Any 3BB Fiber Users Managed to Dump ISP Router, Not just Bridge Mode?

[RedCardinal]

I've recently upgraded my old load-balanced set-up from AIS + True going through a Dratek router to AIS + 3BB via a new Ubiquiti Edgemax 4 router.

 

Has anyone managed to dump the ISP Router out of their network? AIS gave me a separate ONU and router, so with the right pppoe user/pass and vlan setup I can take their router out. Here's a guide (in Thai) to doing so with a microtik router:

 

https://medium.com/nexthopthai/%E0%B9%83%E0%B8%8A%E0%B9%89%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%87%E0%B8%95-ais-fibre-%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%9A-mikrotik-ipv6-e0e6a5de9fef

 

Just wondering if anybody with 3BB has managed to do the same? My 3BB connection did not come with separate ONU, but looking to swap in a Ubiquiti Nano G if it will work.

 

Anyone tried?

 

As an aside, I got 3BB for 50% off for 6 months by showing them my AIS bill, and AIS for 50% off for a year by taking a new 1 year contract. I now get 1Gb down and 500Mb up with some redundancy for ~1200 THB per month. Not too shabby when I think back 15 years and begging CAT telecom to purchase their POS CDMA dongle because ADSL hadn't fully rolled out.

[i84teen]

done exactly what? "dump an ISP router"?

 

Lol....enlighten me.

[RedCardinal]

15 hours ago, i84teen said:

done exactly what? "dump an ISP router"?

Many people put ISP-supplied routers into bridge mode and run their own router.  This requires your router to support PPPOE to make the connection with ISP.

 

I was hoping (obviously misplaced...) that someone might have already removed the ISP-supplied router entirely, in order to have one less box in their route. If I manage to remove either of my ISP-supplied routers I'll report back here for others who might be interested in trying. I know there are many people running their own routers, so it might be of interest to some.

[Gweiloman]

May I ask, what’s the benefit of running your own router? Is there a speed increase? Or for security?

[RedCardinal]

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

May I ask, what’s the benefit of running your own router? Is there a speed increase? Or for security?

In the right situation, you might get both of those benefits. Essentially, ISP-supplied routers tend to be cheap-and-nasty, so a common reason for running your own might be to improve your WiFi network - in this case, removing the ISP-supplied router would remove an unwanted WiFi radio (which could interfere with yours).  You might have come across the phrase "bridge mode", and this is related to running your own router behind the ISP-supplied router. In my case, I want to take it a step further and remove the ISP-supplied routers entirely if I can.

[RedCardinal]

This might be useful if you want to discover more:

Interesting that apparently @muratremix managed to get a ONU from 3bb and wasn't using a 3bb router at all:

I think I saw in another thread him saying they no longer supported that when he moved to Phuket, 

[mahjongguy]

I'd be happy to dump the 1st generation modem/router supplied by 3BB. Haven't yet swapped it for the dual-band model. That would be a small advance but I'd much rather go to a standalone modem and a sweet top-end ASUS router.

 

It's a three-part question:

- Does the 3BB service run a non-proprietary protocol?

- Can you obtain a GPON for that protocol?

- Will 3BB allow it?

 

[RedCardinal]

3 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

- Does the 3BB service run a non-proprietary protocol?

My understanding - no. But you need to get the username and password from 3bb, and your equipment must support PPPOE.

4 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

- Can you obtain a GPON for that protocol?

See:

It appears 3bb sell the Huawei ONU unit for 1,200 THB. Same unit is about $15 on Aliexpress. Not sure if 3bb will support a unit they didn't directly provision themselves. Worth asking.

5 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

- Will 3BB allow it?

If they still sell the ONU then yes. Engineer who came to my home had no idea about this. 

 

One thing to note - it's not simply plug-and-play. You need to set up required VLANs on your own router, and the ISPs wont support anything if you use your own equipment. AIS use VLAN10 and VLAN30 (Internet and Playbox respectively). 3bb use VLAN33. Unsure about True. So your own router would need to support VLAN and PPPOE for this to work.

[RedCardinal]

Another useful thread:

Why is site Search here so terrible?

[RedCardinal]

For anyone that might be interested:

Removing AIS router was trivial, and since they installed a separate ONU, all that was needed was to set up PPPoE over VLAN 10 on the WAN side to remove their router.  No calls to AIS, and nothing was changed on their side. The only difference for them is that their router wont be responding to their TR069 requests (since it's unplugged in a box).

3BB delivered a separate single-port ONU, without charge. Connection to it is over PPPoE on VLAN 33. I suspect they may lock down MAC addresses as they were calling network engineers who were checking or doing something on their side. Technicians who came to house were pretty clueless, but overall 3BB were surprisingly helpful with everything. It seems 3BB happy to allow this set-up now, whereas before they would not permit it.

So I now have 2 fiber cables coming into single-port ONUs, load-balanced by a Ubiquiti EdgeMax 4 router (can highly recommend), run into a switch and separate AC access point. No more cheap ISP routers in bridge mode and their interfering WiFI radios which before resetting with every power cycle.

[ThomasThBKK]

Ahh i am planning similar atm for a new house:

 

Just ordered the Ubiquiti Unifi Dreammachine Pro in the US yday, and a 24 PoE switch from them, going to use unifi protect video system and the inwallHD and nanohd access points around the house.

 

My plan was to replace the 3bb gpon with a unifi nano gpon or similar, i just don't want any huawei/fiberhome brand gear in my house: https://store.ui.com/products/ufiber-nano-g

 

According to google you can change the nano gpon to run with the supplied gpons serial number and then use the dreammachine or every other router to make the connection: https://github.com/palmerc/AESCrypt2#what-about-replacing-the-router

 

Do you have any idea if that will work out before i order more and more gear? I didn't read any success stories so far specifically for 3bb, which isn't a surprise as i don't speak thai and my google <deleted> is quite limited in that respect.

 

[muratremix]

UFiber Nano G looks good but I don't have a GPON / ONT device from 3BB and it means I can't use it even if I use mac address of supplied cheap Huawei router?

Edited January 29, 2020 by muratremix

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, muratremix said:

UFiber Nano G looks good but I don't have a GPON / ONT device from 3BB and it means I can't use it even if I use mac address of supplied cheap Huawei router?

From what i understand many ISPs use the serial nr (or mac?) to auth the GPON ONT to their network, as long as you rewrite the nano gpon hd serial number with the huwei one it should authenticate fine.

the unifi gpon has different profiles, profile 2 makes it work like a huawei router, that and with the correct serial number it should authenticate fine.

 

The serial nr is listed in the device overview according to: https://www.sys2u.online/XPERT_TOPIC54_how-to-set-bridge-mode-3bb-gpon-onu-model-HG8245H-MikroTik.html

 

That is IF 3bb uses that as auth and not something else, which i don't really know the answer to as i can't test it myself yet and it's damn hard to find anything non-thai about this.

 

PS: If more than plain internet access is involved like tv, coax etc it seems to get hella complicated.

PS2: They could also use PPPoE authentication but then you would prolly have to dump the huawei firmware and find out what the data is, not sure how complicated that would get?

Edited January 29, 2020 by ThomasThBKK

[RedCardinal]

8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

My plan was to replace the 3bb gpon with a unifi nano gpon or similar

I looked into this. Oddly, it seems it might depend on where you are. My best guess is that the underlying network is actually from CAT and they use different vendors in different regions. It's Huawei here but Fiber Home elsewhere. Be prepared that as you move further away from their normal set up the less they'll support you.

8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Do you have any idea if that will work out before i order more and more gear?

Those little Nanos are cheap so won't cost you much to test. I was going to buy one here. More or less and price here for that as from US. My Edgemax 4 was 6K THB.

1 hour ago, muratremix said:

UFiber Nano G looks good but I don't have a GPON / ONT device from 3BB and it means I can't use it even if I use mac address of supplied cheap Huawei router?

Assuming it works, you would probably be able to swap out their <deleted> router and handle PPPoE from your own router. The Nano is only a modem.

19 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

PS: If more than plain internet access is involved like tv, coax etc it seems to get hella complicated.

IPTV no probs. We have 2 Play Boxes and they work fine so long as you route all their traffic to AIS wan. Have them on a separate vlan, and no issues to date. If you're thinking of doing this with cable connection from True then it gets trickier since they don't use fiber.

19 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

PS2: They could also use PPPoE authentication but then you would prolly have to dump the huawei firmware and find out what the data is, not sure how complicated that would get?

No matter what you do there is going to be a PPPoE connection. PPPoE for both AIS and 3bb are handled by the Edgemax. Then load balanced for Lan with exceptions for whatever I want to send to one wan or the other. Worked out very well so far, although I kissed taking the higher AIS package which recently got upgraded to 1Gb. If I had known they were doing that I would have taken it for 650 THB per month with my 50% discount.

[ThomasThBKK]

44 minutes ago, RedCardinal said:

I looked into this. Oddly, it seems it might depend on where you are. My best guess is that the underlying network is actually from CAT and they use different vendors in different regions. It's Huawei here but Fiber Home elsewhere. Be prepared that as you move further away from their normal set up the less they'll support you.

Oommph, thaught i will be able to decide myself if it's a fiberhome or huawei. My neigherbor there has a fiberhome one, would be less ideal if they offer only those as there doesn't seem to be an option to dump the xml config easily, which may or may not be needed.

 

48 minutes ago, RedCardinal said:

Those little Nanos are cheap so won't cost you much to test. I was going to buy one here. More or less and price here for that as from US. My Edgemax 4 was 6K THB.

yeah i am going to do that, only issue is the house is nowhere near done yet, currently installing cat7 and OM3 fiber lines in every room but that's only my own impatience.

 

49 minutes ago, RedCardinal said:

Assuming it works, you would probably be able to swap out their <deleted> router and handle PPPoE from your own router. The Nano is only a modem.

yeah that's the plan, the issue is they might not be willing to give me the PPPoE auth data? Some other isps only use the SN and no PPPoE auth at all for authentication, i am not sure what 3bb does.

Hence my backup plan to dump the config from their huawei routers - to get the PPPoE pw. Did they just tell it to you? 

 

 

I'll use the DM pro as the router as it's also has cloudkey and 8 port switch in there and seems to be able to handle 5gb/s easily with IPS/IDS enabled unlike their older products that aren't edge line -> https://store.ui.com/products/udm-pro

Will put another switch from them with PoE behind it to power the Unifi protect cameras and access points, and then it should be done basically, will get AIS line later and use the DM as load balancer too. 

 

Thanks for your answer, helped me a lot!

 

[RedCardinal]

17 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

the issue is they might not be willing to give me the PPPoE auth data

All the major ISPs will allow you to use Bridge Mode on their routers, and handle PPPoE on your own router. No need to worry about this. Trivial these days.

 

It sounds like you're going to have a super set-up! Good luck with your build.

[muratremix]

I bought a UF-LOCO for testing. 44.95 at Amazon and I'll bring it when I return from the US.

if it works with MAC address change, then I can use it with 3BB.

[muratremix]

I just brought UF-LOCO from the USA to Thailand. After trying for hours, I put it back. It's not working. I even faked SNid with ./gponctl setSnPwd --sn 46-48-54-54-94-F0-XX-XX

I'm back to ugly fiberhome router in bridge mode.

Does anybody wants to buy it? 2700 baht in Thailand, half price if you take it from me lol.

[AgentSmith]

On 1/10/2020 at 2:46 PM, RedCardinal said:

No more cheap ISP routers in bridge mode and their interfering WiFI radios which before resetting with every power cycle.

This doesn't happen with my 3BB router though. Wifi is off and has been staying off for over a year despite lots of intended and unintended power cycles. It doesn't effectively route any traffic anymore. All it does now is tag packets with the right ID and that's only because I'm too lazy to figure out how to set VLAN ID's higher than 15 with DD-WRT. ???? All else is handled by my DD-WRT router and it does this really good. You do have a nice setup though and I will still check with 3BB for one of those devices instead.

 

I also run a Wireguard service on my router for when I'm abroad and using a dodgy wifi connection. Wireguard is bliss for mobile use because of the tiny overhead and fast reconnects. And I have it listen on port 443 making it indistinguishable from HTTPS traffic. Hotels and other places that tend to block VPN's still let my VPN traffic through. Also works great in China although mobile data roaming is a much easier way to circumvent the great firewall for most people.

Edited March 27, 2020 by AgentSmith

[Wombo1]

I'm also following your thread 

 

I have a full Unifi setup as well, and my wife are just starting for a house to buy in Bangkok, this is one of the things on my mind.

Basically dump their crappy stuff, and hopefully put on one of the new UXG-Pro when it comes out. (Replacing my current USG)

[Skiboz]

On 12/27/2019 at 8:59 PM, RedCardinal said:

I've recently upgraded my old load-balanced set-up from AIS + True going through a Dratek router to AIS + 3BB via a new Ubiquiti Edgemax 4 router.

 

Has anyone managed to dump the ISP Router out of their network? AIS gave me a separate ONU and router, so with the right pppoe user/pass and vlan setup I can take their router out. Here's a guide (in Thai) to doing so with a microtik router:

 

https://medium.com/nexthopthai/ใช้เน็ต-ais-fibre-กับ-mikrotik-ipv6-e0e6a5de9fef

 

Just wondering if anybody with 3BB has managed to do the same? My 3BB connection did not come with separate ONU, but looking to swap in a Ubiquiti Nano G if it will work.

 

Anyone tried?

 

As an aside, I got 3BB for 50% off for 6 months by showing them my AIS bill, and AIS for 50% off for a year by taking a new 1 year contract. I now get 1Gb down and 500Mb up with some redundancy for ~1200 THB per month. Not too shabby when I think back 15 years and begging CAT telecom to purchase their POS CDMA dongle because ADSL hadn't fully rolled out.

I am looking to do the same...take out the Huawei 3BB router, currently in Bridge Mode and directly connect the fibre to the SFP WAN port on my UDM Pro

[recom273]

4 hours ago, Skiboz said:

I am looking to do the same...take out the Huawei 3BB router, currently in Bridge Mode and directly connect the fibre to the SFP WAN port on my UDM Pro

 

I use a 3BB ONU to my USG, dispensing of the bridged router, it's good enough for me. 

[Mutt Daeng]

What advantage is to be gained by swapping out the 3BB bridged router for an ONU? 

[recom273]

1 hour ago, Mutt Daeng said:

What advantage is to be gained by swapping out the 3BB bridged router for an ONU? 

It’s marginally faster not that I am concerned about this. I found the router in bridge mode gets rather hot and people say that the router may need turning off and on from time to time, the ONU is pretty solid.

 

For me it’s aesthetics, no horrid boxes with unnecessary antennae to hide, just a little white box inside my network cab. When there is a network problem, the ONU is never the weakest link, it’s plug and play, no settings to check. 
 

I like UniFi kit, but I don’t think I would go to the trouble of upgrading to a UDM pro, troubleshooting when it doesn’t work, and trying to explain to 3BB what you want to do and trying to get some assistance. 

[Mutt Daeng]

OK Thanks for the explanation @recom273. I haven't noticed my 3BB bridged router getting hot and it doesn't have any external antennae.

[OneMoreFarang]

In case nobody mentioned it until now.

Don't think that your ISP router works in the way you think it should work.

I have a TRUE router and I set it to bridge mode, and I couldn't get it to work.

Then I contacted TRUE and they told me that that router does not support bridge mode (even if that was an option is the router GUI). They told me that if I want to use bridge mode then they have to supply me with another router - which was not in stock at that time.

TiT

[JBChiangRai]

I run Ubiquity networks across multiple locations in a private WAN.

 

First thing you need to do is ditch 3BB.

 

Let me explain why.
 

3BB buy from NT who own the international pipes.  
 

NT buy width from overseas (speed Tb/sec), 3BB buy volume from NT (Tb, not Tb/sec).

 

You probably want speed and volume, you immediately have a mismatch in what you are buying and 3BB are selling.

 

So if you buy from NT then they don’t care about your volume, if you buy from 3BB and you transfer a lot of data internationally, they lose money and they will throttle you and lower your service level.

 

NT business contract will never throttle international traffic, 3BB will.

[Mutt Daeng]

On 9/15/2023 at 4:40 PM, recom273 said:

 

I use a 3BB ONU to my USG, dispensing of the bridged router, it's good enough for me. 

@recom273it would be useful (to me) if you could tell me the make & model of the 3BB ONU. Also what config (if any) was required on the ONU? Thanks

[muratremix]

On 9/16/2023 at 9:25 PM, JBChiangRai said:

I run Ubiquity networks across multiple locations in a private WAN.

 

First thing you need to do is ditch 3BB.

 

Let me explain why.
 

3BB buy from NT who own the international pipes.  
 

NT buy width from overseas (speed Tb/sec), 3BB buy volume from NT (Tb, not Tb/sec).

 

You probably want speed and volume, you immediately have a mismatch in what you are buying and 3BB are selling.

 

So if you buy from NT then they don’t care about your volume, if you buy from 3BB and you transfer a lot of data internationally, they lose money and they will throttle you and lower your service level.

 

NT business contract will never throttle international traffic, 3BB will.

This is incorrect. 3BB has it's own International Gateway and 3BB torrenting and downloading speed is pretty good. I'm getting 400-500 Mbit/s easily on a single torrent.

[recom273]

On 9/21/2023 at 5:39 PM, Mutt Daeng said:

@recom273it would be useful (to me) if you could tell me the make & model of the 3BB ONU. Also what config (if any) was required on the ONU? Thanks

It's a Huawei, EG8010H - We had some difficulties when moving in, 3BB didnt really know how to install it. The 3BB "tech" tried to tell me it wouldn't work because I was living in the village, I was too far away from the city, that there was a different protocol used in Issan than the south, etc and they bought 3 different types of ONT to try and solve the issue. So, if you cant get the one mentioned, they have alternatives. There is no config, they are already setup, it's just a basic terminal, one fibre port in - one ethernet port out.