Dukes

[altman]

just because you receive some images in email doesn't mean you have to share them with us all.

rat-a-tooie indeed.

[WaiWai]

Was a bit rat-tled by those images, too.

[altman]

If you are unhappy about something speak to the owner who is the ONLY person able to make a difference. He may or may not agree and may or may not make any changes but is the person who is in charge.

Another problem with reporting directly to the person in charge is the "Who the #$$#@@# do you think you are, telling me how to run my business" response, which I have experienced more than once. This can get quite ugly.

oh, so the dick head at chiang mai saloon 2 may not be the owner?

well then i'll try again

but i'm not holding my breath

[tigerbeer]

I have eaten paddy rats in Esarn and enjoyed the experience.

I claim no credit for the following photos, received in an email some time ago.

(pictures removed from quote to save monitor space)

i was just about to have dinner. i am not hungry anymore!

[Ulysses G.]

I am afraid I have a slightly different perspective on this. I only hope I do not, once again get flamed for expressing my opinions here.

These threads deifying restaurants like the Dukes do not really help. They smack of advertising or marketing on the cheap: "A free drink if you get your mates to post good things about my new bar/pub/club/restaurant on Thaivisa." An impression made all the more strong if dissenting voices are not permitted without being flamed off the board.

If a place is good, customers will come, word of mouth will see to that. A listing in the Places to Eat in Chiang Mai will help to publicise it too.

I'm afraid that I must disagree with you here, You say that , "If a place is good, customers will come, word of mouth will see to that", but you also say, "These threads deifying restaurants like the Dukes do not really help. They smack of advertising or marketing on the cheap: "A free drink if you get your mates to post good things about my new bar/pub/club/restaurant on Thaivisa."

How can "word of mouth" spread if the people doing it are accused of being paid off? Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long? The internet IS word of mouth in 2007.

Dave has never asked me to say anything good about his restaurant in any way, and he has never given me any money or free food in the 15 years that I have known him. He and I don't hang out together. I just like his food. I am pretty darn sure that he didn't ask anyone else to promote his place either.

The reason that I praise his place so highly is that - IMHO - it is Waaay better than any other Western restaurant to ever hit Chiang Mai and is quite reasonably priced as well. I am in Pattaya at the moment and there are one or two places that offer the quality of the Duke's, but at more than twice the price. Of course his place is doing well.

I'm aware that some people don't agree with me, but a lot do. We argue with people who don't like it because that's what we do on here.

As far as Dave taking constructive critisism, I can assure you that he does. I really admire him for that and I've seen him trying out new recipes or changing a recipe because of something someone said, but a few posters seem to hate him - or hate his place - and never have anything constructive to say - just constant negative remarks. That gets him down and I can't blame him for that.

He works his tail off and is providing quite a good service to us for a really good price and deserves full credit for it!

[tigerbeer]

He works his tail off and is providing quite a good service to us for a really good price and deserves full credit for it!

UG do not forget that anyone in "business" works his tail off to maximise revenues/profits for himself. We pay them for the services derived and keeping prices as low (or perceived as "value for money") as possible is essential for any competitive business. you surely must know that.

nevertheless, duke's prices are good value for money and food is rather good as well; and so is the atmosphere. i am sure the new branch at NB would surely be much welcomed by long term residents as well as the tourists who flock that area.

[Ulysses G.]

He works his tail off and is providing quite a good service to us for a really good price and deserves full credit for it!

UG do not forget that anyone in "business" works his tail off to maximise revenues/profits for himself. We pay them for the services derived and keeping prices as low (or perceived as "value for money") as possible is essential for any competitive business. you surely must know that.

nevertheless, duke's prices are good value for money and food is rather good as well; and so is the atmosphere. i am sure the new branch at NB would surely be much welcomed by long term residents as well as the tourists who flock that area.

I agree with everything that you have said here and I'm pretty sure that Dave didn't give you a free pizza with extra MSG to say it!

[WaiWai]

1. We can never all agree on tastes in food. This keeps life interesting and gives the forum something to talk about, in addition to money and sex. It seems clear that if you want N. American dishes in Thailand, Duke's is an option. Once Duke's open in the Night Market, he can consider franchising.

2. What is a "Western restaurant" ?? Does that include the food available from the * great* Jerusalem Felafel, Royal India, Mon's bread and others ?

3. While UlyssesG claims to have no vested interest in Duke's restaurant, did he not tell us that the owner of Duke's "bankrolled" his bookshop business ?

4. Might have just tried some of this N. American food, which really does not appeal, but the flagrant touting here has put me off.

[Ulysses G.]

3. While UlyssesG claims to have no vested interest in Duke's restaurant, did he not tell us that the owner of Duke's "bankrolled" his bookshop business ?

That is a joke.

If you had ever been to The Duke's, you would probably realize the "The Duke" is not a real person. He is a cartoonish character that Dave invented to make the menu more interesting and he is based on a good English buddy of mine that we have always called "The Lord". He lent me money to open my first shop, not David.

In reality, he doesn't own the Duke's or have anything to do with it other than eating there every night and answering to "The Duke" if we want to kid somebody.

Dave doesn't pay him off either!

[Crow Boy]

If you are unhappy about something speak to the owner who is the ONLY person able to make a difference. He may or may not agree and may or may not make any changes but is the person who is in charge.

Another problem with reporting directly to the person in charge is the "Who the #$$#@@# do you think you are, telling me how to run my business" response, which I have experienced more than once. This can get quite ugly.

oh, so the dick head at chiang mai saloon 2 may not be the owner?

well then i'll try again

but i'm not holding my breath

He bought out a share of the restaurant and is Ron's business partner up there but the two businesses are seperate. IMHO the one in Loi Kroh is smaller, more cramped, but much better. It is odd because the CM 2 took Ron's best chef's but they can't duplicate what they did in CM 1.

Go say hello to Ron and get your meal there - I won't go back to CM2 - not worth the hassle.

CB

[p1p]

I'm afraid that I must disagree with you here, You say that , "If a place is good, customers will come, word of mouth will see to that", but you also say, "These threads deifying restaurants like the Dukes do not really help. They smack of advertising or marketing on the cheap: "A free drink if you get your mates to post good things about my new bar/pub/club/restaurant on Thaivisa."

How can "word of mouth" spread if the people doing it are accused of being paid off? Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long? The internet IS word of mouth in 2007.

Dave has never asked me to say anything good about his restaurant in any way, and he has never given me any money or free food in the 15 years that I have known him. He and I don't hang out together. I just like his food. I am pretty darn sure that he didn't ask anyone else to promote his place either.

I fear you have misconstrued my post and apologise for any wrong impression I might have given there. I never had any intention to imply that you were being paid to post about the Dukes or elsewhere.

Just to correct one small point in your post: The modern definition of "Word of Mouth", "WOM", still implies personal communication, face to face, by telephone, fax, email SMS or letter etc. Two people who directly know each other communicating.

Processes like posting on blogs, Internet forums, message boards and other places, where the recipient of the information is not directly and personally known by the individual distributing the information are referred to as "Word of Mouth Marketing", "WOMM", "Word of Mouth Promotion", WOMP" or "Word of Mouth Advertising", "WOMA". The difference between these three are subtle and tied up with advert-speak jargon.

[Ulysses G.]

I know that you weren't implying anything negative about me because we know each other pretty well, but other people who don't know the situation start seeing "evidence" where there isn't any, so your post gave me a good excuse to get up on my soapbox!

Where will you be participating in the Songkran festivities?

[p1p]

I know that you weren't implying anything negative about me because we know each other pretty well, but other people who don't know the situation start seeing "evidence" where there isn't any, so your post gave me a good excuse to get up on my soapbox!

Where will you be participating in the Songkran festivities?

I also understood the situation, but wanted to put it on record.

Songkhran. You know I am no fan of the war that is disguised as celebration. I have seen enough bloodshed without looking to it for sport.

We will be heading off to parts south before the festivities, but will probably be back by the 13th. Thereafter we will be hiding out until evening, when dangers to life and limb are minimised.

(All my two-wheel transport is already locked up until the end of the month!)

[p1p]

We were briefly visited by a Troll:

If you have nothing pleasant or constructive to post. Keep your juvenile nasty comments to yourself.

[WaiWai]

3. While UlyssesG claims to have no vested interest in Duke's restaurant, did he not tell us that the owner of Duke's "bankrolled" his bookshop business ? That is a joke.

And a dig on my part. However, that it could be true would be entirely believable to any casual reader of this forum.

If you had ever been to The Duke's, you would probably realize the "The Duke" is not a real person. He is a cartoonish character that Dave invented to make the menu more interesting and he is based on a good English buddy of mine that we have always called "The Lord". He lent me money to open my first shop, not David.

Not exactly a stranger to the establishment, then .

Anyway, p1p's point about deification remains good. That's what gets a little annoying, and even turns some potential customers away.

[WaiWai]

YIKES !!!

What was that ?!

[Toon Army]

I'm hearing the opening at NM has been delayed, the latest is sometime after Songkran. Rumour is that with all the publicity he's getting on TV he's building an extension

[Crow Boy]

I'm hearing the opening at NM has been delayed, the latest is sometime after Songkran. Rumour is that with all the publicity he's getting on TV he's building an extension

On the restaurant or his house

CB

[altman]

i've been trying to figure out what has been troubling me about this discussion, and i think i have it.

i have been in business. retail trade.

at no point did i ever think it was the responsibility of the customer to support me, but i always felt that it was my responsibility to service them.

there is a difference.

all that a retail business has to sell is service. if they can not provide that, they do not deserve to remain in business. if they need others to tout their service, then that service may not exist.

i do not say that the owners of various businesses under discussion do not hold the same standards i had, but some of the posters here seem to think that i, as a customer, owe something to them, as owners.

i don't owe them spit.

[Rasseru]

i do not say that the owners of various businesses under discussion do not hold the same standards i had, but some of the posters here seem to think that i, as a customer, owe something to them, as owners.

i don't owe them spit.

It occurs to me that guessing at a person's nationality, at least in a context like this, might violate a forum rule, so much as I am tempted, I am not going to do it.

[Donnyboy]

Thanks for that p1p.......

do they have a tom yum reciepe?

got an email with pictures regarding the processing of chicken in china if anyones interested

I have eaten paddy rats in Esarn and enjoyed the experience.

I claim no credit for the following photos, received in an email some time ago.

[Crow Boy]

i've been trying to figure out what has been troubling me about this discussion, and i think i have it.

i have been in business. retail trade.

at no point did i ever think it was the responsibility of the customer to support me, but i always felt that it was my responsibility to service them.

there is a difference.

all that a retail business has to sell is service. if they can not provide that, they do not deserve to remain in business. if they need others to tout their service, then that service may not exist.

i do not say that the owners of various businesses under discussion do not hold the same standards i had, but some of the posters here seem to think that i, as a customer, owe something to them, as owners.

i don't owe them spit.

I think you may be referring to earlier eMails of mine asking for caution and to support these businesses. I agree with your point that we as a customer do not owe the proprietor anything except to pay for services rendered but I think we as a community should encourage and support businesses that enhance this our adopted home.

I am happy to support businesses owned by people such as Ron (CM Saloon) UG (Gecko - am I allowed to mention that - ok with the caveat this is not a paid advertisement) Dave (Dukes) and others too numerous to mention individually but it doesn't mean that if I think their standards slip or they do something to upset me that I will not tell them my thoughts. If I think they don't appreciate my business (ie me paying them) then I will take my hard earned coin elsewhere. I am not looking for anything above the normal standard but neither do I expect to be treated like rubbish juist because I live here.

If someone thinks that a business is particularly good and gives a glowing report then depending on my regard for that person it will influence my decision to go there. I didn't go to the Duke because I had heard and sorry to admit believed what I had been told ie food is crap and the owner is a ars#hole. As a result of reading UGs reviews and having regard for his opinion I tried it and am happy to say I enjoyed my meal. Doesn't mean I am taking out ad coverage in the international press but it means I am happy to give my personal opinion and follow it by eating there.

regards

CB

[Toon Army]

........and so it goes on............

[Crow Boy]

........and so it goes on............

Maybe getting a bit paraoid but to what are you referring?

Instead of making a post like you have above why not put together a succint and thought out case?

I am interested in what you are apparently annoyed about by people talking about Dukes

CB

[Rasseru]

. . . why not put together a succint and thought out case?

We cannot all be you.

[Toon Army]

S**t Rasseru you stole my line and a line was about all it was worth.... a short one at that! No, in all fairness, CB has a point...somewhere I'm sure. Just if he were to get to it a bit more succinctly it would give his efforts that much more impact. But as a great man once said; "There's none more blind than those who will not see"

Don't take offence CB, it's not for long only for life!

And just to show I'm impartial on this discussion "Viva la Dukes!!

[WaiWai]

Perhaps the aspect which most caught my attention was that p1p, who has never appeared to me to be anything but rational and reasonable, and is a moderator of this very forum, expressed hesitation about voicing an opinion on this topic.

I certainly agree with supporting businesses that provide good products/service at good value - who wouldn't ? That doesn't mean criticisms of such businesses should be suppressed, one would hope.

It might be good for us to spend rather more time recommending and discussing good local businesses, too. Anyone care to start a "best Thai meal for 25-30 baht" thread ?

[Rasseru]

S**t Rasseru you stole my line and a line was about all it was worth.... a short one at that!

Don't let it depress you unduly. It is only on very rare occasions that I lose in the race for a trite cliche.

[MYMA]

Let me start by saying that I love this forum and truly enjoy the banter that goes on here.

But I must say, this "obession" with The Dukes is absolutely unbelievable to me.

What the hel_l?

[altman]

i do not say that the owners of various businesses under discussion do not hold the same standards i had, but some of the posters here seem to think that i, as a customer, owe something to them, as owners.

i don't owe them spit.

It occurs to me that guessing at a person's nationality, at least in a context like this, might violate a forum rule, so much as I am tempted, I am not going to do it.

i wouldn't want to be responsible for your angst in trying to determine if you might have broken some rule or other...

i'm american and still maintain it isn't for me to 'support' them, but for them to 'service' me.

the support comes after the service.