Chiang Mai Air Quality and Pollution

[canopy]

21 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Again uninformed.

You got it backwards. I have lived among these people for a long time, have observed a great deal, and can converse in their language pretty well. I am not uninformed. They burn everything from sugar to rice. I am not uninformed about this. They like burning things and burn everything they can from plastic trash to sweeping up every small leaf. I am not uninformed about this. The rural people not only don't care about the air quality but mostly don't even know it's smoke in the air and think it is just fog. I am not uninformed about this. The people willingly burn what they want and others tolerate it and don't complain. I am not uninformed about this. On the other hand you trying to link the entire burning problem to evil corn businesses is pretty out there in la la land. What a cop out trying to find such a ridiculous way to blame the evil rich for the poor people's bad habits. Why don't you tell a few corn farmers they burn because they are forced to by evil businesses. I am sure they will get a good laugh. You have a lot to learn.

 

[Dante99]

6 minutes ago, canopy said:

you trying to link the entire burning problem to evil corn businesses is pretty out there in la la land.

I never suggested that the entire burning problem was linked to the corn business.  It is you out there in la la land to think that I have.

 

Your suggestion that nobody cares about the burning is uninformed.  There are a lot of Thais who care about it.

 

10 minutes ago, canopy said:

The rural people not only don't care about the air quality but mostly don't even know it's smoke in the air and think it is just fog.

I live in a rural area and my neighbors are well aware of the difference between smoke and fog.  They also care about air quality, it is not just the more educated people who are aware and concerned. 

 

[canopy]

It is encouraging to hear you've run into Thai's in the countryside who are aware of the pollution problem and also are concerned about it. The first step of solving any problem is awareness.

 

[Sparkles]

Like many issues in this country education is the key and that takes generations to overcome the problems be it litter , on road behaviour ,mounting debt etc. We don't hear of many positive messages from Government to help people understand that they are poisoning themselves and their families just threats of fines which are never forthcoming. Going to take decades

[suet]

Where is a good place to go to avoid the smoke during this time? Just moved here and the smoke is already an issue. thx

 

[SoilSpoil]

1 hour ago, suet said:

Where is a good place to go to avoid the smoke during this time? Just moved here and the smoke is already an issue. thx

 

The Andaman coast in the south would be your best bet. 

[samuttodd]

I like to ride my bike for 40 inutes or so in the morning,  before it gets too hot.   I live down along the river,  and there are some fish packing factories that managed to stay operational after the last big clampdown on folks forced into work for peanuts. 

 

Along the side of the country road there are about 30 big signs that say "DO NOT DUMP HERE"  ETC,  and there are always piles of mattresses and tv's and plastic bottles.    With the packing factory,  I've seen hundreds of styrofoam coolers that were piled up and then they BURN them.    All of that nasty CFC  <deleted> goes flittering up into the air...  Which is headed straight to BKK

 

 

I think,

   "Forgive them father,  for they know not what they do."

Edited December 22, 2019 by samuttodd

[Pravda]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:20 AM, villagefarang said:

In my experience, many of the people demanding perfection from Thailand and the environment are people who neglect their health on so many levels.  Many smoke, drink, are overweight, drive dangerously and have anger problems.  

 

I do sometimes have slight allergy like symptoms but have no heart or lung issues and I do modify my exercise and lifestyle depending on the weather and how I feel.  If I am wrong and my environment knocks a few years off my life expectancy, and I die at 90 instead of 95, like many of my relatives, I will accept that.  My mother smoked most of her life, only stopping in her later years, and still lived into her 90s.  One of my greatest worries, is living too long.

 

I am happy to let people make choices about their own lives and how they want to live but I expect to be allowed the same freedom of choice.  The internet being what it is, we mainly hear from the angry unhappy folks and I simply want to represent my own personal opinions which are somewhat less negative.

 

 

 

Thanks for the laugh.

 

You seem to suffer from abundance of arrogance, BTW.

 

I don't drink (ever), I don't smoke and I exercise in moderation. I am 46 and I go back to Toronto (the biggest city in Canada) once a year.

 

The difference in pollution is like night and day.

 

Sure, you could criticize me for my choice to live in Bangkok when I could live elsewhere with better air, but to say that demanding perfection from Thailand while Air is constantly in red is extremely ignorant to say the least. I mean, you have to be joking, right?

 

For someone who cares about their body, inhaling this <deleted> IS like smoking 20 cigarettes a day. 

 

Wait.... at least cigarettes come with a filter.

 

 

[villagefarang]

I didn't criticize you at all for your choices, but you turned around and called me arrogant and ignorant.  You are a real gem of an individual.????

[SoilSpoil]

15 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

I didn't criticize you at all for your choices, but you turned around and called me arrogant and ignorant.  You are a real gem of an individual.????

Seeing that you keep down playing the smog situation, which severly affects a lot of people's health, I understand why he/she might come to that conclusion. My children were getting sick of the smog in CR, and we had to relocate, costing us millions of baht. So reading that you keep yourself healthy, so that the smog doesnt affect you, and foreigners should not complain about this 'cultural trait', came across as very self centered indeed. 

[villagefarang]

5 hours ago, SoilSpoil said:

Seeing that you keep down playing the smog situation, which severly affects a lot of people's health, I understand why he/she might come to that conclusion. My children were getting sick of the smog in CR, and we had to relocate, costing us millions of baht. So reading that you keep yourself healthy, so that the smog doesnt affect you, and foreigners should not complain about this 'cultural trait', came across as very self centered indeed. 

I simply don't believe the complaining will have any effect but feel free to complain if it makes you feel better. You apparently chose to relocate and I see nothing wrong with that.  I choose to stay and modify my own behavior and conditions inside my home.  Longterm, I am hopeful Thais will find ways to deal with various kinds of local pollution and that worldwide humans will come to their senses but in the meantime we have to take responsibility for our own lives.

 

I support your right to do what you think is best for you and I will continue to do what is best for me and mine.  We don't have to agree but we can still be civil.

[Genmai]

On 12/23/2019 at 6:09 PM, samuttodd said:

I think,

   "Forgive them father,  for they know not what they do."

 

Can we please stop this racism of lower expectations? Let’s get one thing straight - the Thais know exactly what they’re doing and the repercussions of burning garbage/rice stubble/corn like no tomorrow. They’re fully aware of their actions. They simply don’t give a ****. The ones that do seem to care don’t care enough or care more about things other than health - namely money or a no-conflict mode of being which is sometimes masqueraded as compassion and justified by a perversion of original Buddhist values (but is really just another expression of laziness). Like everything else here the burden of responsibility is passed on like a hot potato. Stop playing their game of choosing to not recognize the importance of owning up to ones reprehensible actions. Don’t give them a free pass. They know what they’re doing. 

 

Would you extend the same compassionate scripture towards Westerners doing stupid damaging behaviors at everybody else’s cost? Somehow I doubt it.

 

Anyway, I think this typically Thai habit of blithely avoiding personal responsibility at the cost of widespread societal damage is ingrained in the culture to such an extent that this pollution issue (amongst many others) will never be solved. Certainly it will not improve in our lifetime. It’s infuriating. So many other countries grow rice, practice agriculture, etc. I’ve spent significant time in the Japanese countryside. Everyone eats rice 3 times a day. Yet not once in my many years there did I witness any agricultural burning.

 

[samuttodd]

racism of lower expectations?   

 

I am not racist,  I am married to a thai national.   Westerners used to do <deleted> like this all of the time.   We used to burn the fields at the end of summer when I was a kid in the Willamette Valley,  but stopped because we got tired of the air pollution.  We used to run diesel Smudge pots in the spring to keep our fruit buds from being killed by frost,  but stopped because of the smoke.    Now we use circulation fans and Propane.   Because out of towners moved into the area and screamed bloody murder when It was all sooty from the smoke.     It took time and lots of people making a fuss,   but the farmers changed because of it.  (The cost of the end product went up.)

 

It comes down to money here.   If the Farmers could afford to augment the soil,  then they could plow the old stuff under after harvest instead of torching it.   They are barely making it as it is.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by samuttodd

[Cheesekraft]

What sort of metrics is this graph using?  The air was rarely as good as AQI 165 in March, often going over 600 IIRC, wonder what happened? Does anyone have accurate records 

[dcnx]

On 12/18/2019 at 7:15 AM, Dante99 said:

Your suggestion that nobody cares about the burning is uninformed.  There are a lot of Thais who care about it.

No, they tell you they care about it. If they cared they would do something about it, be it protests, or helping to educate people on different methods. 
 

Doing nothing is the same as not caring. It’s just lip service otherwise.

[dcnx]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:06 PM, Genmai said:

They’re fully aware of their actions. They simply don’t give a ****

This.

[Bill97]

9 minutes ago, dcnx said:

No, they tell you they care about it. If they cared they would do something about it, be it protests, or helping to educate people on different methods. 
 

Doing nothing is the same as not caring. It’s just lip service otherwise.

In the rural around where I live, there is trash collection, recycling, no burning in the smoky season by 90+% of the people.  So they are doing something since these represent change from 20 years ago.

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, dcnx said:

On 12/18/2019 at 7:15 AM, Dante99 said:

Your suggestion that nobody cares about the burning is uninformed.  There are a lot of Thais who care about it.

No, they tell you they care about it. If they cared they would do something about it, be it protests, or helping to educate people on different methods. 
 

Doing nothing is the same as not caring. It’s just lip service otherwise.

It is your incorrect assumption that they are not doing things to improve the situation.  

 

I have seen people doing positive things for a number of years but I do not live in the city.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Dante99

[Ventenio]

Eyes are burning today, first time in about 7 months.

 

I have a feeling the smoke will clear and we can breathe again around June.

 

 

[connda]

A picture (or two) is worth a thousand words.  PM 2.5 already in the unhealthy region and 2020 is still four days away.  Five months of unhealthy air coming up this year?  Maybe...

 

From https://aqicn.org/map/thailand/lamphun-meteorological-station/

Doi Khun Tan mountain barely visible in the background.  These are maybe 7 km away as a bird flies.

[holy cow cm]

I think you are correct. Also people starting small fires to warm themselves.

[GeorgeCross]

how selfish, you would have thought they would have waited for high season to end..

 

it's only 5 days away after all 

 

 

[dcnx]

We had two weeks of terrible air last month too. This is the new norm. Be thankful for the privilege to stay here and breath it all in. It’s only going to cause long term health issues and remove time off your life. No big deal.

[Forza2002]

[Forza2002]

source https://aqicn.org/city/chiang-mai/

[jackdd]

They have been burning since a week or two already, but only at night, every morning i could smell the smoke and according to my PM2.5 meter the AQI was 170+, but over the day this cleared up and the air was ok.

Today they have been burning all day, so the AQI was like this all day long. Maybe the police is in new year holiday now, so they are not afraid even a little bit?

[dcnx]

On 12/25/2019 at 4:23 PM, Dante99 said:

It is your incorrect assumption that they are not doing things to improve the situation.  

 

I have seen people doing positive things for a number of years but I do not live in the city.

I have no doubt there are some people peeing in the wind, but at scale nothing is being done. It’s getting worse, not better.

 

Its December and it’s 160. Last year was one of the worst in recorded history. CM is usually within the top 20 most polluted cities on the planet, sometimes making it to the top 5.

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, Forza2002 said:

This is great. I’ve been looking forward to wearing a mask during cold season and now I can. Thailand never disappoints.

[dcnx]

On 12/25/2019 at 2:12 PM, Bill97 said:

In the rural around where I live, there is trash collection, recycling, no burning in the smoky season by 90+% of the people.  So they are doing something since these represent change from 20 years ago.

In the city where I live it’s the opposite when it comes to burning. Everyone burns, all year. 
 

I don’t care about trash collection, that’s not causing me to wear a mask today unless the trash is on fire. We also have excellent trash collection but it doesn’t stop almost all of the neighbors from burning like they are getting paid for it.

 

Look at the AQI right now. It’s 160 in December. Tell me with a straight face that things are improving. 

[dcnx]

18 minutes ago, jackdd said:

They have been burning since a week or two already, but only at night, every morning i could smell the smoke and according to my PM2.5 meter the AQI was 170+, but over the day this cleared up and the air was ok.

Today they have been burning all day, so the AQI was like this all day long. Maybe the police is in new year holiday now, so they are not afraid even a little bit?

They are always burning near us. It’s usually impossible to open the windows and enjoy clean air when we have it. The strong smell of burning plastic comes right in the moment we do. We’ve had to add extra seals to our doors and windows to stop it from coming in even when they are closed.