

 There is no place for double standards. If right leaning groups said they wanted to put liberal leaders "against the wall" they would all be arrested, banned from all social media etc etc. Just waiting for clarity when Greta and her handlers will be arrested for hate crimes? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7789463/Greta-Thunberg-arrives-Turin-Italy-star-turn-huge-climate-change-demonstration.html

Topdeadcentre has lost his mind! He is behaving like a fundamental religious zealot. To ignore what is obvious is the practice of ignorance. Ignorance is the cause of suffering. We are living in a world where greed and ignorance have deluded clear mindedness.

It's time to burst that bubble!

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, Grandpa Cool said:

We are living in a world where greed and ignorance have deluded clear mindedness.

When did the "clear mindedness" world exist?

[Tippaporn]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

18 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You are either being disingenuous or illogical.  You can't deny something if you've never believed it in the first place.  You can't be a denier if you've never been a believer.

 

Here's an example of what you and other climate alarmists do to those who do not blindly follow you:

 

Accuser:  So, when did you stop beating your wife?

 

Accused:  <deleted>??  I've never beaten my wife.

 

Accuser:  So, you're denying it!!!

 

Do you fail to see the twisted logic and disingenuity in the above example?  Yet this is precisely what you and other climate alarmists do.  You slanderously accuse those who do not agree with you via perverse logic.  Totally dishonest.

 

And I'm supposed to trust and believe people like you??  5555555555555

You are denying the facts of man made climate change, because you choose to. 
 

You do not disprove them, that makes you a denier. 
 

I do not ask you to believe or trust me, the entirety of this discourse has been initiated by yourself. 

Well, then, your first two statements clearly indicate you have zero understanding of the point I made which shows your rationale to be illogical since you immediately return to say the exact same things.  Okaaaaay!

 

If the logic in my post is beyond you then I ask again, why would I assume you're logic about climate change is sound?

 

Anyone posting makes themselves a target.  Don't cry about it.

[FarFlungFalang]

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Just because people don't believe in the climate change hoax doesn't mean they disrespect the earth or have no concern for it.  You're not the first to use a straw man argument to attempt a fallacious conclusion.

Why not answer this simple question rather than make allegations of impropriety. 

[White Christmas13]

19 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said:

IPCC are absolutely worthless, you might as well listen to a 15 year old

or maybe 16 year old Greta

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Grandpa Cool said:

Topdeadcentre has lost his mind! He is behaving like a fundamental religious zealot. To ignore what is obvious is the practice of ignorance. Ignorance is the cause of suffering. We are living in a world where greed and ignorance have deluded clear mindedness.

It's time to burst that bubble!

IMO denial is even worse than ignorance. And we see a lot of denial here. Maybe though we have to accept that the first step on the way is to attack pollution, as mentioned it will get a much broader support since it is much more visible.

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Well, then, your first two statements clearly indicate you have zero understanding of the point I made which shows your rationale to be illogical since you immediately return to say the exact same things.  Okaaaaay!

 

If the logic in my post is beyond you then I ask again, why would I assume you're logic about climate change is sound?

 

Anyone posting makes themselves a target.  Don't cry about it.

I wasn’t crying about anything, you asked why you should trust or believe me, I was simply pointing out I never asked you to. I have no problems with you initiating discourse. It doesn’t take up much time or effort to respond. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Bluespunk

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

As of yet they haven't been brainwashed so there's nothing to agree/disagree about.

How do you explain to them about the pollutants in the air, rising temperature, rising sea level etc. 

[stevenl]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

I do trust NASA much more than any of the scientists here on TVF: https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ and https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

[neeray]

2 hours ago, brokenbone said:

i got an email that i immediately had to confirm my bank account details

or the bank account would close and i would lose my deposit.

 

welp, i resisted the call for immediate action and instead went to the bank

asking whatsupwiththat ?

turns out there was no crisis, just another scammer trying

to con me out of money

I get similar frequently.

BUT IT'S GOT SQUAT ALL TO DO WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.

 

(But I see what you're trying to say)

[RideJocky]

45 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I do trust NASA much more than any of the scientists here on TVF: https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ and https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

And NASA says (in your link) that AGW is not a fact. 
 

 

[RideJocky]

15 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I believe in the importance of facts, that is why I check sources, that are purported as presenting such, are reliable. 

No doubt any source you agree with is reliable. 

[Tippaporn]

52 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

How do you explain to them about the pollutants in the air, rising temperature, rising sea level etc. 

I raise them to appreciate the vast grandeur of nature and to respect it.  I raise them to have trust in themselves and trust in the source which gave them life.  I teach them to not worry, too not hurry, and to never forget to smell the flowers.  I also raise them to be truthful.  However, I do not teach them to believe in fallacies.  I teach them how to recognise fallacies.

 

I do understand your tactic of bringing the children into the discussion, Eric.  The poor, hapless dears.  So tragic of me that I don't consider their future.

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Tippaporn

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, RideJocky said:

No doubt any source you agree with is reliable. 

Not just sources I agree with, there are many whose agenda I don’t like, but accept their information as being based in research and facts. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Bluespunk

[tomazbodner]

Lock the venue doors and reinforce them from outside so no one can leave, seal the air ducts. Turn on the heat to increase temperature 1C every 15 minutes inside the meeting hall. Put up a large screen showing current temperature, O2 and CO2 concentrations of the air in the room, and a countdown to when they are all dead if they don't reach viable agreement. Turn on the cameras, grab pop corn and enjoy the show.

[Sir Swagman]

5 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

This climate alarmism has taken a very worrying turn. When the world's foremost and most vocal climate activist wants to start putting people "against the wall", and says that to cheering crowds, you know the movement needs banning. Immediately.

 There is no place for double standards. If right leaning groups said they wanted to put liberal leaders "against the wall" they would all be arrested, banned from all social media etc etc. Just waiting for clarity when Greta and her handlers will be arrested for hate crimes? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7789463/Greta-Thunberg-arrives-Turin-Italy-star-turn-huge-climate-change-demonstration.html

Seems if there is a dubious or inexcusable position on any topic, you find it.

[Eric Loh]

32 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I raise them to appreciate the vast grandeur of nature and to respect it.  I raise them to have trust in themselves and trust in the source which gave them life.  I teach them to not worry, too not hurry, and to never forget to smell the flowers.  I also raise them to be truthful.  However, I do not teach them to believe in fallacies.  I teach them how to recognise fallacies.

 

I do understand your tactic of bringing the children into the discussion, Eric.  The poor, hapless dears.  So tragic of me that I don't consider their future.

 

Are you denying them the truth because of your steadfast worship of Trump who can’t even differentiate weather and global warming. When he is gone, will you change your mind? 

[stevenl]

39 minutes ago, RideJocky said:

And NASA says (in your link) that AGW is not a fact. 
 

 

" The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is extremely likely (greater than 95 percent probability) to be the result of human activity since the mid-20^th century and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented over decades to millennia "

And many more similar texts.

[RickBradford]

6 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

This climate alarmism has taken a very worrying turn. When the world's foremost and most vocal climate activist wants to start putting people "against the wall", and says that to cheering crowds, you know the movement needs banning. Immediately.

I disagree that it needs banning. That would be to adopt the Green/Left's own favorite weapon and hence sink to their reprehensible level.

 

There needs to be a thorough airing of all the facts. Then, the multiple inconsistencies, incoherence and downright misrepresentations peddled by the radical climate activists will become widely visible.

 

But the Green/Left would rather gargle battery acid than let that kind of open debate to take place.

[Grusa]

It matters little whether you believe, or do not believe, in Global Warming. It also matters little whether you believe in God, or Gaia, or any such construct of Man.

 

The fact is the planet has been happily revolving around the sun for a very long time - long before man or any other living creature lived on it. It will continue to revolve happily long after man or any living creature has ceased to live on it. Little blips in temperature, sea level, vulcanism, atmospheric gases, you name it - even though such blips can and have wiped out entire species, created and destroyed continents - the planet really does not care. 

 

So all you are really worried about is a small number of bipedal mammals who have been around for the blink of an eye, and won't last very much longer anyway.

 

I do however agree that anything to make the end less unpleasant for them is a good idea.

 

Am I a nihilist?

[Denim]

Any positive action on climate change now is like slamming on the brakes of a car after it has already gone off the road and sailed over a cliff , flying through the air.

 

The most the brakes can do in such a situation do is stop the wheels turning.

 

The problem has been swept under the carpet for way to long

and we will all soon be faced with the consequences.

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, Denim said:

Any positive action on climate change now is like slamming on the brakes of a car after it has already gone off the road and sailed over a cliff , flying through the air.

 

The most the brakes can do in such a situation do is stop the wheels turning.

 

The problem has been swept under the carpet for way to long

and we will all soon be faced with the consequences.

I hope you're wrong, but you could easily be correct.

[RickBradford]

3 minutes ago, Denim said:

The problem has been swept under the carpet for way to long

and we will all soon be faced with the consequences.

And the consequences will be made far worse in the short term by imbecilic virtue-signalling political moves (such as those enacted in the UK and New Zealand) to move to "zero-carbon" economies as soon as possible

 

These will cost trillions of dollars and have no measurable impact on the climate.

[HuskerDo]

6 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

The world needs more CO2, not less. 

Very true. The cutting down of the rain forest has been very impactful in a negative way. Those trees produce oxygen 365 days per year due to where they are located. In the Northern hemisphere trees lose their leaves for 4 - 5 months a year thus have a far less impact. Replenishment of trees in warm weather countries would be very helpful to global warming.

[Banana7]

With global warming, there are loser and winners.

 

The nations near the Poles will get warmer and will benefit from longer growing seasons and less fuel used to heat homes and business.

 

Planet Earth, in its lifetime, has undergone numerous climate natural phenomena. We'll all survive and adapt.

 

[stuandjulie]

11 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

With global warming, there are loser and winners.

 

The nations near the Poles will get warmer and will benefit from longer growing seasons and less fuel used to heat homes and business.

 

Planet Earth, in its lifetime, has undergone numerous climate natural phenomena. We'll all survive and adapt.

 

tell that to dinosaurs, also you really need to understand what global warming means, it does not mean everyone is getting hotter, eventually some places will get colder, it is also about sea levels, habitable areas, loss of life etc.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

tell that to dinosaurs, also you really need to understand what global warming means, it does not mean everyone is getting hotter, eventually some places will get colder, it is also about sea levels, habitable areas, loss of life etc.

And as we have already seen much more volatile weather worldwide.