EssilorLuxottica discovers costly fraud at Thai plant

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

27 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Also did you notice that in restaurants the staff is never allowed to carry a wallet? And how IKEA handles it with their payment machines?

 

The wife and I were at ICONSiam for the first time over the weekend, and stopped to buy some bread from a small farang shop that was selling in a table-top setting there. The payment method was the strangest I've ever seen in Thailand.

 

There was a pair of electronic machines on the counter there. The buyer had to put their paper money into a slot that recorded the amount, and then the companion machine next to it spit out the change in terms of paper bills and coin.

 

And yet the farang guy running the bakery counter was there handling transactions himself -- not leaving that to the couple of Thai staff working with him. So it left me wondering, were the payment machines his/his company's own choice, or was it required by ICONSiam to ensure they were getting their fair share cut of retail proceeds?

 

The upshot being, cash going in and going out never touched human hands.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Foreign owned company. Local Thai management.

 

A rip-off opportunity ripe for the taking.... Someone out there was thinking, "they've got money to burn. They're farangs. Won't even notice a couple hundred million dollars missing!"

 

The senior management were expats a few years ago for sure, French / Belgian.

 

That was before the merger. Don't know what changes came after that.

 

Most companies have three way matching, including separation of duties, to try and ensure fictitious supplier payments can't be made. No idea what systems where in operation but clearly not working properly.

 

 

[tandor]

6 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

So who is driving around in a new Ferrari or Lamborghini and wearing Oakley or Ray-Ban sunglasses?

 

$213 million ???!!! 

...you can do anything and get away with it if wearing mirror lenses.

[Lacessit]

I am wondering what internal and external auditors were doing while this went on. Asleep at the wheel, or part of the scam?

[jastheace]

4 hours ago, cnx101 said:

I think Bobin was joking haha

i know he was. i just wanted 'in' on the joke. to steal the limelight.

[Kasset Tak]

8 hours ago, fruitman said:

I'm amazed that i haven't seen Raybans in thailand who were made in the real factory on sunday.

 

See that from many brands, also from vietnam/cambodia....they are b-choice or sunday products for a much lower price.

Try going to and optician on the country side, they charge a 10th of the price for frames compared to downtown Bangkok and tourist areas... why buy a frame that has passed QC and pay 4000 when you can get a frame that have not passed QC and pay 400?!

 

[Borzandy]

13 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

How about arrested and charged with fraud ? 

In Thailand, cannot target influential people ...

[StayinThailand2much]

The pitfalls of producing quality products in third-world countries...

 

At least they are not the first ones to find out that producing in Thailand is not as cheap as it seemed at first.

[impulse]

9 hours ago, fruitman said:

Yes Raybans are very expensive in thailand but not in the USA....just ask a friend to bring them...

 

Or cut out the middleman and order them direct from China.

 

[fruitman]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

11 hours ago, fruitman said:

Yes Raybans are very expensive in thailand but not in the USA....just ask a friend to bring them...

 

Or cut out the middleman and order them direct from China.

 

How can you buy a real rayban directly from china? on alibaba or so?

[impulse]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

3 hours ago, impulse said:

13 hours ago, fruitman said:

Yes Raybans are very expensive in thailand but not in the USA....just ask a friend to bring them...

Or cut out the middleman and order them direct from China.

How can you buy a real rayban directly from china? on alibaba or so?

 

You're assuming that the low cost Raybans from the USA are real...

 

[fruitman]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

You're assuming that the low cost Raybans from the USA are real...

 

Are they not real?

 

I bought  cheap Serengeti sunglasses from the US, the box was very crappy but the glasses are fine...don't know if they are real.

 

But where can we buy real ones direct from china?

[Ventenio]

Fraud is defined by the home country.  It might be a normal practice.  Look at the Philippines, you can now murder someone and then say they are involved in drugs.  no trial, nothing.  no charges.  move on.  Well, not every country is that crazy.  In other countries, sex for 100 baht and the hotel person smiles and shows you a room.  well, that's not allowed in every country.  fraud??   this is business.   if some overpriced glasses company that controls all glasses and makes them for 1 dollar and sells them for 200 gets mad, too bad.  i would fine them 300 million for defamation.  

[mikebell]

On 12/31/2019 at 7:08 AM, RichardColeman said:

How about arrested and charged with fraud ? 

Totally agree - presumably the Thai police are working night and day to pull in the suspects to extort their share of the loot?

[lordblackader]

Couldn't happen to a nicer company. 

[elliss]

On 12/31/2019 at 12:36 PM, Mavideol said:

correct, no corruption here, nobody cheats here.... just the way of doing business in Thailand

 

     Yep ,   it,s  their Country , we are just visitors .

           Go  with the flow ..

 

[ParkerN]

2 hours ago, elliss said:

 

     Yep ,   it,s  their Country , we are just visitors .

           Go  with the flow ..

 

And we'll just ignore the fact that consumers in more honest countries (well, slightly more honest countries) tend not to like Thailand's version of corruption and exploitation very much - shall we?

 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by ParkerN

[smutcakes]

On 12/31/2019 at 1:10 PM, shy coconut said:

It isn't unusual for a foreign owned company based in Thailand to have Europeans (in this

case) working at the top level here, therefore being "local" rather than based in Europe.

 

I may well be wrong, of course, but it doesn't state the nationality of the people involved 

in the the fraud, and has very little by the the way of information in the dramatic headline.

You are correct. Essilor have many foreign management based in Thailand, but its much fun to automatically bash the Thais... Yawn

[lonewolf99]

Nothing new here....Samsonite eventually found out the hard way that Sundays were for the black market sales production that went out the back door.

 

The biggest rip off was Carlsberg lager. You only get Chang because they stole the whole operation from Carlsberg. They only promoted Chang and the brewing standards of "the best beer in the world" went down the pan. 

 

Carlsberg pulled out of the "partnership" with Chang who then turned round and claimed 2.5 billion US dollar in damages !!!. 

 

And many people still turned up in this country and think they can do business here.

 

If the local society is all based on "Face" why do they keep making a complete "<deleted>" of themselves on a global scale?

 

 

 

[ParkerN]

17 minutes ago, lonewolf99 said:

Nothing new here....Samsonite eventually found out the hard way that Sundays were for the black market sales production that went out the back door.

 

The biggest rip off was Carlsberg lager. You only get Chang because they stole the whole operation from Carlsberg. They only promoted Chang and the brewing standards of "the best beer in the world" went down the pan. 

 

Carlsberg pulled out of the "partnership" with Chang who then turned round and claimed 2.5 billion US dollar in damages !!!. 

 

And many people still turned up in this country and think they can do business here.

 

If the local society is all based on "Face" why do they keep making a complete "<deleted>" of themselves on a global scale?

 

 

 

Well, that wheel is turning and increasingly, people are learning that it's a liability to be Thai or to for a business to be based in Thailand. Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey.

 

The problem is that most businesses based in Thailand are bound by the Thai culture, and increasingly, the Thai culture is seen as a business liability. In addition, many prominent Thai businesses have succeeded in Thailand on the back of very low labour costs, and this business environment does not exist in the majority of 1st world countries. Which is a major reason why Thai companies which become ambitious and believe the 'you're wonderful' propaganda fail when relocated internationally. One more reason why the amartya will not let Prayuth off their hook, come what may.

 

It's a problem to which there is no solution. In order to be welcomed (or even received) overseas, Thailand needs an amity agreement such as the one the USA has with it. But with 'foreigners' not being allowed to own land (a mediaeval throwback based on fear and the need to maintain a series of pretences), foreign business is increasingly being diverted to other SE Asian countries (Vietnam springs to mind). The day will come and, old as I am, I expect to see it, when Thailand lapses back into the business stone age and is regarded as a pariah in the international community (half-way there already). IMHO, there are dark days ahead and Thais can expect to begin reaping what they have sown in self-interest, bigotry, ignorance and stupidity, no further in the future than the next 20 years.

 

So there.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by ParkerN

[happy chappie]

My club master ray bans were 3,900b in the uk.the same ones here are 9,600b in top cheroen opticians.im just scratching my head why such a difference in price when they are produced here so should not be liable to all the import duties and taxes.

[fruitman]

11 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

My club master ray bans were 3,900b in the uk.the same ones here are 9,600b in top cheroen opticians.im just scratching my head why such a difference in price when they are produced here so should not be liable to all the import duties and taxes.

6300 on lazada

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/catalog/?spm=a2o4m.home.search.8.1125515fZFESpc&q=rayban clubmaster 49&_keyori=ss&clickTrackInfo=textId--340322568730045676__abId--154857__pvid--dbacc34e-51e8-450f-8e20-b3875c1aaefd&from=suggest_normal&sugg=rayban clubmaster 49_6_1

 

92 euro on amazon.de but there are also more expensive clubmasters from aluminium......https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00346VLGE/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_nl_NL=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=rayban+clubmaster&qid=1577884642&sr=8-5

Edited January 1, 2020 by fruitman

[chama]

On 12/30/2019 at 7:08 PM, RichardColeman said:

How about arrested and charged with fraud ? 

For doing business as usual?

[elliss]

4 hours ago, ParkerN said:

And we'll just ignore the fact that consumers in more honest countries (well, slightly more honest countries) tend not to like Thailand's version of corruption and exploitation very much - shall we?

 

 

 

           What can farlangs / aliens ,  do about it .? 

           Set up a petition , and post it to the Junta . and have your visa extensions cancelled.

            Just Wai and smile .  Welcome to Thailand ...

 

              

Edited January 1, 2020 by elliss

[Happy Grumpy]

The Thai branch starting to sell identical glasses called 'Lay Ban' by 2021.

[impulse]

6 hours ago, lonewolf99 said:

Nothing new here....Samsonite eventually found out the hard way that Sundays were for the black market sales production that went out the back door.

 

Common phenomena referred to as 4th shift products.  After the western oversight goes home for the night or the weekend, they crank up production and it's all boxed up and shipped out before the sleepy, often hungover westerners return the next day.

 

Often perpetrated with elaborate dinners, karaoke and hookers posing as girlfriends who are paid to keep the westerners away from the factory as much as possible.  It used to astound me to see western inspectors arrive after a 20-30 hour journey and spend less than half a day "inspecting" before getting lost for 2-3 weeks in the scheme.  Of course, they wrote glowing reports to management back home.  Aside from the smile on their face from so much sex, they couldn't tell you what happened in the factory they were inspecting.

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by impulse

[ParkerN]

8 hours ago, happy chappie said:

My club master ray bans were 3,900b in the uk.the same ones here are 9,600b in top cheroen opticians.im just scratching my head why such a difference in price when they are produced here so should not be liable to all the import duties and taxes.

Easy answer, Look at the corporate structure, and figure out who has been authorising the Company to make huge mark ups. Part of the price of doing business in Thailand is the 'donation' requirement. Kickbacks abound, its the natural order of things. Go further, and look at the price of vehicles manufactured and sold in Thailand and ask 'why is it so?' It's so because any company wanting to do business in Thailand is offered protection, but that costs, and the price is measured in millions of baht being 'donated'.

 

Look at the way the mafia functions in the USA; it's an arrangement whereby families are given 'franchises' and a percentage of the profits are sent up the tree to those awarding the franchises. Same same.

[ParkerN]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Common phenomena referred to as 4th shift products.  After the western oversight goes home for the night or the weekend, they crank up production and it's all boxed up and shipped out before the sleepy, often hungover westerners return the next day.

 

Often perpetrated with elaborate dinners, karaoke and hookers posing as girlfriends who are paid to keep the westerners away from the factory as much as possible.  It used to astound me to see western inspectors arrive after a 20-30 hour journey and spend less than half a day "inspecting" before getting lost for 2-3 weeks in the scheme.  Of course, they wrote glowing reports to management back home.  Aside from the smile on their face from so much sex, they couldn't tell you what happened in the factory they were inspecting.

 

Some years ago, I went to the Night Market in BKK (since closed so the rents could be put up), and was astonished to be told that many of the 'fake' Louis Vuitton bags there were actually genuine and were delivered by regular corporate trucks. Maybe true, maybe not true, but if it was untrue, it was at least plausible. Same thing as you are saying I imagine.

 

Anyone who thinks there is honest business in Thailand is (in my opinion) delusional. It's all measured in grades of corruption and back-handers. This is why Thailand has led SE Asia in business for so long - they have dishonesty down to an art form. Of course, when something like the Tom Yum Goong crisis happens (vide 1997), then some 'corruption' is outed, but make no mistake, any money that was lost was recovered pretty quickly. so that donations could be resumed sharpish and back in the shadows.

Edited January 1, 2020 by ParkerN