After 40 years in Thailand, and having lived and worked previously in many other countries, I am still very happy to be here. I have been married to my lovely Thai wife for 30 years, and we have a super son who is now 19. I have never encountered any of the problems so many of you complain about, and I recently obtained my latest 1 year visa extension based on retirement with 800k baht in less than 2 hours at CW. I have never ever used an agent for this purpose. Good luck to those of you who are leaving, and I hope for your sake the grass turns out to be greener for you wherever you finish up than seems to have been the case here. ATB.

On 12/30/2019 at 12:23 AM, thrilled said:

To retire anywhere comfortably is all about the money. Most people if they have the extra money they wouldn’t retire in Thailand.

Agree 100%, how many people have been lured to Thailand because of the internet and articles that mislead them. IMHO it is almost criminal. Thailand is good for one thing and the government knows it. Short time and out.

On 12/30/2019 at 6:18 AM, Thomas J said:

The other advantage in Mexico is that your life expectancy is significantly shortened meaning you won't have to rely on your savings for too many years. 

I would argue it is the other way around. The pollution in SE asia kills millions of people yearly. Mexico violence against foreigners is nothing compared to the people that die in Thailand from pollution. Horrible place.

 

This is in Italy or Spain i bet

Bangkok is not a good indicator of living costs. Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai are significantly cheaper.

It's a fairly glaring omission from the OP to not mention life is a lot easier here if one takes the time to learn to communicate in Thai. I suspect some of the disgruntled ones never got past Sawasdee Krap, and then wondered why they felt isolated.

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Bangkok is not a good indicator of living costs. Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai are significantly cheaper.

It's a fairly glaring omission from the OP to not mention life is a lot easier here if one takes the time to learn to communicate in Thai. I suspect some of the disgruntled ones never got past Sawasdee Krap, and then wondered why they felt isolated.

 

The more Thai I learned the more I noticed I don't have anything in common with Thai people. 

2 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

The more Thai I learned the more I noticed I don't have anything in common with Thai people. 

yeah there are some things i don't want to know....

3 hours ago, fruitman said:

This is in Italy or Spain i bet

 

That's funny. Anybody know this place and can identify it is in Thailand? Where is that wall?

On December 30, 2019 at 7:18 AM, Thomas J said:

The other advantage in Mexico is that your life expectancy is significantly shortened meaning you won't have to rely on your savings for too many years. 

You're life expectancy breathing the toxic air in Thailand is far greater to shorten you're life.

and this article, 100 baht a day for food???

sure sounds like quality food.

much like the quality expats that eat it.

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Bangkok is not a good indicator of living costs. Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai are significantly cheaper.

It's a fairly glaring omission from the OP to not mention life is a lot easier here if one takes the time to learn to communicate in Thai. I suspect some of the disgruntled ones never got past Sawasdee Krap, and then wondered why they felt isolated.

I learned enough to get by. Personally I agree with the others. I enjoyed my time in Thailand, but it is one of the nastiest places I have ever traveled to.

14 minutes ago, garyk said:

I learned enough to get by. Personally I agree with the others. I enjoyed my time in Thailand, but it is one of the nastiest places I have ever traveled to.

Oh so you been to S.Bronx?

8 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

Oh so you been to S.Bronx?

I said the nastiest places I have ever traveled too. Bronx, I have never been too. Is it a mini Thailand... haha

Honestly, I could off handled the trash every where. I kinda got used to it. But, the air pollution was a different story.  A serious life threatening health hazard. And not just in the cities! The country side was just as bad or worse. Unreal.

Life is short enough, without shortening it on purpose by living in Thailand. My opinion anyway.

On 12/30/2019 at 4:18 PM, Blue bruce said:

after 9 years in Thailand 6 years id Bangkok, 3 years in Buriram. I am out as 0f today. my next plan is california for a few months with my daughter  than onto to puerto Vallarta Mexico or Panama. Sick of the beaucrats and double pricing. sick of the new rules ever other month. next it will be 400,000 medical for everyone. being here is the same as being in North Korea. They can lock you up for no reason for any a mount of time and your you thai wife is entailed to all your assests.  ask me i found out. I'm out of a place  as bad as North Korea. good luck

The thing is they want falang residents out.

 

Thais are very nationalistic and we've become surplus to requirements as far as their govt is concerned. The only Thais who will miss us are those who personally benefit financially from our presence. 

 

Saying that I can't remember the last time I got a 'thank you' when I paid my fare on one of Pattaya's baht buses nor one that did not have a sullen look on his face.

3 hours ago, tlandtday said:

yeah there are some things i don't want to know....

I had an old ex pat pal in Pattaya who having lived a long time in the LOS had learned reasonable Thai.

 

But he told me that he wished he had not and so remained unaware of what the locals especially the bargirls said about us. Very hateful remarks indeed according to him.

 

He said the shamed expressions their faces were a sight to behold when he let on he'd understood what they had been saying.

 

However having heard it he understood why some of 'em pulled the 'My friend no have key' stunt when their phone rang back in the falang's hotel room.

22 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

The thing is they want falang residents out.

 

Thais are very nationalistic and we've become surplus to requirements as far as their govt is concerned. The only Thais who will miss us are those who personally benefit financially from our presence. 

 

Saying that I can't remember the last time I got a 'thank you' when I paid my fare on one of Pattaya's baht buses nor one that did not have a sullen look on his face.

I was just reading the thread where a Thai family transporting Papayas to the market after a tire blowout lost control of their pickup truck and slammed into a tree destroying the truck and livelihood but luckily escaping with their lives, instead of showing some compassion for the poor family that just had their lives turned upside down.

   All except one, had a snide  remark to make about Thais  and Thailand.  "they probably had their tire overinflated" "truck was probably overloaded" "Ha Ha Ha we are so smart, they are so stupid" Indicative of posts in this forum 

  Personally I don't think this attitude is isolated in this forum, so  is it any wonder that they might have a sullen look in their face when they look at as? I am surprised they tolerated us for so long. 

 

On 12/30/2019 at 1:36 PM, Classic Ray said:

90 day reporting in person is unnecessary,

Yes, it's a Thai thing so just send a Thai to do all the 90 day BS, that's what I do.

 

I want nothing to do with it.

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I was just reading the thread where a Thai family transporting Papayas to the market after a tire blowout lost control of their pickup truck and slammed into a tree destroying the truck and livelihood but luckily escaping with their lives, instead of showing some compassion for the poor family that just had their lives turned upside down.

   All except one, had a snide  remark to make about Thais  and Thailand.  "they probably had their tire overinflated" "truck was probably overloaded" "Ha Ha Ha we are so smart, they are so stupid" Indicative of posts in this forum 

  Personally I don't think this attitude is isolated in this forum, so  is it any wonder that they might have a sullen look in their face when they look at as? I am surprised they tolerated us for so long. 

 

I was just saying that their false smiles and sweet words often conceal their true feelings about us particularly where bar staff are involved.

 

I don't expect a smile from a baht bus driver but a brief 'thank you' would be nice when you hand over money no matter who you are dealing with. That's just normal every day courtesy where most of us are concerned.

 

Apart from those I mentioned above, hotel staff and the IOs at the airport few of us visitors have much interaction with the rest of the Thai population in general.

 

I can understand their nationalism but we come to the LOS as paying guests on holiday not as uninvited nor unwanted immigrants but that's how we are often regarded nowadays. Sometimes you can sense an underlying animosity.

 

And truth be told expats are only paying guests as well whether they like it or not. If the Thai govt take the notion they can be booted out in the wink of an eye regardless of how many Thai families are dependent on them. 

 

 If it were not for the women few falang men would ever have thought of holidaying in the LOS. As far as Pattaya is concerned the bar girls are all it's got going for it. Much the same but to a lesser degree can be said for Bangkok and Phuket as well.

4 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

I was just saying that their false smiles and sweet words often conceal their true feelings about us particularly where bar staff are involved.

 

I don't expect a smile from a baht bus driver but a brief 'thank you' would be nice when you hand over money no matter who you are dealing with. That's just normal every day courtesy where most of us are concerned.

 

Apart from those I mentioned above, hotel staff and the IOs at the airport few of us visitors have much interaction with the rest of the Thai population in general.

 

I can understand their nationalism but we come to the LOS as paying guests on holiday not as uninvited nor unwanted immigrants but that's how we are often regarded nowadays. Sometimes you can sense an underlying animosity.

 

And truth be told expats are only paying guests as well whether they like it or not. If the Thai govt take the notion they can be booted out in the wink of an eye regardless of how many Thai families are dependent on them. 

 

 If it were not for the women few falang men would ever have thought of holidaying in the LOS. As far as Pattaya is concerned the bar girls are all it's got going for it. Much the same but to a lesser degree can be said for Bangkok and Phuket as well.

While all true,and I share some of your frustrations,  let's not forget that we have a very negative attitude about them, and I think they know it. 

How do you like people that dont like you? not very much I am willing to bet.

And how about our fake smiles? where we wai and smille, and when we think they cant hear as we trash them. 

One might argue that it is a chicken and egg issue, and what came first. But I have being in Thailand for over thirteen years now, and I have seen it change and IMO I think that it is because they are on to as. Well some of as ,but they paint as all with the same brush as we paint them all with the same bush.   

This is their country, their way of life, for better or for worse, They don't need to change we have too, and if we don't want to (and there might be good reasons why we might not want to) then we need to go someplace more conducive to our needs.   

Personally I like Thailand the way it is,or was,  If I want it it to be just like the west I would had stayed there. Some of as want some things to change, but not others, we want our cake and eat it too. 

I don't know, am I making any sense to you?

100 baht/day for food if you go local? Here's what I think that would mean in today's world:

 

fruit: only in-season and cheapest possible varieties of local oranges, mangoes, papayas, and bananas. Special occasion treats/only in small quantities: watermelon, pineapple, jack fruit, tamarind. Off-limits: grapes, kiwis, apples, berries, avocados, dates, durian, virtually all imported fruit.

 

vegetables: in-season cucumbers, small tomatoes, prik kii nuu peppers, cabbage, squash, pak bung, fresh herbs.  Special occasion treats and only in small quantities: broccoli, cauliflower. Off limits: bell peppers, anything labelled "organic," anything imported other than from China.

 

meat: only very small quantities, and only cheapest cuts. Off-limits: imported beef, lamb, poultry, etc.

 

seafood: local fish, cheapest varieties you can find. Off-limits: salmon, tuna, shrimp, canned anchovies, anything imported

 

dairy: on 100 baht per day budget might as well forget about it. No cheese, yogurt, butter whatsoever. Small container of milk to add sparingly to your milk. Think coffee mate, brother.

 

rice and starches: you'd probably have to go for cheapest varieties of rice you could find. No hom mali for you, partner.

 

nuts: only nuts you'll be eating are peanuts. Everything else is way out of your budget, my friend.

 

chocolate: maybe a Hersey's almond bar for Christmas, or your birthday. That's about it.

 

condiments: Hope you like your food plain and bland because the costs of condiments adds up quickly. Expensive cooking oils like olive oil are out of the question.

 

beverages: Forget water and beverages in single use bottles. Forget fresh brewed coffee; instant coffee will seem like a luxury after a while. Tea. That's it. Drinking water from 20 liter bottles is the only way you'll keep to your budget unless you want to go the rain water route.

 

sundries: non-edible groceries like toiletries, laundry soap, cleaning supplies, batteries, etc. have to be figured in to your grocery budget, don't they?

 

eating out: OK, so let's talk about the three meals a day for 30 baht/pop myth. Yeah, that can be done for one day, maybe even a week or so, but it's simply not a sustainable diet over the long term in terms of calories or dietary balance. It's generally small amounts of inexpensive protein and small amounts of vegetables cooked in cheap vegetable oil served with either white rice or processed noodles. Limited vegetables, no fruit, no nuts, no dairy, all of which will add to your food budget when you consume them. Also, restaurant prices have increased in recent years and portion sizes have shrunk, so you can easily find yourself ordering "phiset" larger portions to compensate for the smaller portions.

 

For the record, eating a diet of 100% meals cooked at-home, low pork and chicken meat consumption, high seafood consumption (salmon and shrimp), Western style consumption of dairy products (milk, yogurt, butter, cheese), high consumption of imported walnuts, almonds, pistachios, blueberries, apples, imported dates, dark chocolate, olive oil, occasional avocados, less than $25/year in junk food, zero alcohol, but including household sundries as detailed above as well as extremely low food spoilage or wastage at home, and significant offsets to fruit and vegetable expenditures from extensive vegetable gardens and fruit orchards, I still spent over 400 baht per day on food last year. I do have a realistic plan to reduce these food costs to approx 300/day in the coming year. I plan to do this by eating more peanuts in lieu of  imported nuts, cutting back on salmon and shrimp consumption, eating more local fruit (esp homegrown mangoes, papayas and bananas), getting even more production out of vegetable gardens, eating more steamed and roasted vegetables to avoid expensive and unhealthy condiments, limiting the amount of dark chocolate consumed, avoiding junk food entirely.

 

The main point I want to stress is that whether or not you label a diet as "local" or Western (the lines of distinction between the two are becoming blurred), 100/baht per day for food is not realistic on a sustained basis. That's 3,000 baht/month. Yes, there are Thais who manage to adhere to this budget range (almost always out of stark necessity), but IMHO that diet is generally compromised in terms of nutritional quality, quantity, and variety to such a degree that it will begin to take a toll on your health and longevity before long.

Edited January 4, 20206 yr by Gecko123

On 12/30/2019 at 5:23 PM, thrilled said:

To retire anywhere comfortably is all about the money. Most people if they have the extra money they wouldn’t retire in Thailand.

As a single, wealthy and healthy retiree I've tried many, but there's no country better than Thailand. e.g 1 hour per year to renew visa....warm year-round climate... beautiful, younger, slim girlfriends (with "normal" jobs!) in many different cities/provinces... able to drive own vehicle... feeling of safety when travelling to all parts of the country.

Life's too short for a retiree to be chasing ugly, old fatties in the Western countries. God Bless You Thailand!

Edited January 4, 20206 yr by Nemises

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

While all true,and I share some of your frustrations,  let's not forget that we have a very negative attitude about them, and I think they know it. 

How do you like people that dont like you? not very much I am willing to bet.

And how about our fake smiles? where we wai and smille, and when we think they cant hear as we trash them. 

One might argue that it is a chicken and egg issue, and what came first. But I have being in Thailand for over thirteen years now, and I have seen it change and IMO I think that it is because they are on to as. Well some of as ,but they paint as all with the same brush as we paint them all with the same bush.   

This is their country, their way of life, for better or for worse, They don't need to change we have too, and if we don't want to (and there might be good reasons why we might not want to) then we need to go someplace more conducive to our needs.   

Personally I like Thailand the way it is,or was,  If I want it it to be just like the west I would had stayed there. Some of as want some things to change, but not others, we want our cake and eat it too. 

I don't know, am I making any sense to you?

You are making sense but I do not live in Thailand, I just visit Pattaya regularly for long holidays and have done so since 1999, 20 years ago. I actually first came in 1984 but it was a different world then.

 

Thai people and falangs have both developed negative attitudes about each other and it's probably usually quite understandable.

 

Pattaya and probably the rest of Thailand has become commercialised to such a degree that falangs are now taken for granted. We're no longer the welcome guests we used to be but an unwanted but necessary inconvenience as far as our spending power is concerned.

 

We're often resented particularly by Thai men and who can really blame them when they see us getting hold of their women and spending more in an evening than they can earn in a week.

 

Some say the attitude is all together different out in the boondocks but I know nothing about that. I just concern myself about Pattaya and may soon decide I no longer wish come here (Pattaya). But that's mainly because of the strong baht.

 

But a deteriorating attitude is definitely another strong factor along with the lack of pavements in busy sois such as Bhukaow and Diana. When you've seen a couple of nasty accidents involving falang pedestrians it makes you only too aware of what could happen to yourself. Especially as you get older.

 

The immigration and visa issues don't help either. I've said before I've never had an IO at the airport smile nor say welcome to Thailand when I've arrived for a holiday. That's not a good first impression for anyone. 

9 hours ago, garyk said:

I would argue it is the other way around. The pollution in SE asia kills millions of people yearly. Mexico violence against foreigners is nothing compared to the people that die in Thailand from pollution. Horrible place.

 

I used to go to Mexico all the time. I wouldn't even consider going there now with all the drug cartel violence, kidnappings, etc. going on. Thankfully I chose correctly 20 years ago when I picked SE Asia over Mexico as a place to be.

 

During my 20 years here I have lived in some of the main countries here. The main thing I learned is that things change. Cambodia used to be a good place to live, cheap, safe, lots of fun. Now it's good for only a 2 or three day visit if even that. Treat any of these places as temporary, that is maybe 5 years, and then go to the next one. You will be much happier in the long run.

Thailand is not a retirement destination and it is misleading to promote it as such. Thailand is a country that issues 1 year visa extensions to those over 50 meeting certain financial requirements. Currently this visa extension can be extended for one year at a time if you meet the financial criteria on renewal. In the last year these criteria have been changed at short notice without grandfathering, thus Thailand is no longer a 'retirement' destination.

3 hours ago, yogi100 said:

The thing is they want falang residents out.

 

Thais are very nationalistic and we've become surplus to requirements as far as their govt is concerned. The only Thais who will miss us are those who personally benefit financially from our presence. 

 

Saying that I can't remember the last time I got a 'thank you' when I paid my fare on one of Pattaya's baht buses nor one that did not have a sullen look on his face.

The only Thais who will miss us are those who personally benefit financially from our presence.

An absolutely truthful statement!

Explains it all! What a situation one has brought oneself onto? Could it be an incompatibility of communities or the high nosed attitude of the rich?

Everyone loves money - but that love is not genuine, faithful or beautiful!!! One must try to find love to oneself, not to ones purse!

IMHO

La Jolla, San Diego. The first pic that is.

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

You are making sense but I do not live in Thailand, I just visit Pattaya regularly for long holidays and have done so since 1999, 20 years ago. I actually first came in 1984 but it was a different world then.

 

Thai people and falangs have both developed negative attitudes about each other and it's probably usually quite understandable.

 

Pattaya and probably the rest of Thailand has become commercialised to such a degree that falangs are now taken for granted. We're no longer the welcome guests we used to be but an unwanted but necessary inconvenience as far as our spending power is concerned.

 

We're often resented particularly by Thai men and who can really blame them when they see us getting hold of their women and spending more in an evening than they can earn in a week.

 

Some say the attitude is all together different out in the boondocks but I know nothing about that. I just concern myself about Pattaya and may soon decide I no longer wish come here (Pattaya). But that's mainly because of the strong baht.

 

But a deteriorating attitude is definitely another strong factor along with the lack of pavements in busy sois such as Bhukaow and Diana. When you've seen a couple of nasty accidents involving falang pedestrians it makes you only too aware of what could happen to yourself. Especially as you get older.

 

The immigration and visa issues don't help either. I've said before I've never had an IO at the airport smile nor say welcome to Thailand when I've arrived for a holiday. That's not a good first impression for anyone. 

 

Thai men dont resent us for taking their women. Remember farang men are taking a lot of their rejects complete with children. They are probably having a good laugh. Middle class women will nearly always prefer middle class thai men over farang

13 minutes ago, madmen said:

 

Thai men dont resent us for taking their women. Remember farang men are taking a lot of their rejects complete with children. They are probably having a good laugh. Middle class women will nearly always prefer middle class thai men over farang

 

i have many middle class professional male friends with families here, to be honest what the average farang male gets up to with local women is not something they are remotely interested in. to be honest, as has been said here before, the vast majority of foreigners marry women from the lower, less well educated class such women are of absolutely no interest to middle, upper class thai guys.

There is no way to retire comfortably in Thailand because you don't know what non grandfathered changes are coming. Being financially very secure might not help you if they throw some non financial curve ball at retirees.

On 12/30/2019 at 3:49 PM, orchis said:

an infomercial should at least get the facts right

An informercial is not journalism.  Next thing you know you’ll be telling me that you can’t really repair a massive hole in a boat by simply spraying some rubber gunk on it.  

3 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Some say the attitude is all together different out in the boondocks but I know nothing about that. I just concern myself about Pattaya and may soon decide I no longer wish come here (Pattaya). But that's mainly because of the strong baht.

 

I have a theory that the majority of people complaining about attitudes of the Thais in recent years are talking about Pattaya.  

 

I mean, it’s not like just in current sidebar right now there are stories about Russians being arrested for having sex on the beach and a British man that went on a crime spree.  

 

I know that correlation doesn’t equal causation but it’s hard to deny the Thais in Pattaya aren’t exactly seeing the best of the best in terms of western expats/tourists.