Now is your chance to leave!!

[CGW]

4 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

The vast majority say it.

Is this the same "vast majority" that don't acknowledge that there is a huge ball of fire in the sky trying to fry us daily! So don't take into account "climate forcing"?

[Ventenio]

Another sad problem is that when we tell people back home we are living in Thailand, many will say, "wow, must be beautiful and I love Thai food."  We hear it so much we convince ourselves they are right, forgetting that we live here and see the fires, pollution, traffic, deaths, visa hassles, baht stronger, lack of trust by many, etc.... and they never see that part.  They think of some movie and the romanticizing of living in a jungle with beautiful virgins who are their age while eating great food while getting away from the white man.  lol.   

[Logosone]

The problem is that most depressed old people who are tired of life seem to get some perverse pleasure in spreading their misery onto others. I have just arrived in Chiang Mai, been here for two months now and I came here after a tour of SE Asia, that included Bangkok, Phuket, Hua Hin, Kuala Lumpur and Taiwan. I chose Chiang Mai because it was by far the best place of all them. The pollution was much worse in Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur. I'll have to see how the burning season plays out but in terms of restaurants, ease of getting around (ie traffic) and visa Chiang Mai is far more pleasant than other cities. Traffic in KL, Bangkok and Indonesia is way worse. Even in London. The food in Chiang Mai is absolutely superb, world class restaurants, cheap restaurants, fantastic food courts. Fresh fruit juices can be had anywhere. You can go to a cafe and do archery. Go out to popping night clubs like Zoe in Yellow (and I've seen the best in Spain). Overall Chiang Mai is super place to live, and I'd much rather live here than any other place in SE Asia or Europe (would never move to Africa, North America or Australia).  If you're tired of Chiang Mai, you're tired of life. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Logosone

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

 I'll have to see how the burning season plays out but in terms of restaurants, ease of getting around (ie traffic) and visa Chiang Mai is far more pleasant than other cities.

 

The air quality isn't very good during burning season, but if you are in good physical condition, and use an N95 mask for few weeks that are the worst of it, you won't even notice the problem. Life goes on in Chiang Mai, and the tourists still fill the streets in the Old City. There are two archery ranges to enjoy if you have your own equipment, and the one in the Star Dome complex even rents equipment if you need it. Lovely outdoor 50m range, good pro shop, and a covered snack bar/eating area. The other range is behind Central Festival Mall, and it, too, is in a lovely setting! 18m range and air/con coffee bar. The owner of that one, called 'The Arrow Rest,' is a member of the Thai Olympic team, and a great teacher!

[Logosone]

That is what I suspect, I have lived through the recent major haze of KL and barely noticed it. But of course I will take precautions, filters, masks and such.

 

Thanks so much for the archery tips! I did actually go to The Arrow Rest and saw that the owner is indeed a member of the Thai national team. His wife patiently taught my daugther and wife and myself some of her skills and I have to say she was very good. 

 

That is just one example of the many many things you can do here, geared towards tourists, you can not do elsewhere. I went to shoot guns at a shooting range, no formalities required at all. 

 

The massages alone in Chiang Mai, oh my God, I would move here just for that! I have two masseuses that are like goddesses, amazing massage skills, charming and attractive. 

 

There is a great infrastructure, with supermarkets carrying items from all over the world.

 

I can't see a few weeks of bad air causing me to leave. I mean there is bad air quality in every city in the world. Yes, you can always move to a rural place, but then you would not have the facilities of Thailand's second largest city. Chiang Mai is a great mix. I like it here.

[JimmyJ]

 

"I can't see a few weeks of bad air causing me to leave. I mean there is bad air quality in every city in the world."

 

Duly noted.

[bwpage3]

On 12/31/2019 at 8:59 PM, FolkGuitar said:

 

It's very, very sad. It's a case of "If I'm not happy, how dare you be happy."  The old saying 'Misery loves company' became so common for a reason!  Thoreau wrote; 'most men lead lives of quiet desperation.'

 

 

No, no one is missing the point. The 'point' has been made several thousand times a year in ThaiVisa, going back many, many years. None of this is 'new ideas.'  No one is being 'mislead' by either viewpoint. They've both been stated countless times.  I don't know how long you've been in Thailand, but I see that you are a new member of ThaiVisa. Please believe that we ALL are very aware of what is going on. We just choose to react to it differently.

 

 

Stress-related illnesses FAR out weigh air-pollution related illnesses, at least, according to the World Health Organization. Some stats from WebMed;

Seventy-five percent to 90% of all doctor's office visits are for stress-related ailments and complaints.

Forty-three percent of all adults suffer adverse health effects from stress.

Percent of people who regularly experience physical symptoms caused by stress - 77 %

Regularly experience psychological symptoms caused by stress - 73 %

  Dec 10, 2017

 

As Cerox says "the subconscious fear/stress you create for yourself every time you check the AQI is definitely high, and for some (notice I say some) surely more damage than the pollution itself. "  I'd go so far as to say 'for all,' not just some. Just because you don't feel your pulse quicken doesn't mean you aren't experiencing stress.  If you continually monitor a situation you feel is harmful to you, that WILL produce a physiological stress reaction even if you don't feel it NOW. The long-term effects are deadly.  This is NOT my opinion. This is medical fact.

 

I choose not to stress over the air pollution problem.

I don't hide from it. I wear a mask when I feel the need to do so. 

I also meditate twice daily, because there are stressors all around us, from traffic jams to mother-in-laws.

What are you doing about your stress?

You mean people living in LOS are stressed out?

 

How can that be?

 

What happened to heaven on earth?

[FolkGuitar]

2 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

You mean people living in LOS are stressed out?

How can that be?

What happened to heaven on earth?

 

Unfortunately, it seems that when people get old and out of shape, they can't do the things they used to do, and become very discontented. So instead of paying attention to the positive things all around them, they spend their time graphically charting the negatives, just to validate their own negativity. This becomes a vicious cycle, feeding upon itself, until there is little left but shell of unhappiness.

 

Heaven on earth is still here for many of us. We just pay more attention to the positives and appreciate them.

[CharlieH]

reported post removed and subsequent responses

[Sophon]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

<Snipped>

I can't see a few weeks of bad air causing me to leave. I mean there is bad air quality in every city in the world. Yes, you can always move to a rural place, but then you would not have the facilities of Thailand's second largest city. Chiang Mai is a great mix. I like it here.

Personally I don't really have problems with the air quality, but we aren't talking about "a few weeks of bad air". Last year was especially bad, and decidedly unhealthy for 3-4 months.

[bwpage3]

I just returned to Thailand for the first time in 6 years after living there for 10+ years and moving back to the USA.

 

My interpretations are as follows.

 

Traffic is more congested.

 

Air quality is poor and caused both my wife and I respiratory problems.

 

Rented a car at the Airport and drove the entire way to Isaan. Aside of more traffic and some new road construction, everything appeared to be the same.

 

In Saraburi you could see the air pollution. Not sure if this is from the increase in giant cement plants or what is causing it. Brown Haze in the sky.

 

In her village the nearest market or store is still 48KM away.

 

Nothing has changed in that village. People are just as poor as they were 6 years ago and I see no improvement of quality of life. Worse. No clean water and the muddy supply pond drying up.

 

Cost of local products and goods in the local market still about the same.

 

Ventured out to a Tesco Lotus, seemed to me the costs were much higher.

 

Ventured out in Bangkok on the return.

 

Massive traffic and congestion.

 

Air quality extremely poor.

 

Sukhumvit Road? All the vendors and street food mostly gone, replaced by Terminal 21 and others. Is Bangkok trying to be Paris?

 

Who the heck shops there? Prices are crazy high and the only customers we saw were tour buses from China?

 

McDonald's, Burger King, Carl Junior's, Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, Hooters.

 

Is this Bangkok or a reincarnation of the USA?

 

Even Nana and Soi Cowboy a shadow of their former glory.

 

Lots of the old cool clubs like Climaxx all gone.

 

To me the entire vibe has changed 

 

Hooters is crazy expensive. Who can afford that? And while in there, a giant rat scurrying around the main area by the mechanical bull.

 

Neither my wife nor I are sorry we left and actually this return trip was vindication that leaving when we did was a good idea.

 

Bangkok is the pits now.

 

Could I retire and live in Isaan. No way, it is just to primitive and things are just to far away.

 

Did visit a place called Ton Tot waterfall. It is at a higher elevation with low temps and clean air. They grow lots of pineapple up there. The air was clean and the scenery was nice but once again too far away from anything other than what is provided in a rural village.

 

So the answer is I don't ever see myself retiring there and my wife is of the same opinion. She said it is just too difficult.

 

In the end it all comes down to where you can afford to live, afford to retire and it is all about the money.

 

Who knows what Thailand will change to be in the next 5 or 10 years?

 

I think for those that can survive in the rural area's will be just fine.

 

However, those that live in the city?

 

What happens when the air quality becomes like Shang-Hai or worse?

 

Everyone has their own choice to make no matter how many opinions there are.

 

For us it is no longer a viable option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Unfortunately, it seems that when people get old and out of shape, they can't do the things they used to do, and become very discontented. So instead of paying attention to the positive things all around them, they spend their time graphically charting the negatives, just to validate their own negativity. This becomes a vicious cycle, feeding upon itself, until there is little left but shell of unhappiness.

 

Heaven on earth is still here for many of us. We just pay more attention to the positives and appreciate them.

 

Or maybe reasonable people just want clean air to breathe -- and not have to worry about damaging their health due to air pollution or encasing themselves in masks and purifiers to avoid it approx. 3 months every year.

 

The worst part of the whole sorry affair, of course, is most of it is readily preventable if the local authorities would seriously crack down on the seasonal agricultural burning that creates most of the problem there.

 

The damaging health effects of PM2.5 air pollution have been well and scientifically documented at length. Anyone who chooses to ignore it simply is putting their health at risk.

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[FolkGuitar]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 maybe reasonable people just want clean air to breathe

 

Of course they do. Why even mention it?

 

The worst part of the whole sorry affair, of course, is most of it is readily preventable if the local authorities would seriously crack down on the seasonal agricultural burning that creates most of the problem there.

 

Would that be local Chiang Mai? Local Chiang Rai? Local Myanmar? Local Laos? Or local China?  Burning goes on in all of them.

 

Anyone who chooses to ignore it

 

In all these past years, I can't say that I've ever met anyone who ignores it.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Unfortunately, it seems that when people get old and out of shape, they can't do the things they used to do, and become very discontented. So instead of paying attention to the positive things all around them, they spend their time graphically charting the negatives, just to validate their own negativity. This becomes a vicious cycle, feeding upon itself, until there is little left but shell of unhappiness.

 

 

What about all the young Thais who marched through CM demanding fresh air to breathe ?

  They weren't just moaning and complaining because they were old 

[hmficc]

18 hours ago, hobz said:

If it's true that 80% of carbon is from natural emissions then how come they keep saying that scientists are in consensus that climate change is man made?

It is all about straws and camels’ backs.

[hmficc]

The PM 2.5 has been shown to enter the bloodstream and pass the blood/ brain barrier. Once there the real harm begins. To put it layman’s terms, it destroys those parts of the brain that would compel a normal person to flee that environment. We got a lot of masked zombies walking around CM thinking they are managing the beast which has eaten their brain. 

[cerox]

Where are all these young people "marching" and "demanding" in Chiang Mai? I bet the whole city was in standstill because there were so many people protesting. 55555

Seriously get real people, nobody cares outside.

[Ventenio]

2 hours ago, cerox said:

Where are all these young people "marching" and "demanding" in Chiang Mai? I bet the whole city was in standstill because there were so many people protesting. 55555

Seriously get real people, nobody cares outside.

Only the weak are in CM, afraid to do anything and they simply want to exist on 30 baht noodles and complain to their friends about the world at night....while never doing anything.   Any young person who gave up their career or potential to make real money back home simply isn't smart to begin with.  their "productive years" of working ruined.  People come here because they cannot compete with a civilized society and they enjoy the smoke because then they can complain more and more and more.  Nobody goes to CM with a backbone, since they see so much immoral things and they just go to the nearest temple and take selfies and email mommy about how great it is.  

[Ventenio]

20 hours ago, Logosone said:

Go out to popping night clubs like Zoe in Yellow (and I've seen the best in Spain). Overall Chiang Mai is super place to live, and I'd much rather live here than any other place in SE Asia or Europe (would never move to Africa, North America or Australia).  If you're tired of Chiang Mai, you're tired of life. 

One of the highest AIDS concentrations around CM and CR.  Pollution.  Massive, massive, massive amount of drugs going through.  Many young kids trafficked.  

 

CM is really, really special for a few months if you focus on the positives. YES!!!  But to say you are tired of life if you don't like CM???  I'm not so sure you are being totally honest to yourself.  How many girls are forced alcoholics because of the sex pats?    And this makes it heaven on Earth for you?  Human rights are way more abused in CM than most other cities....but we choose to only enjoy our little bubble.  

[mduras01]

Illusions.

[puck2]

On 1/2/2020 at 10:56 AM, FolkGuitar said:

 

Imagine retiring, your friends, family and children etc come for a visit every year, as they have for the past 19 years, and enjoying a lovely garden-spot vacation, happy to see us and happy to have such a delightful place to visit. That's the reality 'we' live in.

Sorry yours is so different.

 

I guess your "your friends, family and children etc." don't come here in the time between the middle of February until the end of April !

 

Living not in CM, but not far away of the Northern Myanmar border, we leave our home here between the middle of March until about the end of April. Main reason: smoke. We "endured" it a lot of years. Never again! I yearly fought the fire behind our home on the mountain slope, but we cannot fight the "belief" of the fire making people, not only the hilltribes! The smoke-free time is great. One reason I wouldn't like to leave for ever, except for serious health problems.

 

I constantly give the advise to family members, friends etc., please never join us here in the North of Thailand in the time between February and the middle of May because of the possible ugly smoke.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by puck2

[samuttodd]

Looks bad in a lot of places.

These are readings for P.M. 2.5

 

2.5

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by samuttodd

[CharlieH]

As this appears to be about air quality etc, this can close and you can continue in the PINNED topic at the head of the forum.

 

Thanks