2020: Crackdown on tourists working without work permits - 50K fines and deportation awaits

[shadowofacloud]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I mean your not suggesting its 1000 per year in total are you ?? irrespective of income.. 

That's exactly what I am suggesting. For 1k USD you get a work permit, which allows you to do remote work, provided you are not employed by a Thai company or sell services/products to a Thai company.

 

Else they can go and screw themselves, I will continue doing my thing on a tourist visa. ????

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, shadowofacloud said:

That's exactly what I am suggesting. For 1k USD you get a work permit, which allows you to do remote work, provided you are not employed by a Thai company or sell services/products to a Thai company.

 

Else they can go and screw themselves, I will continue doing my thing on a tourist visa. ????

Yeah name what county in the world legally allows you to reside there, earn millions and pay 1k usd per annum.. 

Stick to realistic suggestions when it comes to law. Breaking the law, evading and avoiding tax obligations.. Sure it exists all over, but in the context of legal options helps to be serious. 

[shadowofacloud]

7 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Yeah name what county in the world legally allows you to reside there, earn millions and pay 1k usd per annum.. 

Stick to realistic suggestions when it comes to law. Breaking the law, evading and avoiding tax obligations.. Sure it exists all over, but in the context of legal options helps to be serious. 

You misunderstand - I don't give a toss if such country exists. I've told you what my expectations are regarding a visa for digital professionals. They may be unrealistic. They may need some fine-tuning, it's just a general idea.

 

But... No such visa? Fine, will work on TVs. They start lynching people with laptops? Fine, will move to another country (provided I am not lynched on my way out). It's that simple - I don't care.

Edited January 6, 2020 by shadowofacloud

[LivinLOS]

35 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

With a VPN how could they find you?

Its very hard to catch anyone.. So then they create all kinds of more hardline and unfriendly border policies which then catch up all the other, non working legitimate visitors. Hence screwing it up for everyone else. 

Also its the point where many say its legal to do this, if it was 100% clearly legal, why the hiding ??

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, shadowofacloud said:

You misunderstand - I don't give a toss if such country exists. I've told you what my expectations are regarding a visa for digital professionals. They may unrealistic. They may need some fine-tuning, it's just a general idea.

 

But... No such visa? Fine, will work on TVs. They start lynching people with laptops? Fine, will move to another country (provided I am not lynched on my way out). It's that simple - I don't care.

Sure.. So your not a digital nomad, your simply a resident online tax evader..

Fine. Admit it and be done with it (I actually dont have a problem with folks who are clear they are breaking the law, its the ones who pretend 'the law isnt clear'.. yes it is.. The laws are very clear, just many like yourself are simply not prepared to pay the cost of legality).  

[Delight]

 I guess an easy target must be Farang  working on condo committees.

Unless there are 2 sets of rules i.e work output  by foreigners that the authorities like  and work output  by foreigners that they do not like.

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

There are more than that on TV, look at all the digital "nomads"

Are you saying digital nomads should have a work permit ?  Does China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Japan or South Korea require digital nomads to get a work permit?   Why is it in Thailand landlords do not need a work permit where some day trader does? 

[JAG]

6 hours ago, Moti24 said:

Will you be phoning the hotline?

A hundred times!

[BimBoon]

And yet a Thai reporting a Thai to authorities is almost unheard of. Maybe we need a hotline to report illegal burning which practically nearly all do. The laws can be enforced it seams as long as it's a foreigner involved. Other than that the country is virtually lawless. 

[CH1961]

6 hours ago, FinChin67 said:

Personally I would not come to Thailand anymore

But still reading/posting on TV ????

[shadowofacloud]

16 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Sure.. So your not a digital nomad, your simply a resident online tax evader..

Fine. Admit it and be done with it (I actually dont have a problem with folks who are clear they are breaking the law, its the ones who pretend 'the law isnt clear'.. yes it is.. The laws are very clear, just many like yourself are simply not prepared to pay the cost of legality).  

Well, not exactly. I am not evading taxes - I am paying them in my home country. And I am not actually resident in Thailand, as I don't really spend full 6 months per annum (IIRC you need to 18x days to become a resident for tax purposes) here.

 

And no, I am not a digital nomad. More of a digital expat.

 

The problem is not with my intent to avoid paying taxes in TH - the problem is with no acceptable solution to do it in a simple, cheap and efficient manner. Taxation and immigration systems are simply not keeping up with the digital economy. As soon as they start catching up, I will gladly give them my money.

Edited January 6, 2020 by shadowofacloud

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, baansgr said:

Still need work permits there...and isn't it max three months then have to leave?....or can you stay and work there without any problems?, 

If you are working for a company based in Vietnam, you need a work permit.  If you are a digital nomad, there are business visa available.  Americans get one year multi entry, but others get a maximum 90days, which you seem to be able to get over and over again once they leave the country.  It is not ideal, but less problematic than Thailand.

[TigerandDog]

Rest assured there are many. From my experience most of the foreign scuba dive instructors do not have work permits. God knows what other sports instructors are out there without them, let alone other occupations.

[uncleeagle]

41 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

Ill informed comment. You can work neither on a tourist nor on a retirement visa but you can get a work permit with a marriage visa.

Is someone on a retirement visa allowed to enrol in an educational course, such as to learn thai...or muay thai..or cook...or would immigration say they need an education visa and arrest them.

 

How much further will this madness go?

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, shadowofacloud said:

Well, not exactly. I am not evading taxes - I am paying them in my home country. And I am not actually resident in Thailand, as I don't really spend full 6 months per annum (IIRC you need to 18x days to become a resident for tax purposes) here.

 

And no, I am not a digital nomad. More of a digital expat.

 

The problem is not with my intent to avoid paying taxes in TH - the problem is with no acceptable solution to do it a simple, cheap and efficient manner. Taxation and immigration systems are simply not keeping up with the digital economy. As soon as they start catching up, I will gladly give them my money.

Paying taxes in the wrong place isnt your choice.. The start of Thai tax liability for active income isnt 6 months / 180 days, that is the start of thai tax liability for passive income (if remitted to the country in the year it is earned) for active income, income you perform work for, the tax liability starts at day 1, and thats why they use a work permit process to control it. 

So you, legally you have a Thai tax liability and legally you are evading and avoiding that tax liability. 

BTW nothing stops you going and paying income tax without a work permit. Get a TIN, declare it, they are very willing to receive. ????

[bbbbooboo]

Hmm... this is a good way to increase tourism. TIT

[CH1961]

1 hour ago, shadowofacloud said:

I am behind a VPN

Naive boy, with all the encrypted traffic to/from your IP you will be the first target. 

[yogavnture]

half the dive shops in ko tao???? illegal foreigners?

[Oziex1]

"Mom Tao" What no Big...... nick name wouldn't take him too seriously. 

[CMNightRider]

I think this guy is having a bad dream.  What western tourists would want to work in such a poor country for peanuts, when they could earn a decent living in their own country.  These people should focus their attention on hunting down real criminals, and stop harassing tourists, and 90 day or even the dangerous TM30 violators. ????

 

 

 

 

[CH1961]

9 minutes ago, bbbbooboo said:

Hmm... this is a good way to increase tourism. TIT

Tourists don't working on their holidays ????

[shadowofacloud]

2 minutes ago, CH1961 said:

Naive boy, with all the encrypted traffic to/from your IP you will be the first target. 

 

LOL. Considering how many websites these days use https, I am sure that "encryption" would be the major factor here.

 

Thanks for brightening my day. ????

[Drax]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

There are more than that on TV, look at all the digital "nomads"

What if you have no employer nor tourist visa? ????. For instance owning an online business with passive income and stocks.

 

is it considered work to sell/buy  stocks and answer messages on phone while walking around? 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Drax

[Beggar]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

So I can't wash the dishes then? Yay!

If you have a bar or restaurant for instance I would not do it. Enemies or competitors might report you. A friend of mine in Phuket even got reported by his own (unhappy) wife. She had some photos showing him working. 

[Burma Bill]

Quote:-

"players and coaches"

interesting, and could be of concern for those associated with Thailand's Premier Toyota League!

[Muzarella]

7 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

How would this affect people doing charitable volunteer assistance for local schools and shelters? 

You will need to have a volunteer permit.

[SpanishExpat]

17 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I think this guy is having a bad dream.  What western tourists would want to work in such a poor country for peanuts, when they could earn a decent living in their own country.  These people should focus their attention on hunting down real criminals, and stop harassing tourists, and 90 day or even the dangerous TM30 violators. ????

 

 

 

 

Well...if Thailand really takes that seriously, they will lose most of those young guys coming for a 3-6 months adventure here. There are still lots of them and I can`t blame them for earning some money while travelling. Sure...it`s illegal by law, but especially teacher jobs from native speakers have benefits. 

But that`s typical Thailand....doing things without thinking twice. There could have been an exception for teaching job for a short period. And ,lets say after 6 Months, you need a work permit. Like I said, for most of them it`s a short-time adventure. The long-term underpaid westerner-teachers are surely not the majority.

 

Many people will argue what country would allow such a grey-zone? My answer would be to name a 2nd highly-frequented tourism destination where 70% of its population don`t pay taxes. Thailand is a special case in regard to so many things and has so much more important internal problems they should solve first.

Edited January 6, 2020 by SpanishExpat

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, Bournville said:

OK Thailand government. We understand.. Crack down on TM28 and TM 30, crackdown on TM47. Crackdown on foreign overstayers. Crackdown on no work permit. Crackdown on not enough cash upon airport arrival. Crackdown on no medical insurance. Crackdown on visa requirements. 

 

How about cracking down on things much more important in Thailand that would benefit all Thai people, maybe foreigners too, and create a safer, healthier and happier place to live? 

 

This sort of news is getting nauseating. 

 

 

Crackdowns don't last more than 24 hours anyway.

[yellowboat]

15 minutes ago, Drax said:

What if you have no employer nor tourist visa? ????. For instance owning an online business with passive income and stocks.

 

is it considered work to sell/buy  stocks and answer messages on phone while walking around? 

It would seem anything and everything in Thailand requires a work permit with exception of home rental.  That is the only sacred cow that requires nothing, probably because the elite would lose money if foreign landlords were to need a work permit.  To exhibit at a trade show, a wp was needed.  Not sure if that is still being enforced.  Thailand has the pettiest, most nonsensical labor laws in Asia.  You have far less hindrances and hassles in China.   

[PoorSucker]

6 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

6 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Most countries have special category visas for people temporarily working within their borders. Entertainers, sportspeople, businessmen, etc.

I believe Thailand also has these visas.

I think this is about people working illegally while on tourist visas. 

yes this is true, germany even has an eSport visa now.

 

Thailand has only the non-b visa with work permit, only this is excluded from having to need a work permit: 

There is a temporary work permit designed entertainers, sportspeople.