Chiang Mai Air Quality and Pollution

[Cheesekraft]

The AQI has been registering over 150 over the last few days, it looks like we are in for a much longer and worse burning season this year, if this is any indication. The 2018 thread seems outdated as well.

[Pravda]

It's been registering for the last few months and even before it wasn't near anything acceptable.

 

Don't you guys go back to your own countries from time to time and just notice the difference how much better you breathe?

 

 

 

 

[blackcab]

Today is a bad air day in Bangkok aswell.

[Puchaiyank]

Thank you for bringing up the AQI concern.

 

I related this concern to a poster who wanted to come to Thailand and his questions were only visa related...

 

Received a nasty response from a TVF regular blasting me for bringing up the subject of air quality when the question was only about a visa...

 

Ostrich place their head in the sand to keep from dealing with reality...wonder where my poster friend has his head?   ????

[Pravda]

12 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

wonder where my poster friend has his head? 

[SoilSpoil]

Thw whole country, even Phuket, are in orange or red. Thailand us sucking up its own air pollution.

[villagefarang]

Really bad up here in the mountains.????

 

[Puchaiyank]

I wear a facemask daily now when I go outside...something I swore to myself I would never do...helps some but some polluted air still gets through...clean something like micro particles of sand out of the corners of each every morning...

 

Nothing to see here folks...just some old expats whining about our wonderful Thailand...????

[SoilSpoil]

2 hours ago, villagefarang said:

Really bad up here in the mountains.????

 

Shame the air quality in the rest if the Chiang Rai province is unhealthy for 7 to 8 months a year. Could be so beautiful. I sadly left Chiang Rai because of the pollution.

[motdaeng]

3 hours ago, SoilSpoil said:

Shame the air quality in the rest if the Chiang Rai province is unhealthy for 7 to 8 months a year. Could be so beautiful. I sadly left Chiang Rai because of the pollution.

unfortunately i have to agree with you! we would like to move as well,

but personal commitment do not allow it right now. since a few weeks

our air purifiers are in use, even the burning season hasn't started yet ... 

[villagefarang]

Personally, I only find it unpleasant for maybe three months a year and each year is different.  Last year was pretty bad, I must admit.  We are very healthy, pretty flexible and adapt to our environment, doing different things and different times of the year.  We have no desire to leave the area and we are very happy here most of the year.  We went hiking this last weekend with friends and while it was foggy with a lot of low cloud cover, the temperature was in the low teens and the air moist and fresh.  When the mist cleared on occasion there was still pretty good visibility.

 

 

[canopy]

It would be interesting if you could bring an air quality meter up there the next time to compare it with lower elevations. And/or a new picture to show changes in visibility as the dry season progresses. In my experience people that care about their health and fitness a great deal have more concern about air pollution than those that are not. So your attitude that you can take it better than the average person is surprising. PM 2.5 will enter your bloodstream just as easily as the next person, probably more if you are doing vigorous workouts, and this isn't good for wellness.

 

[Samuel Smith]

24 minutes ago, canopy said:

It would be interesting if you could bring an air quality meter up there the next time to compare it with lower elevations. 

 

Took my meter up to 1500m in early March last year.  pm2.5 reading about 50.  That's AQI of 137.  

[villagefarang]

1 hour ago, canopy said:

It would be interesting if you could bring an air quality meter up there the next time to compare it with lower elevations. And/or a new picture to show changes in visibility as the dry season progresses. In my experience people that care about their health and fitness a great deal have more concern about air pollution than those that are not. So your attitude that you can take it better than the average person is surprising. PM 2.5 will enter your bloodstream just as easily as the next person, probably more if you are doing vigorous workouts, and this isn't good for wellness.

 

In my experience, many of the people demanding perfection from Thailand and the environment are people who neglect their health on so many levels.  Many smoke, drink, are overweight, drive dangerously and have anger problems.  

 

I do sometimes have slight allergy like symptoms but have no heart or lung issues and I do modify my exercise and lifestyle depending on the weather and how I feel.  If I am wrong and my environment knocks a few years off my life expectancy, and I die at 90 instead of 95, like many of my relatives, I will accept that.  My mother smoked most of her life, only stopping in her later years, and still lived into her 90s.  One of my greatest worries, is living too long.

 

I am happy to let people make choices about their own lives and how they want to live but I expect to be allowed the same freedom of choice.  The internet being what it is, we mainly hear from the angry unhappy folks and I simply want to represent my own personal opinions which are somewhat less negative.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by villagefarang

[canopy]

47 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

In my experience, many of the people demanding perfection from Thailand and the environment are people who neglect their health on so many levels.  Many smoke, drink, are overweight, drive dangerously and have anger problems. 

Aside from this I completely agree with everything you said and I really enjoy and admire your upbeat attitude and incredible photos and inspiring experiences. To give you a comparison expats in my area tend to come from working class backgrounds, are overweight, in poor health, no fitness, poor diet, and their only care in the world seems to be saving a few baht at makro. They don't talk about air pollution and astonishingly I find many are in fact out there burning their plastic trash in their yards just like the thai's do. They don't have air purifiers or air monitors and they're bored to death if you bring the air up while drinking their cheap chang in front of them. I have yet to meet one expat that cares about the air pollution or even the environment. Thailand seems to attract a certain type of individual. I see there are a few concerned here at Thaivisa and that's good. But it's not a popular topic as clearly the lions share of expats are lamenting visa changes, TAT numbers, government competency, and those sorts of things which get more posts in a day than this subject will in a year.

 

And asking for clean air to breathe is not asking for perfection. It's asking the minority to stop being selfish and ruining the air everyone else is breathing and making innocent people sick and die for no good reason. It's just asking for the most basic courtesy and concern for others sharing the air, not perfection.

 

Finally, saying something just lops say the last 2 years off your life would indeed be ideal, but that's not how it works. You'll get ground down 2 years earlier. Everything goes bad 2 years before it should. You lose 2 good years, not 2 bad ones trimmed off the end. It can be difficult for some to accept part of short time we have on the earth being stolen by inconsiderate people whose habits would not be tolerated one bit where we come from and surely in the future, not in Thailand either.

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by canopy

[Bill97]

1 hour ago, canopy said:

To give you a comparison expats in my area tend to come from working class backgrounds, are overweight, in poor health, no fitness, poor diet, and their only care in the world seems to be saving a few baht at makro. They don't talk about air pollution and astonishingly I find many are in fact out there burning their plastic trash in their yards just like the thai's do. They don't have air purifiers or air monitors and they're bored to death if you bring the air up while drinking their cheap chang in front of them. I have yet to meet one expat that cares about the air pollution or even the environment. Thailand seems to attract a certain type of individual. I see there are a few concerned here at Thaivisa and that's good. But it's not a popular topic as clearly the lions share of expats are lamenting visa changes, TAT numbers, government competency, and those sorts of things which get more posts in a day than this subject will in a year.

 

What is your area?  I would like to know so I can avoid it and the farangs who reside there.

[villagefarang]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

And asking for clean air to breathe is not asking for perfection. It's asking the minority to stop being selfish and ruining the air everyone else is breathing and making innocent people sick and die for no good reason. It's just asking for the most basic courtesy and concern for others sharing the air, not perfection.

You can ask all you want but I am not sure your asking will change anything.  I am more about trying to control my own life than I am about trying to ask others to accommodate my wishlist.  I take the same attitude on the roads.  It is up to me to keep myself safe and not allow anyone to kill me.  I don't like to play the blame game.

 

I acknowledge there is a place for crusaders and activists but that is not my calling in life.????

Edited November 13, 2019 by villagefarang

[villagefarang]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

2 hours ago, canopy said:

To give you a comparison expats in my area tend to come from working class backgrounds, are overweight, in poor health, no fitness, poor diet, and their only care in the world seems to be saving a few baht at makro. They don't talk about air pollution and astonishingly I find many are in fact out there burning their plastic trash in their yards just like the thai's do. They don't have air purifiers or air monitors and they're bored to death if you bring the air up while drinking their cheap chang in front of them. I have yet to meet one expat that cares about the air pollution or even the environment. Thailand seems to attract a certain type of individual. I see there are a few concerned here at Thaivisa and that's good. But it's not a popular topic as clearly the lions share of expats are lamenting visa changes, TAT numbers, government competency, and those sorts of things which get more posts in a day than this subject will in a year.

 

What is your area?  I would like to know so I can avoid it and the farangs who reside there.

I would most definitely swear off all farang contact, if I were limited to that demographic.

[Ron jeremy]

3 hours ago, villagefarang said:

In my experience, many of the people demanding perfection from Thailand and the environment are people who neglect their health on so many levels.  Many smoke, drink, are overweight, drive dangerously and have anger problems.  

 

I do sometimes have slight allergy like symptoms but have no heart or lung issues and I do modify my exercise and lifestyle depending on the weather and how I feel.  If I am wrong and my environment knocks a few years off my life expectancy, and I die at 90 instead of 95, like many of my relatives, I will accept that.  My mother smoked most of her life, only stopping in her later years, and still lived into her 90s.  One of my greatest worries, is living too long.

 

I am happy to let people make choices about their own lives and how they want to live but I expect to be allowed the same freedom of choice.  The internet being what it is, we mainly hear from the angry unhappy folks and I simply want to represent my own personal opinions which are somewhat less negative.

 

 

What a rediculously stupid thing to say

u know the air is killing you, but u accept it knowing it’s going to take years off your life

and to those that go outside with masks on!!!!

what a life

i guess living in a place with clean air may not be a god idea?

[villagefarang]

2 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

What a rediculously stupid thing to say

And the name calling begins.????

[Ron jeremy]

24 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

And the name calling begins.????

No name calling

just fact!

but I guess living in your retirement years wearing a mask is a great life

who wouldn’t want to be living this way in their golden years ????????????????

Edited November 13, 2019 by Ron jeremy

[stuartd1]

Looking at the historic AQICN site data is quite interesting.

Unfortunately I cannot find any year on year data that would indicate long term trends.

I feel that recent guidelines from civic leaders regarding ways of minimising the effects of the forthcoming season by hiding indoors with an air purifier to be of concern. Sounds like they've given up any attempts at prevention!

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by stuartd1
Pasted wrong image

[Samuel Smith]

1 hour ago, stuartd1 said:

Looking at the historic AQICN site data is quite interesting.

Unfortunately I cannot find any year on year data that would indicate long term trends.

I feel that recent guidelines from civic leaders regarding ways of minimising the effects of the forthcoming season by hiding indoors with an air purifier to be of concern. Sounds like they've given up any attempts at prevention!

 

Can you post the link to that historic data page.

[Samuel Smith]

31 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

Can you post the link to that historic data page.

OK found it.

 

http://aqicn.org/city/chiang-mai/

 

Have to scroll down the page.

[Samuel Smith]

On 11/13/2019 at 9:07 AM, Samuel Smith said:

Took my meter up to 1500m in early March last year.  pm2.5 reading about 50.  That's AQI of 137.  

The daily average AQI for Chiang Mai on that day was 128.

[Radar501]

I understand from other topics on this subject that Mai and Rai provinces have by-laws prohibiting slash and burning of farmland.     On a hazy day, it surely wouldn't be difficult for those council officials authorised to enforce the legislation to locate the 'smoking gun' in the countryside and deal with the transgressor.

 

My bet is that there are very few prosecutions.   Along with regular crackdowns on prostitution, speeding, littering etc etc, very little seems to improve in the long term in Thailand.   The culture of complacency and corruption are too ingrained in society for any effective change.

 

I love the Northern Region, but I haven't been up that way for over a decade because of the smog.   I'm only one, so my absence will not be felt economically, but how many others are there who have taken a similar stance?

[canopy]

 

14 hours ago, Radar501 said:

it surely wouldn't be difficult for those council officials authorised to enforce the legislation to locate the 'smoking gun'

They have up to the minute satellite images showing every single fire in vivid detail. They can see each fire being set and how big they get.

 

14 hours ago, Radar501 said:

My bet is that there are very few prosecutions.

Why should they because it's all Burma's fault. Lately that's what they are telling the people. It's never the thai people's fault. Just cast blame, do not much of anything, and wait for the rain. Works like a charm every year. Why would they change such an easy and successful strategy.

 

[Thailand]

On 11/13/2019 at 11:04 AM, canopy said:

Aside from this I completely agree with everything you said and I really enjoy and admire your upbeat attitude and incredible photos and inspiring experiences. To give you a comparison expats in my area tend to come from working class backgrounds, are overweight, in poor health, no fitness, poor diet, and their only care in the world seems to be saving a few baht at makro. They don't talk about air pollution and astonishingly I find many are in fact out there burning their plastic trash in their yards just like the thai's do. They don't have air purifiers or air monitors and they're bored to death if you bring the air up while drinking their cheap chang in front of them. I have yet to meet one expat that cares about the air pollution or even the environment. Thailand seems to attract a certain type of individual. I see there are a few concerned here at Thaivisa and that's good. But it's not a popular topic as clearly the lions share of expats are lamenting visa changes, TAT numbers, government competency, and those sorts of things which get more posts in a day than this subject will in a year.

 

And asking for clean air to breathe is not asking for perfection. It's asking the minority to stop being selfish and ruining the air everyone else is breathing and making innocent people sick and die for no good reason. It's just asking for the most basic courtesy and concern for others sharing the air, not perfection.

 

Finally, saying something just lops say the last 2 years off your life would indeed be ideal, but that's not how it works. You'll get ground down 2 years earlier. Everything goes bad 2 years before it should. You lose 2 good years, not 2 bad ones trimmed off the end. It can be difficult for some to accept part of short time we have on the earth being stolen by inconsiderate people whose habits would not be tolerated one bit where we come from and surely in the future, not in Thailand either.

 

I think you are living and moving in the wrong circles. Just about every foreigner I know here does not burn their trash in their back yards,in fact nor do any of the many Thai's I know, and in fact do care about pollution and the environment. And as for the number of posts related, there are hundreds of them around this forum and the forum as a whole.

[canopy]

Not so easy. There isn't even any garbage service where I am. Early on i asked the high ups what to do with garbage and they said to burn it or dump it in the national forest. This is what everyone does. I refuse to do either of these and haul mine to public dumpsters 50 kilometers away. I've learned the government wants our village to get dumpsters but the people in the village successfully fight against it. They all enjoy burning plastic and will never willingly submit to newfangled ideas pushed on them from outsiders. And as I said there are expats merrily burning their garbage along with them. And one has to wonder what these millions of toxic household fires lit on a daily basis are doing to the atmosphere. It may be a larger part of the problem than we know.

 

20 hours ago, Thailand said:

And as for the number of posts related, there are hundreds of them

That's nothing! To me these types of issues are far more important than the hot topics that get more posts in a day than this ever will in a year. I am appalled people are killing each other with the burning which negatively impacts the health of 100% of the population in the area (expats included) yet most on thaivisa cannot be bothered to even read about or understand it. And if they do, they yawn it off and talk about something else. Unbelievable to me.

 

[SoilSpoil]

3 hours ago, canopy said:

Not so easy. There isn't even any garbage service where I am. Early on i asked the high ups what to do with garbage and they said to burn it or dump it in the national forest. This is what everyone does. I refuse to do either of these and haul mine to public dumpsters 50 kilometers away. I've learned the government wants our village to get dumpsters but the people in the village successfully fight against it. They all enjoy burning plastic and will never willingly submit to newfangled ideas pushed on them from outsiders. And as I said there are expats merrily burning their garbage along with them. And one has to wonder what these millions of toxic household fires lit on a daily basis are doing to the atmosphere. It may be a larger part of the problem than we know.

 

That's nothing! To me these types of issues are far more important than the hot topics that get more posts in a day than this ever will in a year. I am appalled people are killing each other with the burning which negatively impacts the health of 100% of the population in the area (expats included) yet most on thaivisa cannot be bothered to even read about or understand it. And if they do, they yawn it off and talk about something else. Unbelievable to me.

 

When I lived in Chiang Rai it was the same. No garbage pick up and everyone burns. We refused, used organic waste as fertilizer and chicken feed, and plastic we took back to the points of sales. The 7-11s, Big C and Makros all have garbage bins. When going shopping, we first 'returned' the packaging of the previous visit.